The case for vaccination - Page 15 - Mothering Forums
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#421 of 713 Old 06-06-2012, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And there it is, folks. The thread finally got long enough!
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#422 of 713 Old 06-06-2012, 03:35 PM
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Smoke, Mirrors, and the “Disappearance” Of Polio

 

The tendency of a mass vaccination program is to herd people. People are not cattle or sheep. They should not be herded. A mass vaccination program carries a built-in temptation to oversimplify the problem; to exaggerate the benefits; to minimize or completely ignore the hazards; to discourage or silence scholarly, thoughtful and cautious opposition; to create an urgency where none exists; to whip up an enthusiasm among citizens that can carry with it the seeds of impatience, if not intolerance; to extend the concept of the police power of the state in quarantine far beyond its proper limitation; to assume simplicity when there is actually great complexity; to continue to support a vaccine long after it has been discredited;… to ridicule honest and informed consent.[1]

 

There is plenty of confusion on the topic of vaccination, especially amongst brainwashed doctors who trusted their medical schools.  Then the unsuspecting, trusting public trusts them…because the medical establishment must know best, right? And doctors are nice people, trying to do a good thing.  True.  I was once one of those brainwashed doctors who believed in the benevolence of the medical system and believed that all I learned was the best that modern times had to offer. It is blazingly clear to me now though, that much of what is taught in medical school is enormously limited. I now see that most doctors are little more than blind slave-technicians who follow the dogma they were taught and were rewarded for repeating, even as the truth unfolds in front of them dictating otherwise.

 

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2011/11/17/smoke-mirrors-and-the-disappearance-of-polio/

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#423 of 713 Old 06-06-2012, 04:57 PM
 
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The "polio vaccine" appears to me to be a wonderful bio-weapon that is sure to help depopulate this "overpopulated" world.

 The polio vaccine was first used in 1953.  The world population in 1953 was 2.68 billion.  The world population in 2011 was 6.91 billion.

 

Bio-weapon FAIL!


WildKingdom, don't you see? If vaccines hadn't been invented the earths population would be at least 8 billion by now. The bio- weapons ARE working, it's just not obvious at first.
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#424 of 713 Old 06-06-2012, 05:55 PM
 
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I'm starting to wonder if vaccines cause schizophrenia. Does anyone know?
 

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#425 of 713 Old 06-06-2012, 05:59 PM
 
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You jest.
 

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#426 of 713 Old 06-06-2012, 06:39 PM
 
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And there it is, folks. The thread finally got long enough!

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This has been fun and informative. Page 21 made me laugh so hard I cried!!
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#427 of 713 Old 06-06-2012, 07:51 PM
 
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This has turned from a "normal" thread to something comical.  LouisW, I hope you can see that you are truly not representing those of us on MDC who choose not to vaccinate.  I have no idea where you came from or why you started frenetically posting this stuff on here, but to anyone who reads this in the future, please know that he in no way represents the majority of us non vaxxers who are not reactionary nor conspiracy theorists.

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#428 of 713 Old 06-06-2012, 07:54 PM
 
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As much as we (vaxxers and non vaxxers alike) are getting a good laugh out of the conspiracy theories Louis is posting, I do think he has ruined this and many other threads on MDC recently by posting rants that are totally random and off topic and causing the focus to go to him.  So I would like to let you all know I have flagged him for the mods.  I don't know if they can/will do anything, but I hope so, because I don't want MDC to turn into some crazy rant soundboard for one guy who really, really hates vaccines.

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#429 of 713 Old 06-06-2012, 08:25 PM
 
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There is some truth to the SV-40 virus in the polio vaccine deal.  It was one of the issues that concerned me when I started investigating vaccines.

 

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/2000/02/002bookchin.htm

 

But I think it is more of an issue of how clean vaccines are, rather than a "depopulation" experiment.  Either way, it's worth a read by vaxxers and non-vaxxers alike.

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#430 of 713 Old 06-06-2012, 09:09 PM
 
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Some of the recent posts have been, umm, very entertaining.

 

 I would like to call everyone's attention to this:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Poe's+Law

 

 

 
Poe's Law 2683 up102 down
 
Similar to Murphy's Law, Poe's Law concerns internet debates, particularly regarding religion or politics. 

"Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won't mistake for the real thing." 

In other words, No matter how bizzare, outrageous, or just plain idiotic a parody of a Fundamentalist may seem, there will always be someone who cannot tell that it is a parody, having seen similar REAL ideas from real religious/political Fundamentalists.
 
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#431 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 06:15 AM
 
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As much as we (vaxxers and non vaxxers alike) are getting a good laugh out of the conspiracy theories Louis is posting, I do think he has ruined this and many other threads on MDC recently by posting rants that are totally random and off topic and causing the focus to go to him.  So I would like to let you all know I have flagged him for the mods.  I don't know if they can/will do anything, but I hope so, because I don't want MDC to turn into some crazy rant soundboard for one guy who really, really hates vaccines.

 


So, you want MDC to ban someone who holds beliefs that you don't? He didn't break any rules that I saw. I see a lot of posters on MDC who hold beliefs that I think are really cuckoo, but since they fit in with MDC's vibe, they get to stay. Who gets to choose what personal opinions and beliefs are OK?

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#432 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 06:17 AM
 
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So, you want MDC to ban someone who holds beliefs that you don't? He didn't break any rules that I saw. I see a lot of posters on MDC who hold beliefs that I think are really cuckoo, but since they fit in with MDC's vibe, they get to stay. Who gets to choose what personal opinions and beliefs are OK?

I thought this was a forum for mothers...???

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#433 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 06:29 AM - Thread Starter
 
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As much as we (vaxxers and non vaxxers alike) are getting a good laugh out of the conspiracy theories Louis is posting, I do think he has ruined this and many other threads on MDC recently by posting rants that are totally random and off topic and causing the focus to go to him.  So I would like to let you all know I have flagged him for the mods.  I don't know if they can/will do anything, but I hope so, because I don't want MDC to turn into some crazy rant soundboard for one guy who really, really hates vaccines.


I agree he's ruining a lot of threads, but I thinks he solution is to just put him on ignore, stop responding to him, and hope he goes away.
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#434 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 06:31 AM
 
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Still it's a shame for new members to come and have these threads hijacked in this way. I suggest again that we reboot and start this thread again. Perhaps it will happen again.... but we can but try to put forward the real science. 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#435 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 06:33 AM
 
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So, you want MDC to ban someone who holds beliefs that you don't? He didn't break any rules that I saw. I see a lot of posters on MDC who hold beliefs that I think are really cuckoo, but since they fit in with MDC's vibe, they get to stay. Who gets to choose what personal opinions and beliefs are OK?

There are clear trolls that come to MDC every once in a while.  Their posts are flagged and they often vanish (whether they are banned, or give up, is unclear to me).

 

Whether Louis is a clear troll who is here to stir the pot, or simply a zealous anti-vaccinator with some interesting ideas, remains to be seen.  I am glad a mod will look at it.  I guess the answer to the italics is "no one" - but a mod gets to judge if their behaviour is allowed here.  

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#436 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 06:37 AM
 
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I thought this was a forum for mothers...???

While the board is called Mothering, fathers post on occasion, and IMHO are certainly welcome to.  We even have non-mothers who post - usually those TTC, but not always.  

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#437 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 06:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Still it's a shame for new members to come and have these threads hijacked in this way. I suggest again that we reboot and start this thread again. Perhaps it will happen again.... but we can but try to put forward the real science. 


I did create a wiki version of it. I think the wikis are a little out of the and and difficult to find, but please feel free to add to or edit it if you'd like.
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#438 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 06:56 AM
 
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nm.


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#439 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 07:36 AM
 
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So is it too late to get this discussion back on track? Because I wanted to get back to the flu vaccine, but maybe we're too far gone.

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#440 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 07:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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probably time for a new thread if you want to discuss the flu vaccine.

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#441 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 07:46 AM
 
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*
 

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#442 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 07:50 AM
 
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Responding to no one:

 

This thread is titled "The *case* for vaccination" not "The irrefutable evidence for vaccination".  If it's a valid point of argument, then it most definitely counts as a "case for".

 

I also wanted to ask, specifically, if this means vaccinating just infants and children, or are we including vaccination of teens and adults in with this?  Seems like such a no-brainer, but my screaming children forced me to question why we have to burden our kids with such a load.  So I'm interested in why the campaign is so heavily targeted at kids?  I am especially referring to the diseases that affect adults much more severely than children, such as measles.  

 

Genuinely asking, I'm not being sarcastic.


Give me a few minutes while I caffeinate.
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#443 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I think it's two food. One is infants are very vulnerable to most diseases so protecting them early makes sense. There are also some vaccines that are more effective below a certain age.

The other issue is for lots of people the first couple of years of life are the only time they reliably go to the doctor, so it's an important window for getting vaccines in. For lots of people if you don't do it then it won't get done.
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#444 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 09:08 AM
 
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Can you post the link to the wiki on the thread? 


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#445 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.mothering.com/community/a/the-case-for-vaccination

 

I don't really understand how to access these.  If you click on articles at the top it kind of dead ends.

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So, you want MDC to ban someone who holds beliefs that you don't? He didn't break any rules that I saw. I see a lot of posters on MDC who hold beliefs that I think are really cuckoo, but since they fit in with MDC's vibe, they get to stay. Who gets to choose what personal opinions and beliefs are OK?

Um, I'm actually a non vaxxer. And so I'm not trying to ban him because of his beliefs which are technically similar to mine. I'm trying to ban him because his ranting and conspiracy theories are honestly ruining threads. I personally would like to read a thread called "the case for vaccination" to see where you all are coming from....But I can't if he takes it totally off topic. Plus I feel bad for parents out there that are new to these forums and are coming on to ask honest questions. Reading his wingnut conspiracy theories will probably scare them away.
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#447 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 09:17 AM
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Hi.  Remember on the other thread where I reminded everyone that discussing other members is not okay, and that you need to edit if you have been doing it?  Oh, and the part where I said everyone on this forum has had ample warning and should know better by now?

 

Yeah.  Applies here too.

 

Seriously, if you feel someone is derailing the thread, or multiple threads, please PM, report posts or otherwise contact us.  If they drive you freaking batty and you can't deal, *put them on ignore*, and still report stuff. :)  

 

Keep the discussion on topic, not on other posters.  If you have been discussing other posters, I highly suggest you edit to fix that issue.  


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#448 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 10:03 AM
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The Polio Vaccine Myth: “The Vaccine Stopped Polio”

First let’s understand a bit about Polio and how “dangerous” it really is. the following is stated in a paper written by Dr Sheri Tenpenny, one of the leading researchers of vaccine safety and effectiveness.”Polioviruses are transient inhabitants of the gastrointestinal tract. Up to 95% of all polio infections are completely asymptomatic.

 

Approximately 5% of polio infections consist of a minor, nonspecific illness consisting of an upper respiratory tract infection (sore throat and fever) and gastrointestinal disturbances (nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, and diarrhea). This influenza-like illness, clinically indistinguishable from the myriad of other viral illnesses, is characterized by complete recovery in less than a week with resultant life time immunity. Less than 1% of all polio infections result in paralysis.

 

Most importantly, the vast majority of individuals who contract paralytic poliomyelitis recover with complete—or near complete—return of muscle function. Any weakness that is still present 12 months after onset of paralysis is usually considered permanent.

 

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2012/02/18/the-polio-vaccine-myth-the-vaccine-stopped-polio/

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#449 of 713 Old 06-07-2012, 10:07 AM
 
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Very Interesting Louisw.  What are your thoughts on this thread  http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1354625/red-flags-for-risk-of-vaccine-reaction/20

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Louis you talked earlier about Dr Blaylock. I found this: http://www.skepdic.com/blaylock.html Thoughts? It looks like he is making his money now selling "cures" for cancer, alzheimers, etc.

 

I am trying to find information about Dr Tenpenny, but all I am finding is anti-vaccination stuff. I'm looking for her educational background. What is her specialty, where did she do her residency? Does she have a current license to practice? Did she practice, how long and where? I find it odd that I can't find any info about her background at all. when I type in my Pediatrician's name, I can see exactly where he went to med school, did his residency, every place he has worked, etc etc. She claims to be a vaccine expert, but I'd like to see proof of that claim besides the fact that she talks about vaccines. I could put up a catchy website and call myself a vaccine expert, but that doesn't make it true.

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