The case for vaccination - Page 11 - Mothering Forums

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#301 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 07:51 AM
 
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I went to KINDGERGARTEN in 1990. Weird. My mom remembers it like it was yesterday of course, and I don't remember my first day at all. I feel old now that you pointed that out.

I was in my first year of college in 1990.  You are not old (now where is my walker??)

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#302 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 07:52 AM
 
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She has said numerous times that she called the peds office and was told by some idiot nurse that she wouldn't be seen if she brought them in, so her baby was lethargic for 2 days and she just waited it out. I really don't want to go back and look for it.

Won't ask you to.  I am sure it will come up again.

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#303 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 07:53 AM
 
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I don't Rachel is being rude or hostile.

 

I have, FWIW, watched my son have a seizure. It was the worst experience of my life. What I cannot imagine is seeing that, and then not seeking medical care. Thankfully we were in the pediatricians office when it happened (for a sick visit - it was NOT vaccine related, it was a febrile seizure on a day that my ds had a fever and then we had to walk to the Ped's office in 104 degree heat in the city where it felt like 110 - no wonder he had a febrile seizure), and were able to get an ambulance transfer to the LIJ Childrens ER. I would not wish that experience on anyone - it was horrible and I had no help at all since my ex was taking the bar exam and I couldn't reach him until hours later. Mother to mother, I cannot imagine NOT going to an ER if my child was ever having anything like what Taxi has described numerous times.



That's fine, of course.  You may not think so, but after reading this entire thread, I think her quip regarding "It's never too late!" to report to VAERS is definitely in a vein of mean-spiritedness and ridicule.  It's not supportive or respectful to Taximom in any way.  Perhaps the real question is...did it even need to be said?  Parents are here researching their vaccine decision.  Tone may not be accurately conveyed on the internets, but, to ME, many of Rrrrrachel's posts have come off rude, despite the fact she says it isn't her intent...and I don't have any dog in this fight.  I'd rather go hit my head on the pantry door a few times than participate in threads like these.

Taxi has explained WHY she didn't go to the ER.  It doesn't make her experience any less awful, or any less valid.  Regardless of what others have done, or think they might do, in the similar situation, none of us are Taxi, with Taxi's docs and nurses.  She is sharing her experience, and doesn't deserve to be marginalized. 

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#304 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Uh, yeah. I know that.  I am confused as to your point.

Just that even if her kids are teenagers vaers was still around when it all went down.

 

Also pretty sure vaers has been around since the mid 80's.

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#305 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 07:57 AM
 
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Louisw , I wonder , what she´d be telling you after getting a preventable disease and suffering through it , even though you could have prevented that with one tiny sting of a needle ! 


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#306 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 07:58 AM
 
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Just that even if her kids are teenagers vaers was still around when it all went down.

 

Also pretty sure vaers has been around since the mid 80's.

 

Nope, 1990.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/Activities/vaers.html

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#307 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 08:00 AM
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But I know several people , who had it and are not fine at all and to this day , the only prevention against polio is the vaccine , there is NO CURE !

And living in a modern country and being clean and eating good food will NOT protect you !

 

Oh my friend if you learn the history of polio you may be astounded. Polio has been used as a propaganda child for "vaccination" but the horrific FACTS about polio will blow your mind.

 

"The vaccinators then put their heads together and came back with a new definition of poliomyelitis. The old, classical, definition: a disease with residual paralysis which resolves within 60 days has been changed to a disease with residual paralysis which persists for more than 60 days. Knowing the reality of polio disease, this nifty but dishonest administrative move excluded more than 90% of polio cases from the definition of polio. Ever since then, when a polio-vaccinated person gets polio, it will not be diagnosed as polio, it will be diagnosed as viral or aseptic meningitis. According to one of the 1997 issues of the MMWR, there are some 30,000 to 50,000 cases of viral meningitis per year in the United States alone. That's where all those 30,000 - 50,000 cases of polio disappeared after the introduction of mass vaccination. One must also be aware that polio is a man-made disease since those well-publicized outbreaks are misrepresented that those huge outbreaks were causally linked to intensified diphtheria and other vaccinations at the relevant time."    Doctor Viera Scheibner PhD

 

"New studies have found that SV-40, a major contaminant of the polio vaccine until 1963, not only existed as a latent virus for the lifetime of those exposed to the vaccine but was being passed on to the next generation, primarily by way of sperm, something called vertical transmission. This means that every generation from now on will be infected with this known carcinogenic virus. There is also compelling evidence that some polio vaccines manufactured after 1963 may contain SV-40 virus."   Doctor Russell Blaylock MD

 

"What makes the SV-40 contamination disaster of such concern is its association with so many cancers – including mesothelioma, medulloblastoma, ependymoma, meningioma, astrocytoma, oligodendroglioma, pituitary adenoma, glioblastoma, osteosarcomas, non-Hodgkins lymphoma, papillary thyroid carcinomas, and anaplastic thyroid carcinomas."   Doctor Russell Blaylock MD

 

The Federal government has gone to enormous lengths to cover up this association, despite the powerful scientific evidence that this vaccine infected at least a hundred million people worldwide with this carcinogenic virus."    Doctor Russell Blaylock MD

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#308 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 08:01 AM
 
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Let´s get one thing straight , WE as vaccers are always the ones , who are being attacked , not only on this post , but others as well , and even though , it seems , we have to tread on egg shells , as to not " insult " non - vaccers , we are still constantly being  told , that we are rude and need too apologize .

And Louis , I am not your friend , however it does amaze me , that you actually seem to believe some of the stuff , you are posting  


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#309 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 08:03 AM
 
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VAERS was a requirement of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) which was passed in 1986. I think that's were the confusion might be coming in.  It just took a few years for it to come about.
 

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#310 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 08:04 AM
 
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Louisw , I wonder , what she´d be telling you after getting a preventable disease and suffering through it , even though you could have prevented that with one tiny sting of a needle ! 

tonttuu….

 

We can turn that around.  What would your child tell you if they had a severe vaccine reaction to a disease that was either usually very mild in childhood  or had incredibly low incidence rates?

 

In any event, I don't think we should guilt parents that way…do your research and roll your dice.  That is all we can do.  You take a chance no matter what you do, and different people have come to different conclusions as to what is riskier.

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#311 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 08:08 AM
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One thing is clear ALL polio in the US since about 1961 or so is the RESULT of VACCINATION.

 

In 1977, Dr Jonas Salk, who developed the first polio vaccine, testified along with other scientists that mass inoculation against polio was the cause of most polio cases throughout the USA since 1961."   Science 4/4/77 Abstracts

 

So why are we "vaccinating" for polio?

 

Well for the same reason we "vaccinate for the seasonal flu"

 

To get a needle into your arm folks.

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While I agree that it may be coming across as mean spirited it's best to point out each time a vaccine injury is brought up that it needs to be reported.  It does not take away the fact that injury has occurred.  I would venture to guess there are people who do not know about reporting or where they can report.  But I do think enough is enough. 

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That's fine, of course.  You may not think so, but after reading this entire thread, I think her quip regarding "It's never too late!" to report to VAERS is definitely in a vein of mean-spiritedness and ridicule.  It's not supportive or respectful to Taximom in any way.  Perhaps the real question is...did it even need to be said?  Parents are here researching their vaccine decision.  Tone may not be accurately conveyed on the internets, but, to ME, many of Rrrrrachel's posts have come off rude, despite the fact she says it isn't her intent...and I don't have any dog in this fight.  I'd rather go hit my head on the pantry door a few times than participate in threads like these.

Taxi has explained WHY she didn't go to the ER.  It doesn't make her experience any less awful, or any less valid.  Regardless of what others have done, or think they might do, in the similar situation, none of us are Taxi, with Taxi's docs and nurses.  She is sharing her experience, and doesn't deserve to be marginalized. 

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#313 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
 
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yes, Louis.  Oral polio caused more polio than it prevented, once polio was under control.  that is not disputed.  that's why we switched to IPV.  That does not mean it didn't play an important role in eradicating polio.

 

I can't control how my posts are interpreted.  I have asked every mother who I've seen on this forum mention a vaccine reaction if they have reported the reaction to VAERS.  I do this because I think it's important and many people don't realize they can report to VAERS themselves rather than rely on their doctor to do it.  It's not to be mean.

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#314 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 08:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Ultimately, if someone thinks I'm being rude they should flag it, period.  Or if they're really upset they can PM me.  We don't need to waste space talking about whether or not I was rude.  I don't intend to respond to further public comments about me, and I would encourage other people to ignore it as well.  It's about the quickest and easiest trick for derailing a thread.

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#315 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 08:13 AM
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VAERS was a requirement of the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act (NCVIA) which was passed in 1986. I think that's were the confusion might be coming in.  It just took a few years for it to come about.
 

 

Perhaps as few as one percent of adverse reactions are reported to VAERS. Many doctors will not report because of the "greater good" of continuing "vaccination". Now some eighth graders could come up with a better "system" than that. CDC spends one billion/year to propagandize us into getting "vaccinated" how about spending some money to find out what "vaccination" is doing.

 

CDC KNOWS what "vaccination is doing; they do not want us to know. If your child has an adverse reaction please spread the word.

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I would like ot know where that 1% statistic comes from.  good thing we don't have ot rely on doctors to report to vaers!  You can do it yourself!

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#317 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 08:26 AM
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Let´s get one thing straight , WE as vaccers are always the ones , who are being attacked

 

Dear lady I for one am not attacking you or any one else who "vaccinates"; all I am doing is to ask you to look at the EVIDENCE.

 

For twenty years I did not eat a extremely healthy egg because I had been propagandized into thinking the cholesterol was harmful. Once I examined the cholesterol issue in a little detail I flipped 180 degrees. I pray you do too. Why do I care; because your children are truly mine in a very important sense; because I realize the damage "vaccination" is doing to our children and our society. When I see a child crying I stop to attempt to help, I am sure you do too. I must have the mothering instinct.

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#318 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 08:28 AM
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I would like ot know where that 1% statistic comes from.  good thing we don't have ot rely on doctors to report to vaers!  You can do it yourself!

 

Very few do currently.

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#319 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 08:32 AM
 
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Funny , how people always say " the chance of suffering a vacc reaction is greater than suffering from the actual disease " !

As statistics ( on this thread as well ) have conclusively proven , the chance of someone having a severe reaction to a vaccine are so slim , they are in no way justifiable to use them as an argument against vaccination . 

And to say , that the number of people contracting diseases , that have been almost eradicated by vaccination , will not rapidly rise , is ignorant at best !

Just a few years ago , there was a big outbreak of measles in Germany , because many people didn´t deem it necessary to freshen up their vaccine status .

That was just one generation of people thinking , that one doesn´t need to be protected against those " harmless childhood " diseases . 

( I wonder of the families of all the people , who died , still feel that way ? ) 

Now , let´s put that on a bigger scale in a country like the US , with all the people coming from other countries like India or Russia or places like that , where diseases like polio , diphteria , whopping cough or measles are still endemic .

And now let´s look at all those people not vaccinated against them , and after the first dozen or so have died or are damaged for life , let´s take the tiny , tiny , tiny number of cases , that had a REAL reaction to a vaccine and compare them . 

Of course , there will always be the occasional lucky one , who says " I know somebody , who had polio and they are fine !"

But I know several people , who had it and are not fine at all and to this day , the only prevention against polio is the vaccine , there is NO CURE !

And living in a modern country and being clean and eating good food will NOT protect you !

What is protecting the anti - vac community , whether they like to hear it or not , is those of us , that do vaccinate our kids and ourselves , to create herd immunity and to keep the number of infections down .  

The argument , that even vaccines don´t create 100 % immunity is probably true in some cases , but even partial immunity , when catching a certain disease and not suffering the full blast from it , is still better than having to endure hte whole thing . 

Oh yes , before , I forget , ANY parent , who takes their child to a CP party , to expose them to an infectious disease on purpose , should be reported to social services  for child abuse , but the words , I have for somebody like that , are better kept inside my head and not typed out , since I don´t want to be kicked of Mothering orngbiggrin.gif

I am one who has no trouble with vaccinations in theory.  I am not the one who will argue about polio, etc.  I looked at my grandfather's baby book from 1912, and his mother recorded all his childhood diseases (including influenza in 1918).  Pretty sobering!

 

What I have reconsidered is vaccinating children for all these diseases that aren't necessarily affecting them.  Maybe I wouldn't have questioned this, but the US vax schedule (and specifically, our WA vax schedule) is horrendous and getting more extensive.  Routinely 4 shots per infant visit (some of those multiple vaxes, like MMR).  It forced me to examine what I was vaxxing my tiny kids for.  I understand there is some benefit to vaxxing infants vs. adults, but I am just starting to see this as such a heavy burden on kids (who have no say in this matter, whereas adults do).  Each individual shot is another chance for a reaction, and I think the statistics are enough that NO parent should feel bullied into a decision that has a potential to harm her child.  

 

This has been pointed out before, recently in regards to the WA pertussis outbreak, that most of these cases popping up here are occurring in vaccinated individuals, mainly of middle school age.  I know this is one disease, and the vax for that one is at issue.  But it throws a wrench into the argument of "the vaccinated are protecting the unvaccinated".  

 

If parents of chicken pox parties should have social services called on them, then parents of kids with other illnesses need to be fined for bringing their kids out in public, to schools and parks.   My youngest daughter had a severe case of pneumonia after one, and I swear I want to punish every parent of every snotty-nosed kid walking into gymnastics.  It's epidemic, I tell you!  No, chicken pox is unpleasant but uneventful for the vast majority of kids.

 

I find it odd that pro-vaxxers argue for the CP vaccine because a few kids have a horrible case (like my nephew), yet they argue that kids should be vaccinated in general, despite the fact that a few kids get severe reactions.  

 

Scientists know that each finding is not the final answer.  The scientific method (when untainted by profits) is to examine and reexamine.  Nothing is sacred.  There is no absolute truth, only experiments that can be reverified over and over again, getting as close as we can come to FACT.  We work on the best information we have at the time.  

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I was in my first year of college in 1990.  You are not old (now where is my walker??)

Aw, geez.  I started college in 1987.  Ouch.

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Originally Posted by Louisw View Post

Perhaps as few as one percent of adverse reactions are reported to VAERS. Many doctors will not report because of the "greater good" of continuing "vaccination". Now some eighth graders could come up with a better "system" than that. CDC spends one billion/year to propagandize us into getting "vaccinated" how about spending some money to find out what "vaccination" is doing.

 

CDC KNOWS what "vaccination is doing; they do not want us to know. If your child has an adverse reaction please spread the word.


I was simply clarifying about the date.

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Louisw , I wonder , what she´d be telling you after getting a preventable disease and suffering through it , even though you could have prevented that with one tiny sting of a needle ! 

 

Well what is a "preventable disease"

 

It is my opinion that if you make sure our children have vitamin D levels of at least 60 ng/ml; have sufficient levels of vitamin C, at least 2 grams/day and eat a healthy diet no pop garbage in boxes, bags and cans mostly; get some sunshine and exercise we can prevent MOST disease.

 

What does it COST for one tiny sting of a needle? You can ask the mothers of many autistic children that question.

 

http://vran.org/personal-stories/claytons-story-vaccine-reaction/

 

God designed our bodies to be FULLY operative WITHOUT needles shoving toxins into us.

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     Quote:


I was simply clarifying about the date.

 

Pardon me please.

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Let´s get one thing straight , WE as vaccers are always the ones , who are being attacked

 

Dear lady I for one am not attacking you or any one else who "vaccinates"; all I am doing is to ask you to look at the EVIDENCE.

 

For twenty years I did not eat a extremely healthy egg because I had been propagandized into thinking the cholesterol was harmful. Once I examined the cholesterol issue in a little detail I flipped 180 degrees. I pray you do too. Why do I care; because your children are truly mine in a very important sense; because I realize the damage "vaccination" is doing to our children and our society. When I see a child crying I stop to attempt to help, I am sure you do too. I must have the mothering instinct.

 

Umm...I only stop to help if the child is alone and seems lost. If they are being tended by a parent I let the parent do their job in peace without judgment.

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 She is sharing her experience, and doesn't deserve to be marginalized. 

 

IMO if we share our adverse reactions experiences we can do a LOT for our kids.

 

I'll share one of mine. Being the cheapskate I am I was attracted to the "free" "seasonal flu shot" our company was giving away. Luckily I read the vaccination form instead of just signing it. When I saw the words Guillain Barre I dropped the form and left the office and never considered a "vaccination" again. Doctor Moulden has since informed me that Guillain Barre is a common reaction to "vaccination".

 

 

 

Please read the vaccination release forms; if you child is getting an eight "vaccine" soup shot you should signing eight forms; Do not "vaccinate" your precious flesh and blood until you understand what those forms are saying. This may take a little work but your child is worth it. Read the forms at home. Refuse any medical procedure the day it is sprung on you DEMAND the information; take it home and DIGEST it. If you need help understanding the material get help.

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Umm...I only stop to help if the child is alone and seems lost. If they are being tended by a parent I let the parent do their job in peace without judgment.

 

Of course.

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#326 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Very few do currently.

 

I would like to see the statistics that support that assertion.

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I am one who has no trouble with vaccinations in theory.  I am not the one who will argue about polio, etc.  I looked at my grandfather's baby book from 1912, and his mother recorded all his childhood diseases (including influenza in 1918).  Pretty sobering!

 

What I have reconsidered is vaccinating children for all these diseases that aren't necessarily affecting them.  Maybe I wouldn't have questioned this, but the US vax schedule (and specifically, our WA vax schedule) is horrendous and getting more extensive.  Routinely 4 shots per infant visit (some of those multiple vaxes, like MMR).  It forced me to examine what I was vaxxing my tiny kids for.  I understand there is some benefit to vaxxing infants vs. adults, but I am just starting to see this as such a heavy burden on kids (who have no say in this matter, whereas adults do).  Each individual shot is another chance for a reaction, and I think the statistics are enough that NO parent should feel bullied into a decision that has a potential to harm her child.  

 

This has been pointed out before, recently in regards to the WA pertussis outbreak, that most of these cases popping up here are occurring in vaccinated individuals, mainly of middle school age.  I know this is one disease, and the vax for that one is at issue.  But it throws a wrench into the argument of "the vaccinated are protecting the unvaccinated".  

 

If parents of chicken pox parties should have social services called on them, then parents of kids with other illnesses need to be fined for bringing their kids out in public, to schools and parks.   My youngest daughter had a severe case of pneumonia after one, and I swear I want to punish every parent of every snotty-nosed kid walking into gymnastics.  It's epidemic, I tell you!  No, chicken pox is unpleasant but uneventful for the vast majority of kids.

 

I find it odd that pro-vaxxers argue for the CP vaccine because a few kids have a horrible case (like my nephew), yet they argue that kids should be vaccinated in general, despite the fact that a few kids get severe reactions.  

 

Scientists know that each finding is not the final answer.  The scientific method (when untainted by profits) is to examine and reexamine.  Nothing is sacred.  There is no absolute truth, only experiments that can be reverified over and over again, getting as close as we can come to FACT.  We work on the best information we have at the time.  

Aw, geez.  I started college in 1987.  Ouch.

Yes, but there is a big difference between unknowingly going to gymnastics and contracting an illness and PURPOSELY bringing your kid to a CP party to PURPOSELY make them sick...and whether its just unpleasant for you or ends up being severe or even fatal, that's something I will gladly protect my kids from having to go through if I can.

 

I don't think it's odd that pro-vaxxers would argue for a CP vaccine, because it falls along the same risk/benefit analysis that the non-vaxxers are considering when they choose not to vaccinate...we just disagree on where the greatest risk lies.

 

And I totally agree with you that there is not and never will be a final answer...we work on the best information we have and that is true for all of us.

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#328 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 09:05 AM
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yes, Louis.  Oral polio caused more polio than it prevented, once polio was under control.  that is not disputed.  that's why we switched to IPV.  That does not mean it didn't play an important role in eradicating polio.

 

Polio has not been eradicated; it has been defined away.

 

"Polio has not been eradicated by vaccination, it is lurking behind a redefinition and new diagnostic names like viral or aseptic meningitis. When the first, injectible polio vaccine was tested on some 1.8 million children in the United States in 1954, within 9 days there was huge epidemic of paralytic polio in the vaccinated and some of their parents and other contacts. The US Surgeon General discontinued the trial for 2 weeks."  Doctor Viera Scheibner PhD

 

"The vaccinators then put their heads together and came back with a new definition of poliomyelitis. The old, classical, definition: a disease with residual paralysis which resolves within 60 days has been changed to a disease with residual paralysis which persists for more than 60 days. Knowing the reality of polio disease, this nifty but dishonest administrative move excluded more than 90% of polio cases from the definition of polio. Ever since then, when a polio-vaccinated person gets polio, it will not be diagnosed as polio, it will be diagnosed as viral or aseptic meningitis. According to one of the 1997 issues of the MMWR, there are some 30,000 to 50,000 cases of viral meningitis per year in the United States alone. That's where all those 30,000 - 50,000 cases of polio disappeared after the introduction of mass vaccination. One must also be aware that polio is a man-made disease since those well-publicized outbreaks are misrepresented that those huge outbreaks were causally linked to intensified diphtheria and other vaccinations at the relevant time."    Doctor Viera Scheibner PhD

 

Dear Woman do you not understand we just changed NAMES.

.

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#329 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by SweetSilver View Post  I started college in 1987.  Ouch.

 

Oh yeah how about 1958. Hey you don't get older you get better. LOL

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#330 of 713 Old 06-05-2012, 09:17 AM
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One must also be aware that polio is a man-made disease since those well-publicized outbreaks are misrepresented that those huge outbreaks were causally linked to intensified diphtheria and other vaccinations at the relevant time."    Doctor Viera Scheibner PhD

 

 

Here is an important example of one "vaccination" causing another "disease". This is happening a LOT.

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