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#1 of 81 Old 05-14-2012, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I had heard more than once @ 2 years ago when I was on Facebook that the percent of adults vaccinated in America was @ 2%. I have not been able to find any valid links, and I am sure the % has since changed, but I was wondering if any of you who are more knowledgable have also heard of this? Does anyone have any links? (The CDC website proved to be confusing and I question their data for some reason, but any links should be helpful.)

 

The argument that people often use to debate with me is usually about "Herd immunity", but from what I understand herd immunity does not exist if the adult population is not also vaccinated. (If I am wrong about that please fill me in.) The closest link I have found that states statistics is this one, (which happens to be pro-vaccine):

 

http://news.idsociety.org/idsa/issues/2010-02-01/index.html

 

"Only 2.1 percent of eligible adults have had the tetanus, diphtheria, and pertussis vaccine in the previous two years, the report notes, while only 10 percent of eligible adult women have had the human papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine. Just 36 percent of all adults were vaccinated against influenza in 2008."

 

 

Thanks in advance


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#2 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 02:53 AM
 
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Definitely a reminder to check what boosters I should get at my next Doctors appointment. It's all too easy to forget about these things if not reminded - that's why routine childhood vaccinations are so important in my opinion. 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#3 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 03:42 AM
 
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Most diseases that we have childhood vaccines for don't need boosters. So even though adults tend to neglect boosters we still have heard immunity for these diseases. Other diseases, like tetanus, the idea of herd immunity doesn't really apply to. For things like pertussis herd immunity isn't really established very well in some parts of the country, hence the outbreaks and the recent push for more adults to get boosters.
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#4 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 02:43 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Most diseases that we have childhood vaccines for don't need boosters. So even though adults tend to neglect boosters we still have heard immunity for these diseases. Other diseases, like tetanus, the idea of herd immunity doesn't really apply to. For things like pertussis herd immunity isn't really established very well in some parts of the country, hence the outbreaks and the recent push for more adults to get boosters.

So this idea of "herd immunity" comes with the assumtion that the adults were either: vaccinated at one time, OR they got the disease and recovered in order to be immune?


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#5 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 02:51 PM
 
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Yes. Herd immunity requires most people are immune one way or another.
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#6 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 05:31 PM
 
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Erinsuzy, Try this: http://www.healthyamericans.org/assets/files/TFAH2010AdultImmnzBrief13.pdf The report is from 2010, so it makes sense that you saw the news two years ago on FB. Scroll down to the second page for all of the data that you mentioned, which was compiled by the CDC in 2007 and is referenced in the report. HTH!

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#7 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 07:09 PM
 
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OP - this article speaks to some thoughts about herd immunity and adult population

 

http://www.thenhf.com/article.php?id=1975

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#8 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 07:17 PM
 
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There is no such thing as forced vaccination in the united states. Even in Mississippi.
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#9 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 07:19 PM
 
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I don't believe it's tue that "most vaccines" lose their effectiveness after 2-10 years. I would like to see the information he's basing that statement on.

He's also using radically different numbers for effectiveness than I've ever seen. 30-40%? Where's that coming from?
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#10 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 07:28 PM
 
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Not gonna argue with you Rrrrrachel, just providing OP with a link that was possibly the one she was looking for.

 

Meningococcal vaxes are what? 3-5, 4-6 years? Off top of my head, maybe wrong? Tetanus 10 years? cp, who knows, 10ish I've heard? MMR, 1 used to be lifetime, now it is 2 doses, and it seems sometimes pregnant women discover their rubella immunity has worn off so they get re-vaxed after birth...

Another CHOP page puts teens and adults as major Pertussis players, so their vaccines either didn't work well or have worn off.

Pertussis vax has been around since 1940's? I think? 

 

Quote:
Pertussis is unusual in that most children catch the disease from adults and not from other children....
Pertussis is common in teenagers and adults. 
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#11 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 08:56 PM
 
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There is no such thing as forced vaccination in the united states. Even in Mississippi.

Wrong.  My second child was vaccinated in the hospital, against written directions in his chart, and without my permission.

 

That is forced vaccination.

 

So is this:  http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/state-confiscates-newborn-over-vaccinations/

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#12 of 81 Old 05-16-2012, 09:04 PM
 
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This sounds like forced vaccination to me too.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1119/p02s04-ussc.html

"In one of the strongest stands in the US, Prince George's County, Md., orders parents to immunize their children or risk up to 10 days in jail."


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#13 of 81 Old 05-17-2012, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This sounds like forced vaccination to me too.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/1119/p02s04-ussc.html

"In one of the strongest stands in the US, Prince George's County, Md., orders parents to immunize their children or risk up to 10 days in jail."

WOW...  that is horrible. Where have our rights gone?

They don't seem to care enough about reactions, or else they wouldn't give so many at a time. We still don't know which of the 6 vaccinations my son received (at 2 months old) caused his terrible reaction.

 

Thanks for the links everyone. The reason I was looking into this is because someone was telling me that if it wasn't for vaccines, we would have disease "run rampid" everywhere. There really is not enough evidence to prove that. For ex. That CDC percentage of unvaccinated adults (link above) data compiled in 2007, says:

"2.1 percent of eligible adults (18 to 64 years old) had the tetanus, diphtheria, and whooping cough vaccine in the previous two years"

So then we are left the other 97% of adults that we don't know how many are just plain unvaccinated and which have immunity to tetanus, diphtheria, and whooping cough.

And if it is true what the Doctor says in this other link above http://www.thenhf.com/article.php?id=1975 that "at least 50% or more of the population was unprotected for decades" then the Herd immunity theory would be a myth and there would NOT be disease run rampid.

I can also see where this person got this fearful idea now, the same CDC pamplet claims that "vaccinations prevent @ 10.5 million cases of infectious illness a year and 33,000 deaths", but when you look at the source they give one person's name: "F. Zhou" at a 2003 Pediatric Conference....  (and there was no Dr. in front of the name). I think with numbers that large, we need more than this one person's theory. There needs to be more done for the concerned parents who are trapped under pressure between risks, yet we are treated like we are tossing around conspiracy theories or that we "don't care about the population" (I am not talking about here, just in general by the meaner folks). We are frowned upon for even questioning it at the Doctors office or elsewhere, like we are supposed to offer up our children like sacrificial guinea pigs and not cause a stink about it. Do you guys even realize how many parents are scared to death before they take their little ones into the doctor? I won't even get into it...    NO ONE knows how their babies are going to react...  NOT A SINGLE ONE. It is like Russian Roulette- who is going to be next, and if your kid is the lucky one then you get breath a sigh of relief while some other parent is left crying and questioning themselves and the decision they made. This is sad that we are put in this situation, really sad. Sorry for the rant...  I am just really burnt out.

 

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#14 of 81 Old 05-17-2012, 09:11 PM
 
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Rick Perry wanted to mandate Gardasil for school girls in Texas, 2007. Thank goodness his attempt failed.

 

Erinsuzy, I feel your frustration!  How do you know if your newborn/infant is allergic to an ingredient in a vaccine? Well, just inject them and wait to find out. That's how it's done, and it can't be wrong, because everyone does it.


               "Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses."

                ~Captain Hammer (j/k, it was Plato)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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#15 of 81 Old 05-18-2012, 03:43 AM
 
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How do you know if your kid is allergic to nuts? Or eggs? Or penecillin?
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#16 of 81 Old 05-18-2012, 08:00 AM
 
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That question does not answer my original question. If anything, it validates it!

Injecting a newborn/infant (or feeding a newborn/infant) with potential allergens, could result in an  allergic response. With feeding, if there is a response, it is a bit easier to determine the cause. If there is a reaction after a vaccine, it is often difficult to prove (with our current medical system)--especially when the majority of health professionals would deny any connection to the vaccine. If the response does not happen immediately, within the office, then you're out of luck buddy!

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#17 of 81 Old 05-18-2012, 08:03 AM
 
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Most parents are recommended to introduce new foods one at a time and monitor the reaction. Not with vaccines. Just inject lots of ingredients and hope nothing bad happens. How scientific!

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               "Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses."

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#18 of 81 Old 05-18-2012, 08:07 AM
 
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Most parents are recommended to introduce new foods one at a time and monitor the reaction. Not with vaccines. Just inject lots of ingredients and hope nothing bad happens. How scientific!

 

And even then, it's not recommended to start until after 6 months (4 at the earliest) because the gut isn't ready for food before then!


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#19 of 81 Old 05-18-2012, 08:07 AM
 
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I don't thi that's a fair characterization. I think if your child had a classic allergic reaction after a vaccine it would be fairly easy to get a doctor to acknowledge it. I agree it may be more difficult to convince them something more obscure was caused by an allergy, but have you ever tried to convince a doctor that a food allergy or intolerance was causing bad behavior? It's nearly impossible. The two seem pretty comparable, to me.
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#20 of 81 Old 05-18-2012, 08:15 AM
 
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I don't thi that's a fair characterization. I think if your child had a classic allergic reaction after a vaccine it would be fairly easy to get a doctor to acknowledge it.

 

This would be logical, but we know that rarely happens.  I know you don't believe in anecdotes, but several members have posted that their child's severe vaccine reaction were ignored by their doctor or blamed on something else.

 

Babies have died the day after getting shots and doctors call it SIDS.  Anything but a vaccine reaction, because those hardly ever happen, right?

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#21 of 81 Old 05-18-2012, 08:19 AM
 
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I don't thi that's a fair characterization. I think if your child had a classic allergic reaction after a vaccine it would be fairly easy to get a doctor to acknowledge it. I agree it may be more difficult to convince them something more obscure was caused by an allergy, but have you ever tried to convince a doctor that a food allergy or intolerance was causing bad behavior? It's nearly impossible. The two seem pretty comparable, to me.

Here. This is your belief (which of course you are entitled to have!) You may think it's true, but you have not experienced it firsthand. Some mothers have, and they speak out about it. Do you see the criticism they suffer, on this board alone? This crunchy, non-mainstream, alternative board. Think of the criticism they face in real life, where they are the small minority!

 

Oh, and I do agree with you about food and bad behavior. 110%!!!!!!


               "Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses."

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#22 of 81 Old 05-18-2012, 08:48 AM
 
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Like I said, I'm sure getting more obscure reactions recognized is difficult, but I don't think getting a classic allergic reaction would be. Vaccines don't cause SIDS.
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#23 of 81 Old 05-18-2012, 08:53 AM
 
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Like I said, I'm sure getting more obscure reactions recognized is difficult, but I don't think getting a classic allergic reaction would be. Vaccines don't cause SIDS.

 

I didn't say they did.  But death is a known side effect, and when an infant dies right after shots, it is often blamed on SIDS.  A coincidence.  An "obscure" reaction.

 

Infection rates drop years after a vaccine is introduced and it's considered a medical achievement.  A baby dies after getting 5 shots in one day and it's a coincidence.

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#24 of 81 Old 05-18-2012, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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How do you know if your kid is allergic to nuts? Or eggs? Or penecillin?

 

Would you give a newborn peanuts, eggs or penecillin? That is why doctors recommend that you don't feed things like peanuts to your child until they are at least 2 years old. The older the child, the better able they are handle it. This is an example of medical experts contradicting themselves. The CDC says that a child with a weak immune system should not be given vaccines, but if you look at the facts about immune systems, that would include EVERYONE under the age of 6 months old. So why do they inject newborns with the Hep B vaccine containing: "genetic sequence of the hepatitis B virus that codes for the surface antigen (HbSAg), cloned into GMO yeast, aluminum hydroxide, and thimerosal" (Recombinant Hepatitis B GlaxoSmithKline 800.366.8900 x5231)? (Aluminum Hydroxide is a neurotoxin that has been linked to dementia, Alzheimer's, encephalitis and other neurological disorders. It is in other vaccines as well and repeated use of aluminum hydroxide can cause a build up of aluminum in the brain, liver, thyroid, and lung tissues and can cause impairment of the kidneys which can lead to other disorders. Thimerosal is another powerful Neurotoxin that contains about 50% mercury which is the second most toxic chemical known to man. http://voices.yahoo.com/engerix-b-hepatitis-b-vaccine-ingredients-1817107.html )

Would you inject a fetus in their 2nd or 3rd trimester with GMO yeast, aluminum hydroxide or thimerosal? Common sense says no.... Newborn babies are only weeks older than that.
Infants, to some doctors, are considered to be "in the 4th trimester" and are still very fragile. Wellness dot com says that a newborn's immune system is not developed until they are about 6 months old. [link to www.wellness.com] No newborn infant has a fully developed immune system, so therefore no newborn should receive any vaccinations according the CDC's own statement.

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#25 of 81 Old 05-18-2012, 11:57 AM
 
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Drs no longer recommend that. There's no reason not to feed everything except honey starting at six months.
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#26 of 81 Old 05-18-2012, 11:59 AM
 
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If you would like to have a conversation about vaccine additives I think it would be best to start a new thread.
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#27 of 81 Old 05-20-2012, 03:51 AM
 
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Quote:
The Science Behind Herd Immunity – And an Extension to GMOs?

 

 

 

 

Quote:

The concept of herd immunity, as taken up by proponents of vaccination, is used to accomplish three things:

  • Promote a sense of guilt in nonvaccinators, convince them of the idea that they may be responsible for others—including the vaccinated!—being infected with disease.
  • Encourage an aggressive response from vaccinators against nonvaccinators by giving the impression that those who don’t vaccinate are to blame for disease.
  • Press for governmental enforcement of vaccinations for everyone, regardless of different viewpoints, philosophical ideas, or individual rights—and regardless of the inherent risks of vaccination.
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#28 of 81 Old 05-20-2012, 07:46 AM
 
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On subject of herd immunity... 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1919891/pdf/pubhealthreporig00027-0069.pdf from 1967 puts herd immunity at 55% of pop. being immune through previous measles infection. When the # of people no immune raises, it says outbreaks occur.

 

Now it looks like it needs to be 83% - 94% for measles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity.

 

So who/what is wrong?

 

So, I would really like to know more about this and MMR. I have seen some places, don't have links handy at the moment, that MMR once thought to last lifetime. Then that appeared to not be the case for a significant # of population, and 2nd shot was added. Anecdotal, but I have seen a few women coming to these boards to discuss vaccination (postpartum) after they discover their rubella immunity wore off and were tested while pregnant. I wonder how many of us adults who received MMR actually still have immunity to all or some of those. I wonder if the pre-vax population is boosting up herd immunity with their natural immunity, and if in a few decades we will have more outbreaks and/or MMR boosters.

 

ETA:

 

Mumps resurgence in the United States.

 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17030249

 

Quote:
A total of 2597 mumps cases have been reported in the United States in 11 states since January 1, 2006, representing a marked resurgence of mumps in a single year. The majority of these recent cases have occurred in college students age 18 to 25 years. Most were vaccinated with 2 doses of measles, mumps, and rubella-containing vaccines...
A review of mumps is provided with discussion of potential mechanisms for vaccine failure.

 

Mumps outbreak in a highly vaccinated school population. Evidence for large-scale vaccination failure.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7795768

 

Measles revaccination response in a school-age population.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1945606

 

Serological response to measles revaccination in a highly immunized military dependent adolescent population.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2054370

 

Quote:
 Since most of these individuals had received first immunizations at 15 months of age or older, these findings suggest that secondary vaccine failure (waning immunity) was responsible for the putative "lowered" immunity in these individuals, instead of primary vaccine failure (maternal antibody suppression).

 

Investigation of a mumps outbreak among university students with two measles-mumps-rubella(MMR) vaccinations, Virginia, September-December 2006.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19697404

 

 

I am seeing 95% efficacy for MMR vax? Anyone know anything more about how long it really lasts??

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#29 of 81 Old 05-20-2012, 07:59 AM
 
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There's a saying "when the facts change I change my mind, what do you do?"

The second dose of mmr is not because immunity wanes it's because not everyone has immunity after the first dose and the second dose catches most of the people who don't after the first dose. It is not because they suddenly decided immunity was fading and people needed boosters.

Our understanding of how long vaccines last is developing as vaccines are around longer. Current estimates for length of immunity from mmr are limited by how long the vaccine has been around (it is believed to be lifelong)
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#30 of 81 Old 05-20-2012, 08:07 AM
 
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There's a saying "when the facts change I change my mind, what do you do?"
The second dose of mmr is not because immunity wanes it's because not everyone has immunity after the first dose and the second dose catches most of the people who don't after the first dose. It is not because they suddenly decided immunity was fading and people needed boosters.
Our understanding of how long vaccines last is developing as vaccines are around longer. Current estimates for length of immunity from mmr are limited by how long the vaccine has been around (it is believed to be lifelong)

 

 

Long-term persistence of mumps antibody after receipt of 2 measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccinations and antibody response after a third MMR vaccination among a university population.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18419346

 

 

Quote:
Lower levels of NA observed among persons who received MMR2 > or =15 years ago demonstrates antibody decay over time. MMR3 vaccination of most seronegative persons marked the capacity to mount an anamnestic response.

 

...looks like maybe more MMR boosters are going to come around in the future!

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