Tetanus Risk: Immune Globulin Yes or No? - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 48 Old 02-09-2012, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
 
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DS (6) dropped a boulder on his finger the other day, so he's got a crushed looking fingertip (no broken bones, a bunch of bruising and what looks like a blood clot at the tip. Would you, if this was your son, get the TIG?

He's had no vaccines, btw.
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#2 of 48 Old 02-11-2012, 09:59 AM
 
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Are you saying he has a blood blister ~ like under the nail? Was it a puncture or just a bruise ~ collection of blood under the nail? There needs to be a puncture of some sort for there to be a risk of Tetanus...and for the record...if there is blood present then it is doing the job of cleaning the wound. What it sounds like to me is a collection of bruising and no puncture ~ so no risk.

 

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#3 of 48 Old 02-11-2012, 10:16 AM
 
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I have an unvaccinated seven year old and that injury wouldn't concern me in the least.


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#4 of 48 Old 02-12-2012, 06:00 AM
 
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Tetanus immunoglobulin comes in a multi dose vial, and it is preserved with thimerosal.  Since it isn't one of the mandated pediatric vaccines, it does not come in a thimerosal-free version.

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#5 of 48 Old 02-12-2012, 09:56 AM
 
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Tetanus immunoglobulin is a treatment used if an individual has already contracted tetanus, in conjunction with antibiotics. Unless the boulder was covered in feces, there's no cause for concern. Even if it was covered in feces, there's no evidence that a tetanus vaccination would prevent the disease either. Keep it clean and dry.

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#6 of 48 Old 02-12-2012, 11:01 AM
 
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#7 of 48 Old 02-12-2012, 12:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miriam View Post

I do believe that TIG is a human blood product. If this is true, then it would carry all of the attendant risks of a human blood product.



 

Those risks, PLUS the mercury in the Thimerosal.

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#8 of 48 Old 02-12-2012, 09:16 PM
 
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The tetanus immune globulin does not contain thimerosal, but it is a human blood product.

http://www.talecris-pi.info/inserts/hypertet.pdf

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#9 of 48 Old 02-13-2012, 01:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carise99 View Post

Tetanus immunoglobulin is a treatment used if an individual has already contracted tetanus, in conjunction with antibiotics. Unless the boulder was covered in feces, there's no cause for concern. Even if it was covered in feces, there's no evidence that a tetanus vaccination would prevent the disease either. Keep it clean and dry.



Tetanus immunoglobulin is primarily (in my professional experience) used to *prevent* tetanus after an exposure. 

 

Crush injuries are considered a high risk injury for tetanus exposure because of the potential for bacteria to be forced deep into the tissues and not subsequently exposed to air. However, as PPs have have already said, if the skin is not broken then that isn't an issue.


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#10 of 48 Old 02-13-2012, 12:14 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ma2two View Post

The tetanus immune globulin does not contain thimerosal, but it is a human blood product.

http://www.talecris-pi.info/inserts/hypertet.pdf



According to http://www.drugs.com/ppa/tetanus-immune-globulin-tig.html, it is contraindicated for anyone who is sensitive to thimerosal. 

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#11 of 48 Old 02-13-2012, 02:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

According to http://www.drugs.com/ppa/tetanus-immune-globulin-tig.html, it is contraindicated for anyone who is sensitive to thimerosal. 


I think drugs.com is wrong, because the package insert says it is preservative free, and doesn't mention thimerosal at all.

http://www.talecris-pi.info/inserts/BayTet.pdf

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#12 of 48 Old 02-13-2012, 03:59 PM
 
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Could be.  I wonder if there is more than one version of the vaccine?

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#13 of 48 Old 02-13-2012, 06:01 PM
 
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I found two brands - Baytet and HyperTET S/D, it looks like both are thimerosal free, but google brings up a lot of sites saying what you found taximom5, about sensitivity to thimerosal or outright saying it contains. Maybe outdated or just incorrect?

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#14 of 48 Old 02-14-2012, 04:15 AM
 
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Is it possible that thimerosal is used in production, with some remaining, but none is used in the final product as preservative (as they are packaged in individual, pre measured syringes)?  They are actually not required to list thimerosal as an ingredient that way.

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#15 of 48 Old 02-14-2012, 09:24 AM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

Is it possible that thimerosal is used in production, with some remaining, but none is used in the final product as preservative (as they are packaged in individual, pre measured syringes)?  They are actually not required to list thimerosal as an ingredient that way.

 

I think that might be possible, but every vaccine that is made that way lists thimerosal as an ingredient, with <0.3 or 1 mcg mercury.

 

 

 

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#16 of 48 Old 02-15-2012, 05:57 PM
 
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Good info to know!  My almost 5 yr old dd (unvaxed, numerous chemical/food/enviro allergies) got a hawthorne in her heel 18 months ago, and upon removal her allergist insisted on the tetanus immune globulin administered in an ER setting under 2 hour observation.  The site ended up being severely infected, which we cleared up using only lavender oil.  She had no reaction at all to the vax.  I appreciate knowing this info, as this is the route she'll have to go in the future if anything happens.    

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#17 of 48 Old 02-16-2012, 02:41 AM
 
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Just to clarify - TIG is *not* a vaccine.

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#18 of 48 Old 02-16-2012, 06:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katelove View Post

Just to clarify - TIG is *not* a vaccine.


Actually, it IS a vaccine.

 

From http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/vaccine

 

vaccine /vac·cine/ (vak´sēn) a suspension of attenuated or killed microorganisms (viruses, bacteria, or rickettsiae), or of antigenic proteins derived from them, administered for prevention, amelioration, or treatment of infectious diseases.

 

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#19 of 48 Old 02-16-2012, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I didn't realize there were any answers to my thread since I haven't been getting any updates. Sorry!

There was broken skin. It was a small cut around his fingernail...nothing punctured. His finger is STILL swollen with black spots on it (bruising?) and doesn't seem to hurt since he never mentions it. It is not red or infected looking....just swollen.

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#20 of 48 Old 02-17-2012, 02:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post



 


 



Quote:
Originally Posted by katelove View Post

Just to clarify - TIG is *not* a vaccine.


Actually, it IS a vaccine.

 

From http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/vaccine

 

vaccine /vac·cine/ (vak´sēn) a suspension of attenuated or killed microorganisms (viruses, bacteria, or rickettsiae), or of antigenic proteins derived from them, administered for prevention, amelioration, or treatment of infectious diseases.

 

 

 

 

TIG is a suspension of antibodies. It doesn't contain C. tetani or any other micro-organism.


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#21 of 48 Old 02-17-2012, 02:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katelove View Post

 

 

TIG is a suspension of antibodies. It doesn't contain C. tetani or any other micro-organism.



Antibodies are antigenic proteins.  It is still a vaccine.

 

vaccine /vac·cine/ (vak´sēn) a suspension of attenuated or killed microorganisms (viruses, bacteria, or rickettsiae), or of antigenic proteins derived from them, administered for prevention, amelioration, or treatment of infectious diseases.

 


The confusion surrounding the definition of the word "vaccine" was used to help railroad Andrew Wakefield.  He had filled out a patent for Royal Free Hospital for an injectible measles immunoglobulin treatment for persistent measles infection, which was therefore classified as a vaccine. Then Merck went after him, claiming that he was trying to compete with the MMR, even though his treatment had already been scrapped because it proved ineffective.

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#22 of 48 Old 02-17-2012, 09:33 PM
 
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Quote:

Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

The confusion surrounding the definition of the word "vaccine" was used to help railroad Andrew Wakefield.  He had filled out a patent for Royal Free Hospital for an injectible measles immunoglobulin treatment for persistent measles infection, which was therefore classified as a vaccine. Then Merck went after him, claiming that he was trying to compete with the MMR, even though his treatment had already been scrapped because it proved ineffective.


I don't think Merck went after him. I don't think any of that was an issue until Brian Deer was commissioned to dig up "dirt" on him.

 

 

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#23 of 48 Old 02-18-2012, 12:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by katelove View Post

 

 

TIG is a suspension of antibodies. It doesn't contain C. tetani or any other micro-organism.



Antibodies are antigenic proteins.  It is still a vaccine.

 

 


No they are not. Antibodies attach to antigens as part of the immune response. I guess it then follows that TIG contains antigens, attached to antibodies, but they are not capable of provoking an immune response in the recipient and a recipient of TIG will not develop an immunity to tetanus.

 


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#24 of 48 Old 02-20-2012, 12:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anastasiya View Post

I didn't realize there were any answers to my thread since I haven't been getting any updates. Sorry!
There was broken skin. It was a small cut around his fingernail...nothing punctured. His finger is STILL swollen with black spots on it (bruising?) and doesn't seem to hurt since he never mentions it. It is not red or infected looking....just swollen.


You mention it broke the skin...did it bleed? I would imagine that the dots you are seeing are likely blood blisters and *my reasoning* would be that the blood got to the area enough to create a bruise and blisters...I would imagine it would do the same for the cut. Tetanus is really an issue with circulatory issues ~ I posted previously in another thread regarding this question that you are really looking at such minute odds regarding contracting tetanus. Of the amount of cases reported each year...close to all of them are reported in persons over the age of 40 years old (in the states). If you need a link...let me know and I can go back and look up for you.

 


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#25 of 48 Old 02-20-2012, 02:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katelove View Post


No they are not. Antibodies attach to antigens as part of the immune response. I guess it then follows that TIG contains antigens, attached to antibodies, but they are not capable of provoking an immune response in the recipient and a recipient of TIG will not develop an immunity to tetanus.

 


Did you not read the definition of vaccine?  A vaccine does not necessarily provoke an immune response. A vaccine can also ameliorate or treat infectious diseases.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by katelove View Post


No they are not. Antibodies attach to antigens as part of the immune response. I guess it then follows that TIG contains antigens, attached to antibodies, but they are not capable of provoking an immune response in the recipient and a recipient of TIG will not develop an immunity to tetanus.

 


Did you not read the definition of vaccine?  A vaccine does not necessarily provoke an immune response. A vaccine can also ameliorate or treat infectious diseases.

 


I read it several times. I just don't agree that it's a good definition. I should have made that clear in my initial response. The Australian Immunisation Handbook offers this definition

 

Vaccine
a product often made from extracts of killed viruses or bacteria, or from live weakened strains of viruses or bacteria; the vaccine is capable of stimulating an immune response that protects against natural (‘wild’) infection.

 

which is a more useful one, IMO. However, we are unlikely to agree on this.


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#27 of 48 Old 02-20-2012, 04:04 PM
 
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Is is a federal law that ALL hospitals have TIG on hand?  

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#28 of 48 Old 02-20-2012, 04:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katelove View Post


I read it several times. I just don't agree that it's a good definition. I should have made that clear in my initial response. The Australian Immunisation Handbook offers this definition

 

Vaccine
a product often made from extracts of killed viruses or bacteria, or from live weakened strains of viruses or bacteria; the vaccine is capable of stimulating an immune response that protects against natural (‘wild’) infection.

 

which is a more useful one, IMO. However, we are unlikely to agree on this.

It's not a question of whether you think it's a good definition, or whether you and I agree.  The medical dictionaries define vaccine as I posted, as do PhD chemists/researchers.

 

The Australian Immunisation Handbook gives only a partial definition, which is certainly useful for the purposes of that handbook, but, nonetheless, it is an incomplete defintion.  You may not like it, but the rest of it IS a medically accepted definition.
 

 

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#29 of 48 Old 02-21-2012, 03:59 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by katelove View Post


I read it several times. I just don't agree that it's a good definition. I should have made that clear in my initial response. The Australian Immunisation Handbook offers this definition

 

Vaccine
a product often made from extracts of killed viruses or bacteria, or from live weakened strains of viruses or bacteria; the vaccine is capable of stimulating an immune response that protects against natural (‘wild’) infection.

 

which is a more useful one, IMO. However, we are unlikely to agree on this.

It's not a question of whether you think it's a good definition, or whether you and I agree.  The medical dictionaries define vaccine as I posted, as do PhD chemists/researchers.

 

The Australian Immunisation Handbook gives only a partial definition, which is certainly useful for the purposes of that handbook, but, nonetheless, it is an incomplete defintion.  You may not like it, but the rest of it IS a medically accepted definition.
 

 


Ok, fair point, but TIG still doesn't meet the requirements for a vaccine because it doesn't contain any "microorganisms (viruses, bacteria, or rickettsiae), or [...] antigenic proteins" capable of stimulating the immune system to fight tetanus.

 

The only vaccines currently in use for the treatment of active disease are cancer vaccines, which work by stimulating the immune system of the patient to fight the cancer they have.

 


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#30 of 48 Old 02-21-2012, 08:33 AM
 
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TIG is not a vaccine, anymore than rhogham is.
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