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#1 of 38 Old 02-15-2012, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I was wondering if anyone knows how to get out of getting a mandatory flu shot?  

I am trying to think of a way to forge something saying that I got one...

does anyone know what somewhere like Walgreens or any drugstore gives you after you get one?  Like as for paperwork?

Thanks!

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#2 of 38 Old 02-16-2012, 09:25 AM
 
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What do you need to get it for? Is it work? School? Depending on what it's for there may be ways to avoid it without resorting to forging things!


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#3 of 38 Old 02-16-2012, 09:31 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Its for work--and unfortunetly I don't think there is any way of getting around it...I work in healthcare.  Right now they let us use religious reasons to not get it, but not next year.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sieren View Post

I was wondering if anyone knows how to get out of getting a mandatory flu shot?  

I am trying to think of a way to forge something saying that I got one...

does anyone know what somewhere like Walgreens or any drugstore gives you after you get one?  Like as for paperwork?

Thanks!



That would get you fired if you were found out. Really fast. I find it abhorent that you would actually consider forgery to get out of something mandatory in your line of work.

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#5 of 38 Old 02-16-2012, 12:21 PM
 
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I would not forge things.

 

I would challenge them on it if you think it is unfair for one reason or another.

 

Sorry you are in this position!

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#6 of 38 Old 02-16-2012, 01:29 PM
 
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I don't disagree that forgery is not the way to go and if discovered would most likely lead to termination, but (leaving the scathing judgement aside greensad.gif) I totally understand the desire to go this route. If someone believes that strongly that doing something would be harmful to their health and they are given no options, no choice and no recourse should anything bad come of it - than I get it. I find it abhorent that institutions put people in this kind of position in the first place. Just because someone works in healthcare does mean that they should not have the same rights in terms of informed consent and objections on religious grounds than those who do not. Some places give their workers a choice to either get the vaccine or wear a mask around patients. This (while not ideal) at least gives them a choice. So to OP - I would also fight it to the bitter end. Good luck :)

 

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That would get you fired if you were found out. Really fast. I find it abhorent that you would actually consider forgery to get out of something mandatory in your line of work.



 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#7 of 38 Old 02-16-2012, 02:43 PM
 
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I would never never NEVER recommend forging anything.

 

I would suggest that you find a new doctor, one who is supportive of your position.  If you have ANY history or family history at all of autoimmune disorders (and just about everyone these days has such a history--rheumatoid arthritis, thyroid disease, diabetes, eczema, psoriasis, etc. are all autoimmune disorders), he can write a medical exemption for you.

 

Google "complementary medicine," in your city.  These would be MDs who also practice a bit of naturopathic or holistic medicine.  You can also contact a naturopath or holistic doctor, explain your predicament, and ask if they know of any MDs who might be sympathetic to your plight, to whom you can go for help.

 

Best of luck to you...

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#8 of 38 Old 02-16-2012, 09:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I actually do have a diagnosis of MS, which is an autoimmune disease.  I'll start looking for a naturopathic doctor that could maybe write me an exemption.  Thank you for the ideas everyone!

 

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#9 of 38 Old 02-16-2012, 09:51 PM
 
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You can decline for medical reason....but that the manager has a right to assign you to work where you do not have contact with patients. Rightfully so.

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#10 of 38 Old 02-17-2012, 07:42 AM
 
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You must find an MD to write the exemption. As far as I know  (although this applies to school - perhaps a private institution would be different, but I doubt it) they won't accept one from an ND.

 

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I actually do have a diagnosis of MS, which is an autoimmune disease.  I'll start looking for a naturopathic doctor that could maybe write me an exemption.  Thank you for the ideas everyone!

 



 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#11 of 38 Old 02-17-2012, 08:39 AM
 
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#12 of 38 Old 02-21-2012, 06:39 PM
 
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How about this: If you're in a line of work (especially if working with vulnerable populations), and don't want to comply with the flu shot requirement, find anither line of work.
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#13 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 01:23 PM
 
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How about this: If you're in a line of work (especially if working with vulnerable populations), and don't want to comply with the flu shot requirement, find anither line of work.


Yes, nevermind that research has shown the flu shot to be notoriously ineffective. I wish I could see the world in such black and white terms - maybe Id have less stress!
 

 

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If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#14 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 06:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by WonkyMama View Post

How about this: If you're in a line of work (especially if working with vulnerable populations), and don't want to comply with the flu shot requirement, find anither line of work.


How about this?  If you are in a line of work you love to do and are aware of some workplace health hazards,  who is to say what is to be injected into your body without sufficient proof(if there is such a thing, which i doubt) of effectiveness said vaccine works, not to mention the ingredients may be offensive in a religious way to some people.   Should i find another line of work simply because my beliefs do not permit me to inject those toxins?   

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#15 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 06:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by emmy526 View Post



How about this?  If you are in a line of work you love to do and are aware of some workplace health hazards,  who is to say what is to be injected into your body without sufficient proof of effectiveness said vaccine works, not to mention the ingredients may be offensive in a religious way to some people.   Should i find another line of work simply because my beliefs do not permit me to inject those toxins?   



Not to mention that it's not exactly easy to just up and change one's line of work and maintain the same level of income, especially in this economy, and just because someone opposes getting the flu shot for the above mentioned reasons doesn't mean that working in healthcare isn't their talent and passion.

 

Marnica's right.  Must be nice to live in such a black and white world.


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#16 of 38 Old 02-22-2012, 07:43 PM
 
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60% of people who get flu shot do not get flu. Another large % get it in much lesser form.

 

 

Healthcare regulations are there for a reason. If you do not want a flue vaccine, do not work with patients during flu season. There is plenty of paper work .

 

It is not about you, it is about your patients. Hospital are full of immunosupressed people who can be killed by flu. So, anything that can reduce flu among staff is done for the very reason of protecting the patients.

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#17 of 38 Old 02-23-2012, 04:42 AM
 
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I find it funny that following the standard logic, nurses and doctors have a better capacity than the rest of us to understand vaccines and communicable diseases, the risks/consequences, etc. And still some have objections and are being forced. I'm not sure, but willing to bet, quite a few nurses entered the profession when flu vax was recommended and not vax or unemployment situation.

 

I don't think too many nurses go to work with fevers, coughing and sneezing everywhere, with the intention to spread illness to their patients, I think most are probably better handwashers/risk reducers than the rest of us. Maybe the solution here is robot nurses smile.gif as flu isn't the only thing spreading around hospitals. 

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#18 of 38 Old 02-23-2012, 06:40 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

60% of people who get flu shot do not get flu. Another large % get it in much lesser form.

 

 

Healthcare regulations are there for a reason. If you do not want a flue vaccine, do not work with patients during flu season. There is plenty of paper work .

 

It is not about you, it is about your patients. Hospital are full of immunosupressed people who can be killed by flu. So, anything that can reduce flu among staff is done for the very reason of protecting the patients.


Would you mind sharing your source of information? I do not believe any of the bolded and there is plenty of science to suggest that the flu vaccine is not as effective as we are led to believe AND that the studies that claim it is very effective are flawed. If I were to wager a guess it would be that you have spent very little time (if any) exploring these facts. Here is some reading you may find interesting

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/11/does-the-vaccine-matter/7723/2/

 

http://www.nvic.org/Downloads/Jeffersonetal-BMJ2009.aspx

 

http://informedmoms.com/vaccFLUart_CalculatingInfluenzaDeaths.html

 

http://www.bmj.com/content/333/7574/912.full

 

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD001269.pub4/abstract;jsessionid=87F9B5AB71AB2C651B7C905756874B6F.d02t04

 

 

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Authors of this review assessed all trials that compared vaccinated people with unvaccinated people. The combined results of these trials showed that under ideal conditions (vaccine completely matching circulating viral configuration) 33 healthy adults need to be vaccinated to avoid one set of influenza symptoms. In average conditions (partially matching vaccine) 100 people need to be vaccinated to avoid one set of influenza symptoms. Vaccine use did not affect the number of people hospitalised or working days lost but caused one case of Guillian-Barré syndrome (a major neurological condition leading to paralysis) for every one million vaccinations. Fifteen of the 36 trials were funded by vaccine companies and four had no funding declaration. Our results may be an optimistic estimate because company-sponsored influenza vaccines trials tend to produce results favorable to their products and some of the evidence comes from trials carried out in ideal viral circulation and matching conditions and because the harms evidence base is limited..

 

 

http://www.jpands.org/vol11no3/geier.pdf

 


 

 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#19 of 38 Old 02-24-2012, 12:09 AM
 
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No one says it is 100% effective.   But any reduction is better than none. It is more effective in young people than in elderly. 

 

However, most of of healthcare workers are on the younger side. So, it makes sense to reduce rates of flu in healthcare workers who work with velnerable  populations such as cancer patients, infants, chemo patients and elderly.

 

Regardless, if you work in healthcare you have to follow regulations.   

 

 

 

"Adults 65 years or older in long-term care facilities

All residents of long-term care facilities s (e.g., nursing homes) should receive annual influenza vaccination, as outbreaks of influenza can be explosive and result in substantial morbidity and mortality among residents of such facilities. There is evidence that vaccination prevents respiratory illnesses during periods of influenza circulation for elderly nursing home residents. For example, one study conducted during the 1991-1992 influenza season found that vaccination was associated with a 34% reduction in total respiratory illnesses and a 55% reduction in pneumonia during the two-week peak of influenza activity (Monto, 2001). In addition, one study conducted in UK nursing homes found that vaccinating health care workers decreased deaths during periods of influenza activity during one season with substantial influenza circulation, but not during the next year, when influenza activity was low throughout the winter (Hayward, 2006).

Children

In a four-year randomized, placebo-controlled study of inactivated and live influenza vaccines among children aged 1–15 years, vaccine efficacy was estimated at 77% against influenza A (H3N2) and 91% against influenza A (H1N1) virus infection (Neuzil et al., 2001). A two-year study of children aged 6–24 months found that the vaccine was 66% effective in preventing laboratory-confirmed influenza in one year of the study (Hoberman et al., 2003). Only children who were fully vaccinated (i.e., had either two doses if not previously vaccinated, or one dose if previously vaccinated) versus unvaccinated children were included in the analysis. In the other year of this study, few cases of influenza occurred, making it difficult to assess the vaccine's efficacy (Hoberman et al., 2003). Children younger than 9 years of age who have not been vaccinated previously are recommended to receive two doses of vaccine the first year they get vaccinated. In subsequent years, they need only one dose. This recommendation was made because many children younger than 9 years of age have not been infected with influenza viruses previously, and a booster dose is needed for them to produce a protective immune response."

 

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/vaccination/effectivenessqa.htm#studies-differ

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#21 of 38 Old 02-25-2012, 08:31 PM
 
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This is what is called "one dog study"

Even the authors conseed that it is "exterimely rare complication"
 

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Alenushka, the 60%  effectiveness does NOT mean that 60% who receive the shot are protected. One would think that that 's exactly what it means (and so the pharmaceutical industry hopes), but it's not. 

 

What it means is that there is a 60% difference between the number of vaccinated individuals who got the flu (1.4%) and the number of unvaccinated people who got the flu (2.9%).    Even without the flu shot, 97% of those in the study did NOT get the flu. 

 

Obviously, if it were reported that way, very few people would bother to get the flu shot, particularly with the latest studies indicating a strong link between the aluminum in the flu shot and autoimmune disorders. Why take such a risk if the shot is so ineffective, and if you're unlikely to get the flu, and even less likely to develop complications from the flu anyway?

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nm

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I'm really sorry for your situation, OP.  In your shoes, assuming that you believe in ANY KIND of higher power that views your body as your temple and wants you to protect it....go ahead and claim the religious exemption this year to buy time for next year.

 

Meanwhile.....get a hold of National Nurses United, the country's largest nurse's union, to see what kind of steps to take next.  http://www.nationalnursesunited.org/

 

I know that they are opposed to compulsory workplace flu vaccination, and I'm thinking that this is the time to get in touch with people from your own field instead of MDC mamas.  Even if you're not actually nurse (you didn't say....???), they may be able to help you.  I know that in NYS, nurses banded together to file a lawsuit against the state for enforcing this abhorrent practice.  Good luck!

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#25 of 38 Old 03-01-2012, 05:24 PM
 
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Amazing.

 

Seriously. I am glad people in my institution care about patients.

 

Perhaps we should allow healthcare not to wash their hands or use gels. You know the soaps and gels are full of chemicals.

 

The patients population in the hospital is different. They are more likely to develop flue, complications and die.

 

 

Every year anywhere from 5 to 20% of American develop flu ( 5 to 20 people out of 100 will get ill).  Around 200,000  are hospitalizations and 3,000 to 49,000 die, ( FDA said.)

 

Those are not trivial numbers

 

 

 

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Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

 

Seriously. I am glad people in my institution care about patients.

 

 

 

 


How can one care about patients if they don't care about themselves first?

 

If someone feels that the flu shot is risky for themselves after much research, then shouldn't we respect their care of their own body?  I would think that someone from a former communist country would respect that this is a society in which the individual is valued.

 

A patient is more likely to develop MRSA in the hospital than the flu.

 

The numbers you quoted are inaccurate, regardless of what the FDA is trying to sell you.  I know a lot of people who say they have the flu, but it lasts 3 days with no fever.  That's not the flu.  It's a cold.

 


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#27 of 38 Old 03-01-2012, 07:49 PM
 
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Between 3000 & 49000...so they're unsure if FORTY-SIX THOUSAND people died of the flu...or not?  Does it not make you wonder why there is such a HUGE gap in those numbers?  
 

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Originally Posted by Alenushka View Post

Amazing.

 

Seriously. I am glad people in my institution care about patients.

 

Perhaps we should allow healthcare not to wash their hands or use gels. You know the soaps and gels are full of chemicals.

 

The patients population in the hospital is different. They are more likely to develop flue, complications and die.

 

 

Every year anywhere from 5 to 20% of American develop flu ( 5 to 20 people out of 100 will get ill).  Around 200,000  are hospitalizations and 3,000 to 49,000 die, ( FDA said.)

 

Those are not trivial numbers

 

 

 


 

 


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#28 of 38 Old 03-01-2012, 09:51 PM
 
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I mistyped. is is 30K to 43K

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#29 of 38 Old 03-02-2012, 07:56 AM
 
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I find this whole issue very confusing.

 

I would actively avoid going into nursing at this point in time, knowing vax status was a prerequisite.  

 

This does not do much good for those who are already in nursing and are faced with stipulations they didn't sign on for when they were first hired.  I do know organisation have the right to change rules, but this one is around body integrity, so it is a huge deal, IMHO.  

 

I do not know the effectiveness rate of the flu vaccine, I do know the flu vaccine is made up of best guesses concerning which flu viruses will be circulating in the upcoming year.  Forcing (and it is close to forcing as it involves peoples livelihoods) people to vax based on predictions of which flu is coming seems questionable.  It isn't even a certainty and some years the predictions are wrong!

 

My youngest was recently in the hospital for pneumonia (she is now home and well smile.gif).  She was in isolation as they though she might be contagious.  Half the ward was in isolation.  The nurses put on a new gown and mask every time they entered our room.  Perhaps that sort of procedure could be used to prevent the spread of flu for those who decline vaccines?  Another idea:  people (especially nurses) who are sick should not go to work!  We need to work on creating work environments where people feel they can take time off of work for illness without being penalized.  I do know people are often contagious before they exhibit symptoms - but still.    Want to know how my daughter got pneumonia?  A person who was actively coughing went to work, gave the cough to my husband who brought it home and gave it to everyone in my family.  In my youngest it turned into pneumonia.  

 

Even if the pro-vax side is 100% right about flu vaccines…I am not sure we should force nurses (or anyone else, for that matter) to accept the vax.  People should not be forced to do things to their own body that they are uncomfortable with.  It is a body integrity issue for me. 

 

 

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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

I do not know the effectiveness rate of the flu vaccine, I do know the flu vaccine is made up of best guesses concerning which flu viruses will be circulating in the upcoming year.  Forcing (and it is close to forcing as it involves peoples livelihoods) people to vax based on predictions of which flu is coming seems questionable.  It isn't even a certainty and some years the predictions are wrong!

 

My youngest was recently in the hospital for pneumonia (she is now home and well smile.gif).  She was in isolation as they though she might be contagious.  Half the ward was in isolation.  The nurses put on a new gown and mask every time they entered our room.  Perhaps that sort of procedure could be used to prevent the spread of flu for those who decline vaccines?  Another idea:  people (especially nurses) who are sick should not go to work!  We need to work on creating work environments where people feel they can take time off of work for illness without being penalized.  I do know people are often contagious before they exhibit symptoms - but still.    Want to know how my daughter got pneumonia?  A person who was actively coughing went to work, gave the cough to my husband who brought it home and gave it to everyone in my family.  In my youngest it turned into pneumonia.  

 

 

 


I'm glad your daughter is doing better!

 

My youngest was born at the beginning of the H1N1 hysteria, meaning there was no vax for it yet.  She was in the NICU and the only restrictions were that only parents were allowed to visit, so no siblings or grandparents, etc.  Masks, gowns, etc. were not required, just thorough handwashing before entering the unit, as always.  You want to talk about vulnerable populations - the NICU patients are it.  Yet visitors are treated with respect and no demands are made on their personal decisions, other than asking for common sense (no fever, coughing, sneezing; wash hands vigorously).

 

 


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