Vaccination Forum Guidelines Reminder and Discussion - Page 7 - Mothering Forums

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#181 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 06:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post

 

Kathy, I wasn't even that active of a member when my daughter as a little, and I knew about TWWS way back then from learning about it on MDC. While there is no advisory about it, it's not like the information has been suppressed.  I'm not saying you knew back then too, but from what I gather, you've know about it for quite some time. If you felt strongly about people knowing, why wait till now to bring it up?  Why not PM people or bring it up sooner. This kind of reminds me of when I bring something up with my husband I'm irritated about at the moment and turns the conversation around about something I did like three weeks ago so we don't have to talk about the subject at hand.

Bolding mine.

 

I have brought it up, repeatedly.  You alluded to the fact I brought up before upthread. I have pmed people.  I genuinely feel people have a right to know.  I do think more people now know - primarily because of the troll thread, but also because other people have told them.

 

Let's do a bit of a timline here:  

 

-ssm made a winky

-you interpretted it as a joke

-I said I was pretty sure the winky was alluding to TWWS or other pro-vax sites

-Stik came on and said we should not discuss TWWS - which I could not let pass.  The nerve of saying we should not discuss TWWS when they have spent years discussing us behind our backs!

 

…and it snowballed from there.  I did not  bring it up as some sort of PSA - the topic arose pretty organically.

 

I will say I have  done my fair share of posting on this thread about TWWS (I feel pretty strongly about it) - but I am hardly the only one.  I have even tried to drop the topic (mostly because I am getting repetitive) but people keep bringing it up, lol.  It takes two to tango.

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#182 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 06:25 AM
 
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I think that most of the conversations that have gone on lately in the research forum would've been fine in the main vaccines forum.  I think we should keep the research forum for posting links to information (and counter information, if necessary) but keep the discussion/questions/back and forth to the main vaccines forum.  

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#183 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 06:28 AM
 
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So back to how we can figure out how to be respectful when discussing the Research issue...

Links only  (my preference) ….or abandon the research forum.  I am not sure we need one, anyways.

 

Non-vax and sel/delayed are pretty tame…that is where people go for questions.  

 

People post on vaccine to debate.  We do not need 2 vaccine debate forums.  

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#184 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 06:28 AM
 
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I think you've done a good job bringing links Rrrrrachel.  Stuff I probably wouldn't have found on my own. 

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#185 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 06:30 AM
 
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*

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#186 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 06:35 AM
 
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I think it's a good place to post information without it getting buried in debate (in theory wink1.gif)
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#187 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 06:40 AM
 
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Abby:  you got the last line in with your little words at the bottom (lol) - or is this the last line?

 

Either way - you are probably right.  I do want the last line (mature of me, eh?).   Be a sport and give it to me.  One day, when you feel really strongly about an issue and want the last line, let me know and I will return the favour.  namaste.gif

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#188 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 06:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

So back to how we can figure out how to be respectful when discussing the Research issue...

I don't think anybody who did name-calling over in TWWS should expect others to respect them if they talk about "moving forward" without having apologized.

 

Frankly, that's part of the problem.  It's one thing to have your statement blown out of proportion and applied to "all anti-vaxers" (or all vaxers, for that matter), but it's quite another to single an individual out and call them an A$$, or loony, or other demeaning names.

 

I haven't seen anyone involved in the dogpiling express any regret for the hurt they've caused, but I've seen quite a lot of snarking about how the poor MDC-ers feel soooo hurt.  

 

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Originally Posted by AbbyGrant View Post

Oh Kathy I was just going to post about how I was going to drop it so long as you didn't keep bringing it up but you had to do it yet again just like before. I'm going to be a big girl though and stop as I have practically begged people to do the same. You seem to really want the last word on the subject, so I'm going to let you have it.

 

Great.  "You had to do it yet again."  "I'm going to be a big girl though and stop."

 

Yup, we're really moving forward here.

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#189 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 06:48 AM
 
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#190 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 07:05 AM
 
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#191 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 07:47 AM
 
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How do we realistically move forward here, when some of those in this particular discussion are calling us a$$es, loonies, and worse on another forum? It's not "other people" doing that on other forums, it's our own MDC members supposedly posting helpful, supportive messages here, and then being downright vicious over there, even calling for dog piling over here. If we know who they are (and we do) and what they are doing over there, that certainly affects their credibility here.
AdinaL, I assume you know what I'm talking about, or do I need to post screenshots?

 

If TWWS and Orac disappeared tomorrow, there would still be people calling you asses and loonies elsewhere.*

 

It is the nature of the internet.  Public boards -- even those requiring registration -- are public.   Always have been.  Blogs?  Public.  Livejournal?  Public. 

 

You cannot simultaneously host a public discussion of an issue and ensure that the public cannot hear it and cannot dissect your ideas elsewhere.  The only way to make sure that no one calls you an ass is to never lay your words out there.   To lock down your Facebook to friends-only and post your thoughts there.   To start your own board and invite only a few people to it, and discuss it there.**

 

But then, of course, you're no longer discussing.  At best, you're preaching to a hand-selected choir of people who agree with you, and at worst, you are howling into the empty darkness where no one can hear you at all.   Either way, it's not a real exchange of ideas.

 

Not everyone is going to agree with you in this world.  Especially when you state strongly-held opinions on controversial topics.  And people are going to discuss why they don't agree with you.   Especially if they're not allowed to approach you in person to disagree with you, as they are not on MDC's vaccination forums.   

 

If you want everyone to agree with you and be nice, your choices are to:

 

1) Only state your opinions in 100% safe places (see above about the existence of those on the internet)

2) Remember the rules of polite social conversation that no one follows anymore -- the ones about it being rude to discuss politics, religion, and money.   Sure, it limits what you can say, but that's how "everyone just gets along."

 

 

*18 years of participating in online issues discussions, going back to Usenet and then to early pregnancy/parenting boards have shown me that every single venue, once it gets to a certain size, is going to have people discussing and mocking its contents.  I think I once posted *here* that the number of snarky spinoffs is probably strongly correlated with the popularity of the central community.   The day that *no one* is talking about MDC in other fora will be the day that MDC is simply no longer relevant enough to the larger world for anyone to care what happens there.   And I have seen that happen on a formerly-vibrant board I used to be a member of.   Be careful what you wish for.

 

**Note:  Once your private, invitation-only board hits about 12 people, statistically it is a better than 50% chance that at least ONE member will be sharing posts with someone outside the board.   Small private boards that get too big seem to crash and burn with startling regularity

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#192 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 08:18 AM
 
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I was cleaning (blech) and came across a handout from a workshop on dealing with difficult or angry people.  I thought some of the tips were appropriate:  

 

From the Education Safety Association of Ontario.

 

the do's:

 

-do listen through the anger to try and find the perceived cause

-do prevent total frustration by acknowledging the feelings of the person

-do rephrase what is being said to identify the issue

-do allow the person to vent and tell you what is upsetting her

-do, whenever possible, separate the person from the situation that is causing the problem

-do recognise when it is time to remove yourself from the situation

 

Don't:

 

-don't minimise the situation

-don't say "calm down"

-don't get into an argument or shouting match

-don't blame, riddicule or use sarcasm

-don't be cute or humorous

-don't make things more complicated

-don't ignore your own limitations - skill, strength, time

 

 

The above is for workplace issues - where you do want to de-escalate the situation.

 

On the internet I am not sure I am responsible for calming another down, none-the-less, they are still cool tips and they might be applicable in some situations and move things forward.

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#193 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 08:58 AM
 
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Tree of Life:
You have got to be kidding me.  Other people snark MDC and its posters behind their back, so it is ok if regular users here do it? Way to accept responsibility for your own behaviour.  Whatev.
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#194 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
 
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treeoflife, edit your post for language.

And I'm pretty sure the "laughing stock of the internet" title goes to someone else this week, though that would be exciting! lol.gif

Another tip: we used to moderate under the assumption that young children were reading over our shoulders. I'd encourage you to review your posts before hitting submit to make sure that you'd want your children reading or heck, even posting the same. Maybe this slightly different perspective could help us bring some respect and balance back.

Mi vida loca: full-time WOHM, frugalista, foodie wannabe, 10+ years of TCOYF 

 

R-E-S-P-E-C-T spells BRAND NEW User Agreement!!

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#195 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 09:44 AM
 
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Tree of Life:
You have got to be kidding me.  Other people snark MDC and its posters behind their back, so it is ok if regular users here do it?  Whatev.

 

I'm not sure why you are so shocked about this.  damn near everyone talks about the thing that go on in their day with their friends.  I don't believe you don't do it either.  I don't believe you either say nothing or go 'yeah, someone disagreed with me today... hmm, how interesting' and then change the subject to bean dip.  I think your problem with this probably isn't that there is a forum of people with membership to here and there who will talk about how much they disagree with you and why, I think your problem is that you aren't included.  Or weren't included in something when you were younger.  Whatever.  Your problem isn't that people laugh at your thoughts and dissect why they are laugh worthy... you already knew that happens everywhere every day.  Your problem goes deeper than that.  That's why you are so vocal.  I think you view twws as the 'cool kids' or 'popular kids' and you have issues with THAT and are taking it out here.

 

I am sure there are people talking about me right now too.  They are on twws.  I'm sure someone is IMing about me.  maybe in a private chat room, on another forum.  Maybe emailing a cousin about the crazy person they saw posting on a weird thread on mdc.  Maybe they are talking about how awesome and spot on I am.  Maybe they are complaining about how horrible and clueless and MEAN I am.  I don't know, I don't care.  Not my problem.  People can think whatever they want.  People can say whatever they want.  They aren't calling me names that I know about and I can assure you they won't say anything worse than has already been said about me.  I'm an adult, I've heard it all.  That's the risk I took though when I posted my opinion in a public place.  This won't be the first time either.  I've been on other forums, ALL of which had spin off boards.  EVERY single one of them.  This?  Is nothing new.  This is the same thing that happens everywhere on the internet.  That's called being human.  You disagree, you realize how MUCH you disagree and you leave to talk about how much you disagree with people who also disagree.  There are more spin off boards in existence than original boards.  Promise.

 

Yes, I think it's perfectly okay for twws members to snark.  They have an opinion and I assure you, they'd say it to your face if they could here.  There is no pretend crap being pulled.  They'd love it if you came over and talked to them about everything... and surprisingly, not just so they can rip you to shreds.  There are some loved members who came over expecting that and after getting everything out?  are full time members who enjoy it there.  You know, because it's not just a bunch of mean people who will be mean no matter what.

 

 

 

And no, I will not edit.  It is not my fault people are letting their kids old enough to read and too young to handle seeing swear words read an adult forum over their shoulders.  Nor is it my fault this website chose not to use a filter allowing adults to actually speak how adults speak without hurting people who can't handle a swear word once in awhile.  The only reason I'd edit would be to not get banned.  I don't care about getting banned.  Getting banned for using a couple swear words on the internet is actually a reason people mock MDC.  And yes, MDC is a laughing stock.  Tied with many places, sure... but there's a reason news like Time are picking up on the AP thing (and even mocking it themselves with that awful cover picture.)  Because EVERYONE is talking about it.  MDC is the go to place for that nature of stuff.  MDC PRIDES itself on being extreme.  The crunchiest of the crunch.  Of course it's a huge laughing stock.

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#196 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 09:44 AM
 
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And I'm pretty sure the "laughing stock of the internet" title goes to someone else this week, though that would be exciting! lol.gif
 

 

ROTFLMAO.gifI wonder how he would fit in here biglaugh.gif

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#197 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 09:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosaic View Post

And I'm pretty sure the "laughing stock of the internet" title goes to someone else this week, though that would be exciting! lol.gif
 

 

ROTFLMAO.gifI wonder how he would fit in here biglaugh.gif

 

Did I miss something? Who is the laughing stock?

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#198 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 09:52 AM
 
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Will PM you since it's off topic. It has nothing to do with MDC at all.

 

At least this is who I think Mosiac is referring to. But I think it's a safe bet...
 


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#199 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 10:17 AM
 
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Tree - of - life:   You might want to ask yourself why you are so annoyed that I dislike the snarking aspect of TWWS.  Did it hit too close to home?  Me thinks you doth protest too much.

 

edited as per instructions.

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#200 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 10:29 AM
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This is out of hand.

 

TreeOfLife - you need to edit your post for profanity.  We do not use a filter because we expect that you will use language that is appropriate.  If you truly wish to be removed from this site, I will be happy to close your account for you.  We don't usually ban for profanity, so this would be YOUR choice alone to leave the site.  

 

KathyMuggle - your post is out of line.  Period.  This is what I mean when we begin discussing the poster instead of the post, it is not okay, and will need to be edited or removed.

 

 

Now then, let me remind each and EVERY one of you - You are responsible for your posts. No one else is forcing you to write them, there is not a gun to your head while you post making you be snarky and rude and out of line. Someone else's post does not force your hand, does not provoke you so greatly that you lose control of your fingers and HAVE to type a nasty response.

 

Someone else's actions are not an excuse for posting poorly and against the rules.

 

TreeOfLife and KathyMuggle, I highly suggest you put each other on ignore and move on.

 

If folks continue to show an inability to even be civil on a thread discussing guidelines and common ground in this forum, we will begin to remove people's access to this forum. 


winner.jpg Adina knit.gifmama to B hearts.gif 4/06  and E baby.gif  8/13/12 (on her due date!) homebirth.jpg waterbirth.jpg

 

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#201 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 11:34 AM
 
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Man, I go take my kid to an appointment and miss everything. So, how 'bout that research forum? lol.gif
 

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#202 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 11:44 AM
 
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nm - nothing juicy - promise

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#203 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 01:38 PM
 
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Man, I go take my kid to an appointment and miss everything. So, how 'bout that research forum? lol.gif
 

 

 

Yeah some of us sleep during the day.

 

To Taxi.  Lets clear the air.  Want to do it in PM or on a thread?  Pretty sure the Mods want us to keep it off the thread but whatevs.  None of you can put on your big girl panties and move the heck on.  So sad.

 

Treeoflife.  Where have you been hiding?

 

Kathy.  WOAH!  I thought we had an understanding that if things were going to go crazy on this thread I'd at least get a shout out?!  horrors.gifI miss everything!

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#204 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 01:49 PM
 
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Kathy.  WOAH!  I thought we had an understanding that if things were going to go crazy on this thread I'd at least get a shout out?!  horrors.gifI miss everything!

Ahh..you did not miss much.    Tree and I had words.  We will both live to fight another day.

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#205 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 01:54 PM
 
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Ah, too bad this thread didn't actually do anything but piss more people off.

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#206 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 02:23 PM
 
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haha kumbaya is out i think. oddly most of us seem to agree Research forum is not a good idea.

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#207 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 03:15 PM
 
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Yeah some of us sleep during the day.

 

To Taxi.  Lets clear the air.  Want to do it in PM or on a thread?  Pretty sure the Mods want us to keep it off the thread but whatevs.  None of you can put on your big girl panties and move the heck on.  So sad.

 

Treeoflife.  Where have you been hiding?

 

Kathy.  WOAH!  I thought we had an understanding that if things were going to go crazy on this thread I'd at least get a shout out?!  horrors.gifI miss everything!


Not hiding anywhere... still trying to figure out what I'm protesting too much to get a 'doth protest too much!' thrown at me... funny since I was thinking the same about you ;)  Mods want me to shut up though and far be it from me to go against a little internet hand slap.  Might ruin my day to get more imaginary internet warnings.

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#208 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 03:15 PM
 
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I guess I the voice of dissent, then. I think it can serve a purpose, if people will use it for what it's for and keep the stuff that belongs in the main forum in the main forum.
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#209 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 04:04 PM
 
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Yeah some of us sleep during the day.

To Taxi.  Lets clear the air.  Want to do it in PM or on a thread?  Pretty sure the Mods want us to keep it off the thread but whatevs.  None of you can put on your big girl panties and move the heck on.  So sad!

That's really amusing, imakcerka! Wow, it's just like junior high school all over again, where the mean girls pretend to be nice while the teacher is looking, and then they kick you really hard the second the teacher's back is turned.

I guess your version of "putting on your big-girl panties" is to create a let's-bash-Kathymuggle thread and to call me names?

No, thanks-- I don't want to play your little game, here or on pm.
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#210 of 333 Old 05-24-2012, 04:16 PM
 
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banghead.gif  Everyone stop!  No more personal attacks,  insinuations, and no more, "I'll stop when she stops."  Please.  It's driving me up a wall!   We are all adults, and if someone comes back with, "well, she's not acting like an adult"  my head will explode.  

 

It's not about individuals.  It's about the research forum.  What I'm seeing is that people either want to make the forum about links or not have it at all.  Yes?


 
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