Vaccination Forum Guidelines Reminder and Discussion - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#121 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 08:51 AM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Yeah, we have to get past the conversation of whose been worse to who and just move forward.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#122 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 10:10 AM
Administrator
 
adinal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 24,800
Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 66 Post(s)

I'm reading along, per Mosaic's request. :)  

 

A couple of things: name calling is not okay, no matter what.  If you have to resort to calling someone something other than their name, you have lost the "argument".  Everyone here is an adult, you all know what name calling is, don't do it. Re-read your posts and EDIT if you see it.  That will save Mosaic, me and anyone else who is helping in here a lot of work and time and allow us to deal with actual issues.

 

Second, discussing other members negatively is against the UA. Period. Again - if you self check your posts and make sure you are NOT discussing another member of MDC negatively, you will save mod time.

I know we don't all get along, and we most certainly don't all agree (ask me about Politics in 2008...lol.gif) but the mods really do try to be as even handed as possible. They cannot read all threads, they cannot read all posts.  On a normal, busy day in a hot forum they will get accused of bias from both sides. They are most certainly no out to get you - that implies a level of malice and time that they cannot possibly have in their limited *volunteer* modding time. 

 

Mosaic and I have been discussing the Newbie forum, and how to point it in the right direction and keep it civil.  It would go a long way if you all could help us with that.  Mods only have so many tools with which to enforce the peace (editing, removing, banning) and we don't like to use them until we have to. You, as members, have infinitely more ability to keep things civil and educational.

Turquesa likes this.

winner.jpg Adina knit.gifmama to B hearts.gif 4/06  and E baby.gif  8/13/12 (on her due date!) homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg

 

adinal is offline  
#123 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 11:07 AM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I don't think the Starting Research forum should remain. I have seen many new posters (who appear new to vax issue research) post in non, sel, or main vax forums, not the Starting Research Forum, asking questions about starting research

 

My standard line is Dr. Sears book, or start researching vpd/vax one by one in order that most concern/interest. Most people, when being even handed also say CDC pink book. I don't know why that needs a whole forum.

 

Yesterday several posters asked for help understanding the different tetanus vax options... but in the sel/del vaxed forum...

 

Most of the posts currently in the Starting Research forum would be better off in the Main Forum. The "Main" forum seems to have migrated to the Research forum.

 

Feelings of posters trying to "indoctrinate" newbies to their views, be it Offit seminars or Mercola, Natural News sites creates way too much tension, as clearly my post pushed Stik over the limit... I have felt the same to some other things posted there.

 

Another Mod to help out may not hurt...?

 

edited for clarity

Slmommy is offline  
#124 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 11:24 AM
 
laohaire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

But what will another mod do? If people can't cool it and stay on point then all the threads will be messes, over-moderated, disjointed, or *poof* and nobody's gained anything except possibly a temporary good time arguing. We could have 300 moderators in here hovering over every post but is that what everybody really wants?


Homeschooling mama to 6 year old DD.

laohaire is offline  
#125 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 11:50 AM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)

I like the research forum.  I think it's a good place to post resources (like the vaccinations seminar someone posted) that people who are doing research would like to see.  There are a lot more resources out there than the sears book and the pink book.  Some of the IOM stuff is a good example, or when a news article comes along about a new study or project.  

 

Posts don't have to become contentious in that forum, even if there is disagreement.  Just post a source that you think refutes the information and leave it at that.  If you want to debate it, start a thread in the main vaccination forum and people can talk about it there.

 

I think it can be a useful forum.

prosciencemum likes this.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#126 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 11:53 AM
 
QueenOfTheMeadow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: with the wildlife
Posts: 18,210
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)

No worries about how many mods there are specifically assigned to a forum.  When I open up the reports, and I see a lot of reports in one forum, often in one thread, I take notice.  I think all the mods do.  We have been talking about it, which is where this thread is coming from.  With the new forum and more open guidlines, the majority of what we are looking at is tone, personal attacks, and a repectful attitude.  That's all we are asking, and like Adina says, we only have so much time!  If you would all like to pitch in and pay us, I'm sure we'd all be more than willing to spend some more time here.  lol.gif winky.gif


 
QueenOfTheMeadow is offline  
#127 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 11:56 AM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I suggested mod because as far as I understood it... we were overwhelming the one assigned here... particularly on Monday mornings smile.gif

Slmommy is offline  
#128 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 11:58 AM
 
AbbyGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

I don't think the Starting Research forum should remain. I have seen many new posters (who appear new to vax issue research) post in non, sel, or main vax forums, not the Starting Research Forum, asking questions about starting research

 

My standard line is Dr. Sears book, or start researching vpd/vax one by one in order that most concern/interest. Most people, when being even handed also say CDC pink book. I don't know why that needs a whole forum.

 

Yesterday several posters asked for help understanding the different tetanus vax options... but in the sel/del vaxed forum...

 

Most of the posts currently in the Starting Research forum would be better off in the Main Forum. The "Main" forum seems to have migrated to the Research forum.

 

Feelings of posters trying to "indoctrinate" newbies to their views, be it Offit seminars or Mercola, Natural News sites creates way too much tension, as clearly my post pushed Stik over the limit... I have felt the same to some other things posted there.

 

 

I agree. It really doesn't seem to be a place where people looking into the issue are asking questions but rather a place for bickering and posturing (not pointing the finger at any particular side). Questions seem to be asked in the other forums.

Turquesa and thegoodearth like this.
AbbyGrant is offline  
#129 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
Mosaic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: La vida loca
Posts: 4,005
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
For the record, the newbie vax forum was Peggy's idea and she wants to see it stay. And I think that we can agree that the vax forum is intimidating to those who are just getting started, especially for someone who doesn't know the guidelines of the different areas.

We're trying to figure out guidelines that will make it welcoming and active. There are LOTS of threads on how we made our decisions, resources we've found helpful, links to articles, etc. Maybe we can keep posting new articles or latest developments, but include a summary of the article in layman's terms? Maybe an intro as to what to look at: risk rates, incidents, ingredients, etc.?

Mi vida loca: full-time WOHM, frugalista, foodie wannabe, 10+ years of TCOYF 

 

R-E-S-P-E-C-T spells BRAND NEW User Agreement!!

Mosaic is offline  
#130 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 12:04 PM
 
AbbyGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

And eliminating the research forum ties in with the idea of eliminating some subforums that was proposed on the I miss MDC thread. winky.gif
 

AbbyGrant is offline  
#131 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 12:31 PM
 
purslaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

Yeah, we have to get past the conversation of whose been worse to who and just move forward.

 

I can agree to this.

 

A few things to get off my chest.  I disagree with the following:

 

 

"we should be able to call a conspiracy theory a conspiracy theory, and one who follows it a conspiracy theorist"

"we should be able to say most people do not understand science"

"we should be able to say most vaxxers have not studied the issue"  (and in particular use the word "sheeple")

 

Even if you think those statements are true in general, people should think twice about posting it.

 

1.  they are often not true on MDC, or whomever you are discussing an issue with. 

2.  They are inflammatory.  No good comes from the above statements in a discussion.

 

Implying things is also a load of dung.  I cannot recall the number of times someone has come on and said "I believe in science.  I vaccinate"   It very much implies the other side does not beleive in science, which is why they do not vaccinate.  An example from the other side would be "  I believe in good health.  I do not vaccinate".  Uhh - I am pretty sure pro-vaxxers believe in good health as well, they are just taking another route to it.    Particularly given the climate at the moment, I think we need to be careful with words that imply the other side is stupid, sheeple, non-scientific, etc.  

BeckyBird and thegoodearth like this.
purslaine is offline  
#132 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 12:34 PM
 
AbbyGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

A few things to get off my chest.  I do not think we should say:

 

"we should be able to call a conspiracy theory a conspiracy theory, and one who follows it a conspiracy theorist"

"we should be able to say most people do not understand science"

 

Then I do not think we should say "big pharma creates vaccines to make people sick in order to be able to sell people drugs the rest of their lives" or the like because that is inflammatory and will not be able to be responded to without tiptoeing.

AbbyGrant is offline  
#133 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 12:44 PM
 
purslaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,937
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post

 

Then I do not think we should say "big pharma creates vaccines to make people sick in order to be able to sell people drugs the rest of their lives."

Fine by me.

 

Personally, I do think they should be able to say that on the non-vaxxing forum, and that pro-vaxxers should be able to say things like "only conspiracy theorists think the government and Big Pharma are in it together"  on a pro-vax forum. That would be my solution, it might lead to more chaos or it might help, I don't know.  Either way it is moot - I do not think MDC wants a pro-vax subforum.  Given this, I agree, we should all be careful with our words.  

purslaine is offline  
#134 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 12:51 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cover letter he!!
Posts: 6,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post

 

Then I do not think we should say "big pharma creates vaccines to make people sick in order to be able to sell people drugs the rest of their lives."

Fine by me.

 

Personally, I do think they should be able to say that on the non-vaxxing forum, and that pro-vaxxers should be able to say things like "only conspiracy theorists think the government and Big Pharma are in it together"  on a pro-vax forum. That would be my solution, it might lead to more chaos or it might help, I don't know.  Either way it is moot - I do not think MDC wants a pro-vax subforum.  Given this, I agree, we should all be careful with our words.  

 

Nope, MDC does not want a pro-vax board. MDC is pro-NFL which according to Peggy does not include vaxing. This is very much an anti-vax board - no matter which sub-forum you're in.

Super~Single~Mama is offline  
#135 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:03 PM - Thread Starter
 
Mosaic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: La vida loca
Posts: 4,005
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

Nope, MDC does not want a pro-vax board. MDC is pro-NFL which according to Peggy does not include vaxing. This is very much an anti-vax board - no matter which sub-forum you're in.
SSM, re-read the OP or ANY of the Vax guidelines, where it is clearly stated that MDC is not anti-vax.

Mi vida loca: full-time WOHM, frugalista, foodie wannabe, 10+ years of TCOYF 

 

R-E-S-P-E-C-T spells BRAND NEW User Agreement!!

Mosaic is offline  
#136 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:10 PM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Ok I was starting to feel less cranky, but then I did go to TWWS and now I see exactly how you guys feel about me and what I post... it's so nice and fun you have such a place to discuss certain posters/threads here.

 

I wish I knew how to start an internet forum... I would call it trolls with aluminum spoons... so you know, I could have a nice place with all my "friends" to discuss people I don't agree with, with all the people that agree with me. 

Slmommy is offline  
#137 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:10 PM
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Cover letter he!!
Posts: 6,548
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosaic View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

Nope, MDC does not want a pro-vax board. MDC is pro-NFL which according to Peggy does not include vaxing. This is very much an anti-vax board - no matter which sub-forum you're in.
SSM, re-read the OP or ANY of the Vax guidelines, where it is clearly stated that MDC is not anti-vax.

 

Then why no, "I'm vaxing on Sched!" forum? It may be clearly stated in the forum guidelines or whatever, but the general feel is that it is very anti, and seems like the non-vaxers get away with alot (Taxi for example - I've only seen a few of her outright accusations of people being trolls taken down)

laohaire and erigeron like this.
Super~Single~Mama is offline  
#138 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:13 PM
 
AbbyGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

Ok I was starting to feel less cranky, but then I did go to TWWS and now I see exactly how you guys feel about me and what I post... it's so nice and fun you have such a place to discuss certain posters/threads here.

 

Who's "you guys?"

AbbyGrant is offline  
#139 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
Mosaic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: La vida loca
Posts: 4,005
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Your feelings are valid, but that doesn't change the stated goals of the forum. All parents are welcome to post on the vax forums, and all members are welcome to use the report button.

Mi vida loca: full-time WOHM, frugalista, foodie wannabe, 10+ years of TCOYF 

 

R-E-S-P-E-C-T spells BRAND NEW User Agreement!!

Mosaic is offline  
#140 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:15 PM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

well I've seen at least 4 that are around here some/all of the time, and they admit what post on mdc is theirs... so... thumbsup.gif

Slmommy is offline  
#141 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
Mosaic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: La vida loca
Posts: 4,005
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Haven't I already mentioned several times that this thread isn't about other boards? That conversation is more than welcome to take place, just somewhere else.

Mi vida loca: full-time WOHM, frugalista, foodie wannabe, 10+ years of TCOYF 

 

R-E-S-P-E-C-T spells BRAND NEW User Agreement!!

Mosaic is offline  
#142 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:17 PM
 
AbbyGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

well I've seen at least 4 that are around here some/all of the time, and they admit what post on mdc is theirs... so... thumbsup.gif

 

Of course there are people there from MDC. That was what people were mad about.  But when you say "you guys" on a thread you are implying something else. 

AbbyGrant is offline  
#143 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:21 PM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post

 

Of course there are people there from MDC. That was what people were mad about.  But when you say "you guys" on a thread you are implying something else. 

I'm implying people involved in this discussion.

 

Sorry Mosaic, I will stop. 

 

Doubt I will ever view the environment here as anything close to "good"

Slmommy is offline  
#144 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:23 PM
 
AbbyGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

What you're doing here isn't really helping.
 

AbbyGrant is offline  
#145 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:28 PM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

yeah I guess it's better to be naive... Kathymuggle is right, I think people who post here should know.

Slmommy is offline  
#146 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:38 PM
 
AbbyGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

I think everyone knows already. It's been beaten to death.  And there are other places to complain about it like the gigantic thread Kathy already linked.  Continuing to carry on about it and trying to out people isn't helping here.  But maybe that's your point?  It's too far gone so why bother? You've mentioned several times how you will never feel okay here.

AbbyGrant is offline  
#147 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:50 PM
 
Slmommy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 875
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

nm

Slmommy is offline  
#148 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 01:53 PM
 
AbbyGrant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 741
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

      Quote:

Originally Posted by slmommy View Post

I thought this thread about about being civil and how to end the ill-will that is present here.

 

Me too.

AbbyGrant is offline  
#149 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 02:10 PM
 
beckybird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: The Shattered Paradigm
Posts: 1,899
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)

I didn't know either. This is the only parenting forum I visit. Actually, it's the only forum I regularly visit at all. I don't even know what this other forum is.

 

    Imagine someone came to MDC and argued on the Nursing Beyond Infancy forum. This person claimed that nursing a toddler/young child is psychologically harmful, completely irresponsible, and borderline sexual molestation. We all know how the western world views nursing beyond infancy, so this example is possible.

 

    Imagine this person cut and paste the nursing arguments on another board, and made fun of the nursing mothers. That is hurtful, right? This is how many of us nonvaxxers/vaccine questioners feel about the issue. You don't like to be called trolls, and we don't like to be quoted and mocked behind our backs. It's a form of internet bullying, and it goes both ways.

 

    There is nothing we can do about it, but it's nice to know what's going on. I'm glad to know that this is happening, but I'm not going to change my posts in any way (well, I'll try to get along and be nicer to the provax crowd). I definitely will not visit this other forum though, because I know it will upset me.

(By the way, this is why I don't post personal info on the Sex Talk forum!)

purslaine likes this.

 
 
 "Medical propaganda ops are, in the long run, the most dangerous. They appear to be neutral. They wave no political banners. They claim to be science. For these reasons, they can accomplish the goals of overt fascism without arousing suspicion.” — Jon Rappoport
 
 
 
beckybird is online now  
#150 of 333 Old 05-23-2012, 02:15 PM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,155
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
No, I don't think that's hurtful. I think that's a normal part of the Internet and participating in the public domain. Could we please take this to tao? Want me to start the thread?
Rrrrrachel is offline  
Reply

Tags
Vaccinations

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off