Unbiased information about vaccine safety/efficacy - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 02-17-2012, 07:54 AM
 
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Thanks all, but I won't be looking here anymore for information.  No matter what it's all tinted with bias and I'd prefer to not be inundated with false information. 

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Old 02-17-2012, 09:40 AM
 
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Imackcerka…..that is fine.

 

If you find stuff out there that is genuinely unbiased, I would appreciate it if you share links.  You can pm me the links if you don't want to get into a discussion. 

 

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Old 02-17-2012, 01:38 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Thanks all, but I won't be looking here anymore for information.  No matter what it's all tinted with bias and I'd prefer to not be inundated with false information. 



Are you absolutely sure that biased information = false information?

I don't believe they're the same thing.

 

Am I personally biased to believe that vaccines are inherently unsafe?  I probably am--I suffered some pretty major reactions to vaccines myself, and my children had more severe reactions than I did.  I held my baby for 3 hours while he had seizures, beginning one hour after he received several vaccines.  Yeah, that probably means I might be a little biased.

Does that mean any information I have learned about vaccine safety, and pass on here,  is false?

 

I don't believe so.

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Old 02-17-2012, 04:38 PM
 
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Taxi this is not about you. Don't take it personal if I find your information unhelpful. After all it's not your work it's somebody else's.
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Old 02-17-2012, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Taxi this is not about you. Don't take it personal if I find your information unhelpful. After all it's not your work it's somebody else's.


Fair enough.

 

But how does anyone find helpful info, if those of us who post studies (that are somebody else's work) do so because we are biased, having had reactions to vaccines--but the studies posted by the CDC are equally biased (since they are done by the vaccine manufacturers) PLUS have financial conflicts of interest?

 

What WOULD be unbiased?

 

 

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Old 02-17-2012, 05:10 PM
 
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I don't think there is such a thing at this point.  And I don't care anymore.  I really don't.  I'm tired of searching this BS topic and vaccine issues need no longer sit in my mind.  I just watched my friends videos again.  His vaccines are eating his brains, but that's okay he made it to level seven on the chakra system, so he ate a bullet.  Those pesky vaccines won't be harming him any longer.   See where I don't care and I said I didn't care and you had to take it personal.  Get over it... in the nicest way possible. 

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Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post



Fair enough.

 

But how does anyone find helpful info, if those of us who post studies (that are somebody else's work) do so because we are biased, having had reactions to vaccines--but the studies posted by the CDC are equally biased (since they are done by the vaccine manufacturers) PLUS have financial conflicts of interest?

 

What WOULD be unbiased?

 

 



 

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Old 02-19-2012, 05:17 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WildKingdom View Post

 

Hmmm...secret, adversarial process, eh?  http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/opinions_decisions_vaccine/Published

 

I suggest you read the above website.  It has every single vaccine court ruling.  Every single one.  Hardly a secret.  As for being adversarial...how many other courts will pay all the attorney fees, so that anyone, absolutely anyone can bring a case with absolutely no financial consequences?  That's how the vaccine court works. 


Wildkingdom, did you get a chance to look at the document taximom linked? Here it is again:

 

http://digitalcommons.pace.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1681&context=pelr

 

This is what 3 compensated parents said in repsonse to this interview question:

 

 

 

Quote:

Question: Was Your Child’s Claim Resolved Fairly?

 

(a)    No, it was war. 148

(b)   DOJ attorneys were disrespectful and combative… The Compensation Program should be about compensation and not about defense of the vaccine program. 149

(c)    The attorney for the government was absolutely horrible. She was cold, insulting, and did whatever she could to keep us from being compensated. She pushed for C. to be put in a group home because that would be cheaper than allowing her to live with her family, and she argued against very basic home safety devices, like latches on cupboards, a fence for the yard, and a special swing where C. would not fall out when a seizure hit.150                                  (page 47)

 

That does not sound adversarial to you? (and these were people who WON!) 

 

Of the Ominbus Proceedings:

 

 

Quote:

The Special Masters did not simply conclude that the science disfavored petitioners. They issued scathing opinions that rejected and demeaned petitioners’ scientific theories, expert witnesses and treating physicians. (page 18)

 

and 

 

(the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit) ... the “judges noted in Cedillo v. HHS that DOJ’s conduct troubled them.” (page 20)

 

Adversarial? 

 

Looks like as of March 2011, 13,755 cases filed and 2,620 compensated.

 

Here is a screen shot of the HRSA site footnoted in the text (as of March 3, 2011). I would have gone to the site and looked myself, but for some reason any HRSA address is not working...

 

http://thenatureofreality.com/HRSA%20-%20National%20Vaccine%20Injury%20Compensation%20Program.pdf

 

over 2 billion in compensation/lawyer fees since 1989. wow! and this is all paid for by just the $0.75 excise tax on every vaccine sold. I wonder if there would be any $$ left if the court compensated the Omnibus cases (which it doesn't look like they would since the word autism was used instead of encephalopathy and residual seizure disorder, (this whole document is discussing that cases have been found where individuals were compensated when could have/can be diagnosed with autism but their filings were under encephalopathy/residual seizure disorder instead)).

 

 

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Old 03-23-2012, 06:22 PM
 
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Just found this.  Thought it was pretty awesome.  :D

 

http://www.vaccineriskawareness.com/Treating-Childhood-Illnesses

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Old 03-25-2012, 03:39 PM
 
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This thread has been really interesting to me.  I am on the fence about vaccines right now, and I don't feel biased toward either side really.  What I find kind of silly though is this declaration about what "science" says about vaccine safety.  I am a major proponent of science, however, scientific studies are so variable that I think its very premature to ever claim that something is for sure one way or the other.  For goodness sake, research can't even keep a consistent consensus on whether coffee is good for you or bad for you.  Or sun exposure.  Or dairy.  Or alcohol.  Or vitamins.  Or basically anything else we expose our bodies to.  Most of the time things aren't all good or all bad.  Vaccines are the same.  They are probably good in some respects and bad in others.  What we need is a real effort from our scientific community to make vaccines safer and more effective, IMO.

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Old 03-25-2012, 07:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margot Dawson View Post

This thread has been really interesting to me.  I am on the fence about vaccines right now, and I don't feel biased toward either side really.  What I find kind of silly though is this declaration about what "science" says about vaccine safety.  I am a major proponent of science, however, scientific studies are so variable that I think its very premature to ever claim that something is for sure one way or the other.  For goodness sake, research can't even keep a consistent consensus on whether coffee is good for you or bad for you.  Or sun exposure.  Or dairy.  Or alcohol.  Or vitamins.  Or basically anything else we expose our bodies to.  Most of the time things aren't all good or all bad.  Vaccines are the same.  They are probably good in some respects and bad in others.  What we need is a real effort from our scientific community to make vaccines safer and more effective, IMO.



true enough...has your own point of view convinced you to delay doing any vaccines until you have done more research? 

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Old 03-25-2012, 09:50 PM
 
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true enough...has your own point of view convinced you to delay doing any vaccines until you have done more research? 



Honestly I was blindly pro vaccine until at 4 mos my third son had a frightening but thankfully very brief negative reaction to his shots.  Since then I have gotten him one Hib and that's all so far (he's 15 mos).  So yeah, I am planning on doing a lot more research before I get him any more shots.  I'm considering asking my doctor to do a blood test to see if he has immunity from the shots he has gotten so far (if they have titre tests for all those diseases...), therefore making future shots unnecessary.  If I could do it over again I would have waited or at the least done the important shots one at a time until I had done more research.  I plan to BF him for at least another year so I'm not in a big hurry to get him any shots any time soon because I know he's getting immunity from me.

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Old 03-26-2012, 01:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

 

At this point you have three options.

  1. Vaccines are helpful because the interlocking grid of different loyalties, beliefs and backgrounds of the tens of thousands of people involved help to ensure that vaccine research, use, regulation and monitoring is stringently overseen and problems are quickly picked up.
  2. Vaccines are harmful and the researchers, regulators and health workers are too incompetent to see the dangers and disasters happening around them, but they can be detected by a simple check of the product insert when you have a vaccination appointment.
  3. Vaccines are harmful and it is a conspiracy. The tens of thousands of researchers, health workers, statisticians, ethics boards and especially regulators know that vaccines are evil, but they ignore it or actively cover it up and allow them to continue to maim and kill. They vaccinate their own children and allow them to be poisoned. Somehow this global conspiracy (which is a lot more successful getting people to work together than any attempts at world peace) has kept the secret and fooled us all except for the dedicated few. You probably know several of these evil people who are hurting your children.

 


Okay, I just finished reading this thread and just had to comment on this quote from Science at Home. My husband and I have always had concerns with vaccines. It just never seemed "natural" or safe to us to inject unknown substances into our body. When we had our son and started doing the research and became wary of vaccines, we were talked out of delaying/not vaccinating by medical professionals with the exact same argument as number 3 from the quote above. They just made the whole idea of not vaxing seem so silly and ridiculous, like, really how could the world keep doing something that was harmful and dangerous, especially if they know it's harmful and dangerous? So we vaccinated him for the first few months of his life. It just always felt so wrong to me. I hated letting them inject this into his body and the reactions after. I decided after the first three rounds of vaccines that I needed to re-asses and do more research on the vaccination issue. I read a lot and thought a lot. And then I came to this realization one day while laying in bed, stewing over a completely different topic (one of many that infuriates me angry.gif) , circumcision. This is exactly what the medical profession, the WHO, the government/law makers, and so many other people are doing with the circumcision issue. They know it's harmful, they know there is no reason to do it, and they are ignoring it or actively covering it up and allowing them to continue to maim and kill, just like the third point in the quote above ridicules. This was such a life changing realization for me. I don't trust the medical profession about circumcision, why would I suddenly trust them about vaccination? Why didn't I trust my instincts and why did I allow myself to be bullied and ridiculed into vaccinating my son? And then I realized it's not just circumcision, there are so many dangerous and harmful things that the world (esp. the medical profession, drug companies, scientists) allow to continually do harm to the population and children- unnecessary inductions/c-sections, formula pushing on third world countries (or even on moms in the developed world). The medical world is full of questionable morals and dangerous advice, why did I think vaccinations would be any different? eyesroll.gif

 


Breastfeeding, Cloth-Diapering, Co-Sleeping, Babywearing Mama to a Sweet Little Boy slingboy.gif

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Old 03-26-2012, 05:19 AM
 
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That's not how it works.

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Originally Posted by Margot Dawson View Post



  I plan to BF him for at least another year so I'm not in a big hurry to get him any shots any time soon because I know he's getting immunity from me.



 


Kelly (28), in love with husband Jason (38) and our awesome babies:  Emma 4/09, and Ozzy 8/10

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Old 03-26-2012, 05:46 AM
 
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http://kellymom.com/ages/older-infant/ebf-benefits/

 

 

Quote:
“Antibodies are abundant in human milk throughout lactation” (Nutrition During Lactation1991; p. 134). In fact, some of the immune factors in breastmilk increase in concentration during the second year and also during the weaning process. (Goldman 1983, Goldman & Goldblum 1983, Institute of Medicine 1991).

 

And your LO is probably well off nutritionally, recover from illness quicker, etc. with bfing.

 

But I don't think kelly1101 is wrong either... as far as I understand it, unless you had wild measles infection, you may not/never be passing significant measles antibodies to your baby. 

 

Quote:
protection by maternal antibodies seems to erode faster than previously estimated especially in infants who were born to vaccinated mothers

 

I don't really know much about this, my gyno just told me the other week that my nursing toddler would not receive any antibodies... eyesroll.gif I don't really believe that from what I have read, and regardless, there are other benefits. The ONE time she was significantly ill, bfing helped so much, comfort, hydration, nutrition.

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Old 03-26-2012, 10:05 AM
 
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I guess I was just thinking that if my baby got sick from measles or whatever, then I would be exposed to it too.  Regardless of whether I had been vaccinated against measles, my body will still have an immune response to the invading germs and produce antibodies, which I would then pass to my baby through the milk, helping him get over the illness faster.  Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought my previous immunity would pass into him through the milk and prevent him from getting measles in the first place.  I'm just saying that I don't feel a lot of pressure to make my decision on vax'ing further since if he got sick now my belief is that he would recover due to the breastfeeding (plus a family history of immune hardiness on maternal and paternal sides).

 

 

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Old 03-31-2012, 02:57 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Margot Dawson View Post

I guess I was just thinking that if my baby got sick from measles or whatever, then I would be exposed to it too.  Regardless of whether I had been vaccinated against measles, my body will still have an immune response to the invading germs and produce antibodies, which I would then pass to my baby through the milk, helping him get over the illness faster.  Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I thought my previous immunity would pass into him through the milk and prevent him from getting measles in the first place.  I'm just saying that I don't feel a lot of pressure to make my decision on vax'ing further since if he got sick now my belief is that he would recover due to the breastfeeding (plus a family history of immune hardiness on maternal and paternal sides).

 

 



You're correct. If you are both exposed to measles, your body will produce antibodies, just like it would if you were exposed to something else, and BFing would likely help him either not get the illness, or recover faster, etc.

 

Oh, and this whole "first world problems" is the newest pro-vaccine meme. It's just like "there's more mercury in a tuna sandwich" that went around a few years ago. It's a one-liner that is supposed to make people who question vaccine safety look stupid...as in, "why do you care about mercury in vaccines if you eat tuna", totally disregarding the difference in ingestion and injection, and not to mention, my 2 month old did not eat tuna. The "first world problems" implies, "only people who are privileged could worry about something like vaccine safety. If you lived elsewhere with real problems, vaccine safety would not be on your radar." Well, of course not...except they are.

http://www.rtiindia.org/forum/68092-rti-activism-madhya-pradesh-victims-vaccination.html

 


"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect." ~Mark Twain

 


 
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