What do you think about vaccinating later on in life? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 30 Old 01-24-2012, 03:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am wondering if grown children get vaccine related injuries? I can understand not wanting to bombard a baby or small child with unnecessary toxins....but if a grown child is considering the military or extreme travel, what would be the proper way to introduce any vaccines and which ones should or should not be administered. Do side effects still come into play? What about immunity?

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#2 of 30 Old 01-24-2012, 03:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pattigirlny View Post

I am wondering if grown children get vaccine related injuries? I can understand not wanting to bombard a baby or small child with unnecessary toxins....but if a grown child is considering the military or extreme travel, what would be the proper way to introduce any vaccines and which ones should or should not be administered. Do side effects still come into play? What about immunity?



As far as i know, when you join the military, you are their property to do with as they see fit..this includes a barrage of vaccines, sometimes, experimental ones at that.  and i also conclude (from what i've been told by military members) there is no way to refuse them if you join.  Traveling? Well i would think it is up to  the individual to research what disease is where they are going to travel and make an informed choice on the issue. 

 

and lets not forget the teens who are being injured by the gardasil vax....

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#3 of 30 Old 01-24-2012, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I want to know if any side affects occur in teens or adult who receive their first vaccinations...as well as if they need as many as babies seem to 'need' and are bombarded with soon after birth. I also read one can get titers to see see if they have been exposed to certain diseases and already have antibodies against them.

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#4 of 30 Old 01-24-2012, 05:46 AM
 
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I am in just this position.  My dd is 13.5 and considered a trip to rural Tanzania where diptheria, polio, and other preventable diseases, as well as non-vax diseases, are in the population.  It was a tough decision to refuse her, but we said that she could go IF she got all the shots and paid for the trip herself.  That wasn't going to happen, so she passed the opportunity, but she is certainly old enough to START looking into these ideas.  She has never had a vax, but I think now that she is menstrual and nearly full grown, she could think about an adjusted schedule.  If we decide to do this, we will discuss w/her ped. how to move forward.He has been supportive till now, so I trust him to help us move forward with caution keeping her best interests in the forefront.

 

I hope that helps answer your Q.  if you don't have an MD that you trust or like, I'd find one.  It isn't an easy decision to do this, but it may be the best thing for your dc, that depends on what is happening in their life.


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#5 of 30 Old 01-24-2012, 05:51 AM
 
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btw - I have had many vaxs since being an adult, because I worked overseas for a few yrs. in Africa.  The vaxs are not fun, and they did have side effects, like sickness - diarrhea, fever and vomiting - but they were directly related to the illness contained in the vax., nothing else.  

 

I think it is certainly possible for a 'vulnerable' individual to negatively respond to a vax as an adult.


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#6 of 30 Old 01-24-2012, 11:15 AM
 
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I am very interested in this topic as well. I am sorry I don't have any info for you other than I am also considering vaccinating my children later in their years for travel. They are both very young now so we have much time but I just wanted to add another interest comment because this is a very good question to put out. If any families have already experienced this please share! :)

 

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#7 of 30 Old 01-24-2012, 12:00 PM
 
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Many of the vaccines are not needed later, because the cases of adults getting the disease are so rare. Or because adult cases have much milder reactions. Some are not even approved for indiviuals outside the ae ranges. However when it comes time then to have your own children, whether or not you are immune to these diseases can be cause for concern (possibly). But I don't know if there is any research on the side effects in age groups outside of the intended. I know the tetnus shot causes horrible reactions in my husband and father in law. I however had no problems at all. My guess based on my experience is that it is similar to children. Some have horrible reactions and some (really lucky) ones have absolutely no reactions.

 

Titering is an option when it comes to travel concerns. To make sure there is immunity to the dangerous diseases. That way you can skip unnecessary shots.

 

And we use the military as guinea pigs so they get ALL the shots including ones we will never even hear about 

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#8 of 30 Old 01-24-2012, 12:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mkreager View Post

Many of the vaccines are not needed later, because the cases of adults getting the disease are so rare. Or because adult cases have much milder reactions. 

 

Even though I question the safety and efficacy of most vaccines, I still disagree with your statement.  Many of the childhood diseases (mumps, measles, chicken pox, etc) are much more serious in adults than in children.  And rubella, while one of the mildest of viruses in both adults and children, can cause horrible problems for babies in utero.
 

 

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#9 of 30 Old 01-24-2012, 12:48 PM
 
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Side effects can occur at any age. How many vaccines are "needed" by a teen or adult would depend entirely on the circumstances (possible travel and any other risk vs benefit analysis that may apply

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by pattigirlny View Post

I want to know if any side affects occur in teens or adult who receive their first vaccinations...as well as if they need as many as babies seem to 'need' and are bombarded with soon after birth. I also read one can get titers to see see if they have been exposed to certain diseases and already have antibodies against them.



 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#10 of 30 Old 01-24-2012, 12:48 PM
 
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I am just beginning to vaccinate my kids, 7 and 4.  They will not need as many booster shots either.  My doctor is pro-waiting as well as believing in giving fewer vaccines at one time.  The only drawback is more visits will be needed to get them in.  But we have plenty of time.

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#11 of 30 Old 01-25-2012, 10:54 AM
 
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Even though I question the safety and efficacy of most vaccines, I still disagree with your statement.  Many of the childhood diseases (mumps, measles, chicken pox, etc) are much more serious in adults than in children.  And rubella, while one of the mildest of viruses in both adults and children, can cause horrible problems for babies in utero.
 

 


I was actually refering to the rotovirus in particular. There are a few others but as my children misplaced my book this morning I can not list them for you. I also said that the fact that you may have children later is a factor.  
 

 

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#12 of 30 Old 01-25-2012, 11:01 AM
 
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Also HIB, Pc and Pertussis. Which are most severe in the first two years of life. So yes you can still get them. If these diseases are a worry to you then it might make sense to get a child vaccinated for them while they are the most risk to get a severe case of the disease.

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#13 of 30 Old 01-25-2012, 11:58 AM
 
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Well, once they are 18, it's up to them and no longer my decision. I would consider some vaccines earlier if we were to travel, but we won't travel to places were polio is endemic or other diseases are raging (we travel to Europe only, maybe the US Virgin Islands, and that's it). 

 

As for the military, you have to get all the shots they want you to give, you have no say (DH is Air Force, so we know). Apart from that, reactions happen to adults. I had a miserable 6 months long reaction to the MMR (which was a requirement for the green card), I had no visible reaction to DT nor chickenpox (though no titers, even after 4 shots). Even as an adult, I would only do one vaccine at a time and draw titers before deciding. I know plenty of adults who received tetanus booster way too early and they had bad reactions. It's well worth checking titers before vaccinating, I always do that now, though I won't have to do it again for a couple of years. The only vaccines I consider for myself are DT and further measles (I can get that in Europe) boosters if necessary as I do not have natural immunity to that one and it stinks for adults to have it. I woudl never get another chickenpox one again since it's obviously not working for me. I'm not considering to travel to places that require yellow fever shots or other exotic shots.

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#14 of 30 Old 01-29-2012, 07:24 AM
 
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My kid who went to MA for college found that it was hard for him to get a religious exemption, so he chose to get the shots instead of changing schools (he's in Cambridge). He developed a fever of 104+ from the MMR, untouchable with ibuprofen. acetaminophen, etc. Not fun. He had first round at 8 weeks including acellular pertussis (special order only at the time), but we stopped at that point because he had reacted so poorly with the high wails for 2 days, huge swollen leg, and more.

 

My next kid thought he would like to join the military at some point, so as an older teen, we started in on getting him the minimum adult shots he would need for school. According to the above college, he only needed Td & Hep B, since he has a serious religious objection to MMR (yes, that is all the college required). First Td - no problem. Second, still with no pertussis part, he became shocky the next day, and developed an arthus reaction where his arm swelled up about 2x from over his shoulder to below the elbow. He had previously reacted to penicillin with serum sickness, which is a similar Ig problem. The doc ruled out the possibility for military service, and said he could not get more Tds.

 

Interestingly, my mother swelled up in the 1960's from Td, and she assumed it was from contamination with the horse serum, since she is allergic to horses. That is not an ingredient anymore - Perhaps there is something genetic here!

 

I delayed so I would be able to recognize problems if they happened. I am highly chemically sensitive with food allergies and asthma, and I was concerned that we would pass that on to our offspring. I have been assured that what I have could not possibly be genetic, but perhaps I am throwing a predisposition to Ig problems. Glad I waited.

 

 

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#15 of 30 Old 01-29-2012, 08:04 AM
 
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I would not vax a child now for potential travel later.  Save the vaxxing for when there is a need, not just a possibility.

 

To be honest, I would not go anywhere I needed a bunch of vaccines to travel to.  The world is a big place - I would just go somewhere else.  I can travel and see a lot of the world without getting a bunch of vaccines.  

 

As per a child - I would be disinclined to let a person under 18 get multiple vaxxes to travel to places.  I would feel some guilt - but not as much as I would feel if they had a reaction to a vaccine.  the closer they get to 18, the more say they can have in the matter - but they would have to prove to me (as the parent) that they had done some research on the matter before i would sign off on any vaccines.

 

As per myself:

 

I had a TD booster about 5 years ago with no issues.  

 

I had a MMR at 17 (don't ask - totally unnecessary) and felt horrible for the day, as did much of the kids I received the vax with.  I was literally hallucinating in math class.  I had no long term side effects - but hallucination points to either a high fever or some sort of neurological reaction.  Knowing how my body reacts, I will not do that vax again.

 

 

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#16 of 30 Old 01-30-2012, 11:15 PM
 
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My mother did not have me vaccinated as a child. When I was 15 and participated in high school sports, I chose to get vaccinated rather than continue to jump through the religious exemption hoops and after doing my own research on vaccines. I was fine, had no reactions. I lived in Kenya for 2 years in my early 20's and got many vaccines in a short amount of time, like 2-3 weeks max, including yellow fever and rabies. I had no reactions and there were no reactions among the 49 other adults of various ages in the group I was in, other than soreness at the injection sites. 


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#17 of 30 Old 01-31-2012, 06:41 AM
 
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 I had no reactions and there were no reactions among the 49 other adults of various ages in the group I was in, other than soreness at the injection sites. 


I am not sure you can say this with certainty.  I doubt many of my classmates knew I was hallucinating in class after an MMR injection.

 

 Moreover there are 2 types of serious reactions:

 

-Instant, often allergic reactions, which I am sure you would know about 

 

-a more long term reaction.  I know many will not consider long term side effects wrt vaccination when they are making a decision (because they are often unprovable) but some will.  The I'm Not Vaccinating forum is full of stories of people who believe vaccines might have contributed to their allergy or immune issues.  You would never know about that sort of thing.  

 

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#18 of 30 Old 01-31-2012, 07:15 AM
 
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In the military you are now allowed to get out of certain vaccines if and only if you have a medical history that shows actual proof that you should not get said vaccine.  Like the flu shot now has a list of ailments and allergies.  I'm so vaxxed at this point I don't even care.  Vaccines are the least of my personal worries. 

 

 

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#19 of 30 Old 01-31-2012, 09:16 AM
 
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Serious reactions to the MMR may occur as long as 3 weeks after the vaccine was given.

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#20 of 30 Old 01-31-2012, 10:18 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

The I'm Not Vaccinating forum is full of stories of people who believe vaccines might have contributed to their allergy or immune issues.   

 



Yep, I know. That's why I thought I might post my experience of being one of a group of people- and now that I think about it, there were hundreds of others in country who had the same mega-vaccine experience- and we have been fine. No I haven't followed up on everyone asking if they have lupus or RA, but we are in close contact. Everyone is fine. My experience in Kenya ended in 2005 so it's been 6.5 years. You tend not to hear from the "silent majority" on threads like this.


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#21 of 30 Old 01-31-2012, 11:16 AM
 
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Yep, I know. That's why I thought I might post my experience of being one of a group of people- and now that I think about it, there were hundreds of others in country who had the same mega-vaccine experience- and we have been fine. No I haven't followed up on everyone asking if they have lupus or RA, but we are in close contact. Everyone is fine. My experience in Kenya ended in 2005 so it's been 6.5 years. You tend not to hear from the "silent majority" on threads like this.


I think you're making an assumption that it IS a "silent majority."  There is no way to know what the numbers are for adults who had mega-vaccine experiences and either did or did not come down with an associated autoimmune disorder.

 

You say you are fine.  I believe you.  

 

I had a mega-vaccine experience and immediately came down with several autoimmune problems that I did not have before.

 

It really doesn't matter whether you are in the majority, or whether I am.  I'll even make the assumption that it IS a minority of us--perhaps one or more subgroups--who are reacting thus to vaccines. The point is, there are enough of us who DID have this experience to indicate a clear risk associated with vaccinations for adults.

 

Instead of saying, "well, I'm fine, and everyone I know is fine," it would be helpful if you could join me in encouraging, no, DEMANDING, that scientists, researchers, doctors, and, yes, the dang pharmaceutical industry START TO LOOK FOR THE AT-RISK SUBGROUPS.

 

The research is currently set up so that it is impossible to identify these subgroups.

 

Why do vaccines harm some but not all?  Is it a genetic predisposition?  Nutritional deficiencies? (We actually have some clues here--people who are vitamin-A deficient are at greater risk for measles complications as well as measles vaccine complications; people with vitamin D deficiency become glutathione-deficient, and glutathione is needed to excrete heavy metals in vaccines, like mercury and aluminum.) Are medical personnel not vigilant enough about making sure the vaccine recipient is not already ill? Is there a likelihood of complications if OTC meds are given at the time of vaccination (like Tylenol--some research indicates that this is indeed a major problem)? Is hormone balance or imbalance a factor?

 

This opens up a whole new can of worms:  how do you ethically study the effect of vaccines in at-risk subgroups if the vaccine is more likely to cause an adverse reaction in those subgroups?

 

Those of us who have already had an adverse reaction are sure as heck not gonna line up for more vaccinations.

 

 

 

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"The point is, there are enough of us who DID have this experience to indicate a clear risk associated with vaccinations for adults."

 

Really? Honest request, if you have research stating that adults who receive multiple vaccines have a statistically significant higher rate of autoimmune disorders than the rest of the adult population, I would like to see it. 

 

ETA: The vax boards are full of posters using their personal stories as iron clad proof that vaccines cause any number of diseases. I'm throwing in my experience as someone whose immune system is apparently not as touchy as some, who was vaccinated like crazy along with many other healthy adults, and had no problems.


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#23 of 30 Old 01-31-2012, 01:34 PM
 
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"Those of us who have already had an adverse reaction are sure as heck not gonna line up for more vaccinations."

 

"That's your call. I don't recall anyone saying you should?


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#24 of 30 Old 01-31-2012, 01:59 PM
 
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http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Hedi-Orbach/2010/02/04/vaccines-and-autoimmune-diseases-of-the-adult/

 

To answer my own question, this is an interesting paper. It's a lit review so it would be good to chase down the individual studies cited but it's a good starting point.


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#25 of 30 Old 01-31-2012, 02:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

"The point is, there are enough of us who DID have this experience to indicate a clear risk associated with vaccinations for adults."

 

Really? Honest request, if you have research stating that adults who receive multiple vaccines have a statistically significant higher rate of autoimmune disorders than the rest of the adult population, I would like to see it. 

 

ETA: The vax boards are full of posters using their personal stories as iron clad proof that vaccines cause any number of diseases. I'm throwing in my experience as someone whose immune system is apparently not as touchy as some, who was vaccinated like crazy along with many other healthy adults, and had no problems.

http://www.discoverymedicine.com/Hedi-Orbach/2010/02/04/vaccines-and-autoimmune-diseases-of-the-adult/

 

Vaccines and Autoimmune Diseases of the Adult

 

Published on February 4, 2010


Author: Hedi Orbach

Specialty: ImmunologyRheumatologyMicrobiologyInfectious Diseases
Institution: Department of Medicine B, Wolfson Medical Center
Address: Holon, Israel

Author: Nancy Agmon-Levin

Specialty: ImmunologyRheumatologyMicrobiologyInfectious Diseases
Institution: Center for Autoimmune Diseases & Department of Medicine B, Sheba Medical Center
Address: Ramat Gan, Israel

Author: Gisele Zandman-Goddard

Specialty: ImmunologyRheumatologyMicrobiologyInfectious Diseases
Institution: Department of Medicine C, Wolfson Medical Center
Address: Holon, Israel 
Institution: Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel-Aviv University 
Address: Tel-Aviv, Israel

 

"Infectious agents contribute to the environmental factors involved in the development of autoimmune diseases possibly through molecular mimicry mechanisms. Hence, it is feasible that vaccinations may also contribute to the mosaic of autoimmunity. Evidence for the association of vaccinations and the development of these diseases is presented in this review."

*************************************

 

Incredibly, while there are plenty of studies and case-reports of vaccine-induced autoimmune disorders in adults, nobody seems to have bothered to study the possibility that multiple vaccines increase the likelihood of vaccine-induced autoimmune disorders.

 

Or, if there have been any such studies, they are awfully well-buried.

 

It does seem to be a logical assumption that, if a single vaccine can cause or trigger autoimmune disorders, multiple vaccines increase that likelihood.

 

Then again, the current vaccination program is built on what looks like logical assumptions--and some of those assumptions (such as, it is safe to inject mercury and aluminum) are obviously flawed.

 

Bottom line:  more information is needed.

 

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#26 of 30 Old 01-31-2012, 02:14 PM
 
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"Those of us who have already had an adverse reaction are sure as heck not gonna line up for more vaccinations."

 

"That's your call. I don't recall anyone saying you should?



My point is, how are you going to ethically study the effects of vaccination on a segment of the population who has adverse reactions to vaccination? Especially reactions that involve autoimmunity?

What are you going to do, gather a population of people who are likely to have such reactions and tell them you want to vaccinate them to elicit those reactions so you can study them???

 

 

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#27 of 30 Old 02-07-2012, 01:00 PM
 
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I think a likely way the research will be done is looking for clues in those people's genetic codes as to why they had those reactions, and if/once the clues are found, breed mice with the same or similar mutations and test vaccines on them. Assuming that in this way you can narrow down the problem to one or two key mutations, a simple blood test would be developed for those mutations. Perhaps it would be added at birth to the panel of tests for genetic diseases, like PKU.

 

(I oversimplified the crap out of that, I know.  IANAG- I am not a geneticist! lol)


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#28 of 30 Old 02-08-2012, 06:00 PM
 
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I think a likely way the research will be done is looking for clues in those people's genetic codes as to why they had those reactions, and if/once the clues are found, breed mice with the same or similar mutations and test vaccines on them. Assuming that in this way you can narrow down the problem to one or two key mutations, a simple blood test would be developed for those mutations. Perhaps it would be added at birth to the panel of tests for genetic diseases, like PKU.

 

(I oversimplified the crap out of that, I know.  IANAG- I am not a geneticist! lol)


I think that that is one valid direction to take, but even without oversimplifying the issue, it's far too limited.


What about people who react, not  because of their genetic codes, but react to a later exposure because of previous exposure to something? Or people who had such a mild reaction to their first vaccines that the reaction wasn't noticeable, but subsequent vaccinations proved to cause increasingly severe reactions? In cases like that, the assumption is always that they had never reacted before, just because nobody NOTICED the reaction.

What about people who seem to over-react to adjuvants, and whose immune systems are triggered to react not only to the antigen in the vaccines but to anything else they might be exposed to at the same time?  Those people might not necessarily have a genetic predisposition to, say, a wheat allergy, but being exposed to a particular strain of wheat (today's wheat has been bred to have 400 times the gluten of its ancestors from 100 years ago) with an adjuvant on board may very well trigger a wheat allergy anyway.

 

There are too many variables.  Scientists want to look for the 1 magic bullet that is causing a problem, when in fact there is a whole firing squad.

 

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#29 of 30 Old 02-08-2012, 07:55 PM
 
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"Those people might not necessarily have a genetic predisposition to, say, a wheat allergy, but being exposed to a particular strain of wheat (today's wheat has been bred to have 400 times the gluten of its ancestors from 100 years ago) with an adjuvant on board may very well trigger a wheat allergy anyway."

 

Uh. Source?


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#30 of 30 Old 02-09-2012, 11:26 AM
 
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This is actually common knowledge/discussion among us celiac/gluten intolerant folk.

here are a few links you may find interesting:

 

http://www.trackyourplaque.com/blog/2010/05/emmer-einkorn-and-agribusiness.html

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703846604575447413874799110.html (look at the environmental links section at the bottom)

 

http://www.naturopath.co.nz/Articles/Digestive+Problems/Celiac+Gluten+and+Allergies+-+Part+1.html

 

http://surefoodsliving.com/2010/09/a-brief-history-of-wheat-and-why-it-is-making-us-sick/

 

really just google the history of wheat and you can read for days



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie8681 View Post

"Those people might not necessarily have a genetic predisposition to, say, a wheat allergy, but being exposed to a particular strain of wheat (today's wheat has been bred to have 400 times the gluten of its ancestors from 100 years ago) with an adjuvant on board may very well trigger a wheat allergy anyway."

 

Uh. Source?



 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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