Vaccine Safety Curriculum for Medical Residents - American Academy of Pediatrics - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 05-03-2012, 01:13 PM
 
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That is a conspiracy theory.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:18 PM
 
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What?


 
 
 "Medical propaganda ops are, in the long run, the most dangerous. They appear to be neutral. They wave no political banners. They claim to be science. For these reasons, they can accomplish the goals of overt fascism without arousing suspicion.” — Jon Rappoport
 
 
 
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:26 PM
 
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Saying that doctors have just changed the names of diseases.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:47 PM
 
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That is a conspiracy theory.

And THAT is disrespectful, to apply such a pejorative term, rather than discuss the issue.

 

I'm calling attention to the fact--not "conspiracy theory," but cold, hard FACT-- that the diagnostic criteria for paralytic polio changed, and that therefore there was no accurate disease surveillance, and no accurate way to measure the effect of the polio vaccine.

 

Let's get something clear here, please:  saying, "That is a conspiracy theory" is not a valid argument against anything.  For that matter, neither is saying, "that is propaganda."  Both statements are pejorative and dismissive; neither statement actually proves or disproves the accuracy of the line in question.

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Old 05-03-2012, 01:54 PM
 
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nm

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Old 05-03-2012, 02:00 PM
 
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It is a conspiracy theory, you can take it as pejorative if you want, but that's what it is. It's a theory that there is a conspiracy to conceal cases of vaccine preventable diseases by calling them something else. It's not worth responding to further, because the nature of conspiracy theories is that all evidence to the contrary is part of the conspiracy.

There is a lab test that can distinguish between polio related afp and non polio afp, by the way. I learned that when I was doing some reading as a result of the thread about India.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:19 PM
 
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Natural immunity also fades with time. Herd immunity is also effective at protecting an unvaccinated infant, and without the risks associated with the measles.
Vaxxed moms still pass on antibodies, although not as much.

 

But, isn't herd immunity itself debated?  I recognize that methods of transmission vary, but if the common cold, for example, were on the doorknob, and I touched it, and then shook hands with you, and then you ate something...but then I went and washed my hands...isn't it true that you would quite likely come down with a cold, but I would not? 


"If you keep doing the same things you've always done, you'll keep getting the same results you've always gotten."

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Old 05-03-2012, 02:26 PM
 
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Unless you were vaccinated. The idea is that since germs don't persist in the environment forever having a large enough body of people be vaccinated confers here immunity because it makes it more difficult for the term to infect someone, therefore persist and be spread. It's like what happened at the super bowl. No telling how many people were exposed to measles, but because of here immunity they didn't come home and cause outbreaks there.

It depends on what you mean by debated. Herd immunity is not disputed by scientists or doctors, no, although there's some question how high vaccination rates need to be for various things for here immunity to take hold. To disregard herd immunity you basically have to think vaccines have little to know impact on diseases. But some people believe that, I guess.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:41 PM
 
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. Herd immunity is not disputed by scientists or doctors, no, although there's some question how high vaccination rates need to be for various things for here immunity to take hold. To disregard herd immunity you basically have to think vaccines have little to know impact on diseases. But some people believe that, I guess.

The measles thing from 1967 puts the level at 55%. When 55% of the population was immune from measles by previous natural infection, outbreaks would not occur. It's pretty interesting. I wonder if they were just completely wrong about what they were seeing then, or what #s in the 90%+ vax rate we need for measles herd immunity are involved with vax failure or wear off.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1919891/pdf/pubhealthreporig00027-0069.pdf

 

You know what... there have been a lot of conspiracy theorist comments in threads lately where all that was linked were primarily studies in medical journals, or medical opinion of phds, mds, etc.  so shrug.gif  

 

And on polio getting called other things... yeah, GBS or "french polio" 

 

Quote:
 
A peer-reviewed study published in 2003, using Bayesian analysis, found that six of eight posterior probabilities favored a diagnosis of Guillain-Barré syndrome over poliomyelitis. 

 

It's funny how the names or diagnostic criteria for certain illnesses/disorders gets changed when convenient, we see it happening even today.

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Old 05-03-2012, 03:42 PM
 
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They're not the same disease.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:44 PM
 
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I realize that, but it did not stop misdiagnosis from happening. 

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Old 05-03-2012, 03:55 PM
 
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I already said misdiagnosis surely happened, I just don't think they account for the drop. Unless there were suddenly 20-30k extra gb diagnosis.
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Old 05-03-2012, 03:55 PM
 
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http://www.thinktwice.com/Polio.pdf

 

prior to 1955: Polio, Aseptic Meningitis and Coxsackle virus infections are recorded as "Polio" 

 

after 1955: Polio, Aseptic Meningitis and Coxsackle virus infections are recorded as separate diseases.

 

Add in some GBS misdiagnosis.

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Old 05-03-2012, 03:57 PM
 
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What are the numbers for the other two diseases in those year? Do they account for the thirty thousand or so cases of polio that suddenly went missing?
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:01 PM
 
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There are some interesting graphs here too. Doubt you will like the source. There are graphs of Polio cases and incidence 1870 - 1998 and 1912-1970.

 

http://www.vaclib.org/sites/harpub/pol_all.htm

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Old 05-03-2012, 04:03 PM
 
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What are the numbers for the other two diseases in those year? Do they account for the thirty thousand or so cases of polio that suddenly went missing?

 

I don't know what you are referring to. I just wanted to point out that FDR was most likely GBS, since that is the most commonly talked about polio case in US history. 

and also that the way the "polio" was recorded changed at an interesting time.

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Old 05-03-2012, 04:05 PM
 
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Ono,, so we're only talking unsubstantiated speculation.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:06 PM
 
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Wow, those graphs showolio cases increasing as our population increases. I'm shocked.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:08 PM
 
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Wait wait wait, is that gray saying there were 10k cases of polio in the 90s?
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:11 PM
 
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Ono,, so we're only talking unsubstantiated speculation.

 

Some people like to talk about other ideas.

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Old 05-03-2012, 04:15 PM
 
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Right, I just wanted to be clear they were ideas with no real evidence behind them.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:19 PM
 
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Wow, those graphs showolio cases increasing as our population increases. I'm shocked.

 

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Wait wait wait, is that gray saying there were 10k cases of polio in the 90s?

 

Except that the population did not increase 4 fold between 1920 and 1950, it went from 100 million to 150 million. 

 

Yeah, I don't know about that. Post polio. I was just interested in the numbers of incidence instead a chart showing deaths. 

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Old 05-03-2012, 04:20 PM
 
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Right, I just wanted to be clear they were ideas with no real evidence behind them.

 

Evidence seems to be lacking in plenty of areas of vaccine study. 

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Old 05-03-2012, 04:23 PM
 
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Our population also became denser and more urban.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:36 PM
 
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but sanitation improved. No more sewage in the streets or tossing chamber pots out the window.

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Old 05-03-2012, 04:46 PM
 
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Fairly irrelevant for most diseases. People will still breathing and coughing and spitting and there was no Lysol.

I don't know why the increase, for sure, but I think it's not reasonable to think the vaccine had nothing to do with the sudden decrease, and more importantly with the fact that we have no polio in this country today.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:54 PM
 
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This is really interesting, I haven't finished the whole thing, yet.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2010/07/01/polio-and-sanitation/
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:16 PM
 
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What did you think?

 

This looks interesting too, but I haven't read it all yet.

 

The Age of Polio: How an Old Virus and New Toxins Created a Man-made Epidemic

By Dan Olmsted and Mark Blaxill

 

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

Part 4

Part 5

Part 6

Part 7

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Old 05-03-2012, 06:26 PM
 
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I thought he went off the rails after awhile, which is kind of typical for that website, but made some interesting points.

The thing is they did a randomized controlled double blind while nine yards study of the polio vaccine and it worked!

I have a hard time with things that deny the whole germ theory of illness and substitute it with toxins and nutrition. I think toxins and nutrition are important, but I just don't think we've had the science that wrong all these years.
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:27 PM
 
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nm - I think I should read the whole thread before I post….
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