Call out to anyone pro-vaxxer who has brought up "first world, privileged women" lately…... - Page 2 - Mothering Forums
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#31 of 35 Old 02-24-2012, 06:02 AM
 
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ehh, what is it? 1/6 children has a learning disability of some sort now and 1/110?100 has autism? I'm not saying that is all from vaccines, but I do think vaccines probably play some part in those numbers, along with many other factors of our first world lifestyles and environment. There is a whole generation of children with massive problems. And actually, that is pretty serious for the generation of parents right now who are going to be faced with the baby boomers all of advanced age and a generation of kids with massive disabilities coming into adulthood. 

 

We have our own whole other set of problems not comparable with health issues in war ravaged, famine stricken nations. Should we not be concerned with the health of our children because someone somewhere does not have access to clean water? If you can tell me with 100% certainty that the issues children are facing have nothing to do with vaccination, and tell me what is the culprit, please do so so we can fix that I can go back to being concerned with something else.

 

I do no think most parents concerned with vaccination are really worried about the sore red reaction site, I think they are worried about severe reactions and other issues we are not aware of - long term health issues, autoimmune and developmental issues, etc. And, this is just my opinion, but people are reacting to the massive increase in the vax schedule - it just makes sense, that based on the basic premise that vax can cause severe reactions and death (no matter how rare), the more vax is added, the more severe reactions and deaths will result. Who knows the cumulative, synergistic effects the vaccine schedule may have. 

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#32 of 35 Old 02-24-2012, 06:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

 

Luck and privilege are hardly the same thing. I don't think that adverse vaccine reactions (or lack thereof) have anything to do with either luck or privilege - most likely its related to genetics and/or some environmental triggers (surely there is no real way of knowing). I also don't think that vax reactions are as common as people on this board seem to think - MDC is hardly a representation of society (any society) as a whole.

 

Privilege though, is related to a persons status in society. Luck, I don't know what luck is or isn't - I think people can make their own luck, and people can have things happen to them that are "lucky" and "unlucky" that an individual would have no control over, or the ability to prevent. I just don't think vaxes fall into the lucky/unlucky debate.

 

I think a good portion of privilege is  luck.

 

It was luck I was born where I was, to whom I was in a state of health.  I did not do anything to deserve this.

 

You are right in saying vaccine reactions are most likely related to genetics and environmental triggers - if we are going to ask parents to assume the risks of vaccinating we really should do a much better job of exploring what genetic and environmental factors are at play - and I think we should do a much better job of explaining that sometimes people have a reaction even with no known risk factors.   
 

And really, my whole issue with 1st world privilege, is that in the developed world children don't often die of common, non-vax preventable diseases (diarrhea, vomiting, dehydration, starvation) - the fact that we have access to vaccines, and the ability to choose/decline/accept the medical treatment that we have access to is a big deal. People all over the world have NO medical care, no access to a nurse, doctor, emergency hotline, or anything. We are able to treat common illnesses, and common childhood troubles (that have nothing to do with vaxes), and our children live long enough for us to plan for things like a delayed vax schedule, or to delay until they start school, etc. In the first world we have lost sight of that, and are "privileged" just because we have running water and flush toilets, and ready access to soap. It doesn't have anything to do with vaxes really.

 

Bolding mine.  I know that.  I think most people here know it.  I have no idea why some people feel the need to remind anyone (and it is somewhat assumptive to remind people of their privilege…what make you (general you) think they don't already know it? ).  Discussions around first world privilege may be relevant if anyone is trying to apply 1st world health decisions to 3rd world realities…but is otherwise irrelevant.



 

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#33 of 35 Old 02-24-2012, 06:15 AM
 
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You are right in saying vaccine reactions are most likely related to genetics and environmental triggers - if we are going to ask parents to assume the risks of vaccinating we really should do a much better job of exploring what genetic and environmental factors are at play - and I think we should do a much better job of explaining that sometimes people have a reaction even with no known risk factors.   
 

 

Create the grants and find someone to design the study and do the research. I'm not sure there is any way of determining what the effects of vax are, or who is at risk for adverse reactions. But then you'll be faced with the problem that an anti-vax individual funded the research, and if you follow the money that clearly determines the outcome of the research - so if it comes back in your favor it won't be trustworthy.

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#34 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 07:36 AM
 
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So, was this whole thread just to complain about vaxxers?  Was it not possible to debate the comments about it being a "first world problem" in the actual threads/ context where the comment was made?  Is this just to further demonize the other side?  I guess the benefit being that the "oppressed" in the world at large (the non-vaxxers) get to come on MDC and get aggresive towards the vaxxers, perhaps so everyone gets a turn at being the oppressor?  I can only imagine the challenges of being a non-vaxxer in a community that is not supportive of it- except when I come here and see the vaxxers treated the same way (with the obvious and important distinction that this is all intellectual debate and no one is coming at anyone with a needle here).

 

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#35 of 35 Old 02-25-2012, 11:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Ratchet View Post

So, was this whole thread just to complain about vaxxers?  Was it not possible to debate the comments about it being a "first world problem" in the actual threads/ context where the comment was made?  Is this just to further demonize the other side?  I guess the benefit being that the "oppressed" in the world at large (the non-vaxxers) get to come on MDC and get aggresive towards the vaxxers, perhaps so everyone gets a turn at being the oppressor?  I can only imagine the challenges of being a non-vaxxer in a community that is not supportive of it- except when I come here and see the vaxxers treated the same way (with the obvious and important distinction that this is all intellectual debate and no one is coming at anyone with a needle here).

 

eyesroll.gif  and  they started it  winky.gif

 

There were a minimum of 2 comment in the last 2 weeks mentioning privileged first world women.   I think there were actually more, but I don't feel like going through numerous posts to find out.

 

I did not bring it up in the posts they said it in as I thought it would be going further OT.  

 

If you say irrelevant and chastising things, and in this case it was multiple posters and repeatedly, it is reasonable to expect to be called on it.  

 

Last week a troll came on and said non-vaxxer are child abusers.  That was aggressive and demonizing.   To claim this is aggressive and demonizing is laughable.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

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