should there be a pro-vax forum? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: Should there be a pro-vax forum? In the absence of such a forum, where should pro-vax friendly post
Yes, there should be an "I am vaccinating " forum 35 100.00%
No, there should not be a "I am vaccinating forum" 16 100.00%
Pro-vax friendly discussions belong in the Sel/Delayed 8 100.00%
Pro-vax friendly discussions belong on the main vaccination page 10 100.00%
pro-vax friendly can go in either; non-vax friendly can go in either 9 100.00%
pro-vax friendly can go in either, non-vax friendly should stay in non-vax 3 42.86%
other. Please explain. 4 57.14%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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#61 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 01:04 PM
 
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I think , it would only be fair , if we as pro- vaccers have our own forum , where we can share our stories 

Plus , it would also make it easier for people , who are investigating the vaccine decision , to read up on pro - vaccers point of view , instead of having to weed through HUGE discussions and battles of word on other vac - forums 

 

( Just a thought ! ) 

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#62 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 01:08 PM
 
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Re: the bolded, why do non-vaxers need a forum? I don't think they do.

 

I agree with getting rid of the subforums though.

 

I don't think they/we do either. Just for the record. I have no opinion on the subforums thingy. 

 

My intention with the post which started all this, was just to hear from other AP mamas who vaccinate thoughtfully. As I stated, I enjoyed reading those comments in the "Case for Vaccination" thread, so I wanted to call them out. I though it would also provide a location for newbies to see that it's not that unusual of a choice for a Mothering Mama to decide to vaccinate after doing the research. I found this board disheartening when I joined Mothering forum as I could only see anti-vaccination posts and rudeness about people who vaccinated doing it because it's main stream, or they haven't thought about it etc. That is not the case for many of us here, and I see absolutely no link between Mothering parenting styles and choosing not to vaccinate - although thinking about and discussing the choice is clearly related! ;) 

 

Mothering is seen among the pro-vax community as an anti-vax site, and I think that does the rest of the wonderful things Mothering really do promote a disservice. I think it needs to keep repeating that this forum is about making an informed choice (to vaccinate or not), not just about being a support place for anti-vaccination beliefs. If you read all the rules it is quite clear, but we all know about what fraction of people read rules/instructions! ;) We just have to keep pointing it out. :) 

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#63 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 01:11 PM
 
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Re: the bolded, why do non-vaxers need a forum? I don't think they do.

I agree with getting rid of the subforums though.

Uhm. I answered that already. AND I said we only need one forum, though sweet silver does bring up good points.

I think you are just being difficult.

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#64 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 01:21 PM
 
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Re: the bolded, why do non-vaxers need a forum? I don't think they do.

I agree with getting rid of the subforums though.

Uhm. I answered that already. AND I said we only need one forum, though sweet silver does bring up good points.

I think you are just being difficult.

 

And I think you're just being annoying.  Oh wait, we will both be asked to edit now, because personal attacks aren't allowed.

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#65 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 01:24 PM
 
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There are many ways you could divide the vax camps, but I see 2 clearly emerging: those who are comfortable and happy with the chaos and debate and those that really just want to read "the facts" (loaded term here!), get some support and make their own choices without all the trouble of sifting through 400 posts of arguments.

 

These issues could be addressed by creating articles and wikis that are linked to at the top of the forum - maybe an "anti" and a "pro" article that could contain links to information on each side of the debate - if its at the top o the forum newbies could find both easily and find all the information they want about the "pro" and the "anti" side of the debate.

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#66 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 01:31 PM
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Knock it off.


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#67 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 01:32 PM
 
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DANCE OFF!!!!!

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#68 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 05:10 PM
 
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Vaccinating is much more common than not. Those who do not vaccinate (not ANTI, just making the choice for their children not to) spend most conversations regarding vaccinations in debate, because those who do vax are so quickly on the attack towards those who don't. Imagine how exhausting that can be. 

 

That's why MDC is considered a safe haven, and not a place people want to have to deal with what they get ALL THE TIME.

 

And if you want to debate, maybe create a distinctly labeled debate thread and don't troll other threads where CLEARLY no one is there to debate. 

 

People in a minority need places where they can share and get support, without automatically being open to debate and criticism from opposing, mainstream views. Don't bother, it's just true.

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#69 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 05:15 PM
 
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Vaccinating is much more common than not. Those who do not vaccinate (not ANTI, just making the choice for their children not to) spend most conversations regarding vaccinations in debate, because those who do vax are so quickly on the attack towards those who don't. Imagine how exhausting that can be. 

 

That's why MDC is considered a safe haven, and not a place people want to have to deal with what they get ALL THE TIME.

 

And if you want to debate, maybe create a distinctly labeled debate thread and don't troll other threads where CLEARLY no one is there to debate. 

 

People in a minority need places where they can share and get support, without automatically being open to debate and criticism from opposing, mainstream views. Don't bother, it's just true.

 

This, exactly.  It's like people going into the UC forum and telling everyone "But your baby could DIE!"

 

If you've made the decision to fully vaccinate on schedule because you believe that it is safe and the benefits outweigh the risks, then there isn't much to talk about, is there?  There's nothing wrong with that - it just is.  I vaccinated my first fully and on schedule, and I never thought to post about it anywhere because there was nothing to discuss.

 

It seems that many of the really pro-vax voices here are mostly interested in debating, not support, so that could still be done in the regular Vax forum, no?  If what you're looking for is a pat on the back and comradery, then perhaps there could be a Pro-Vax tribe?

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#70 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 05:23 PM
 
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I thought a lot about the previous post.  As a midwife I personally have strong opinions about certain things that have to do with maternity care.  I have a hard time reading posts from the UC board, because I feel like there is so much misinformation on there about midwifery care and safe birth options.  So I made the decision early on to stay off of it because I couldn't be neutral.  So I get what Bokonon is saying.

 

But...As a non vaxxer can I say I kind of enjoy the debate?  It gets old listening to  people saying "yeah, I agree" and I feel like I have learned many things from the pro-vaxxers on this board.  Nothing has changed in my choice to not vax, but I think they bring interesting perspectives and information to the table.

 

That said, I think it's really important to have the subforums as a "safe haven" of sorts for us non-vaxxers (our little non vaxxing subforum) and the S/D subforum for those looking at certain vaccines, pros and cons, and the "making the vaccine decision" board for everything else (that's where the debate should always be, IMO.  I really hope the subforums in the vaccine section do not disappear.  I think it will really change the way this sector of MDC is used. 

 

And I want to say again I am all in favor of a pro-vax subforum as well, for the reasons I mentioned in a previous post.


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#71 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 05:24 PM
 
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A pro-vax tribe is also a good idea, too.


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#72 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 05:25 PM
 
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I think there should be and that each side should stick to their own sub-forum for support but come here for friendly debate. It is true that most mainstream people vaccinate but most AP mama's seem to not do this so it is easy to feel alone as a pro-vac AP mama.
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#73 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 05:52 PM
 
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how about a real vote- only one per member not an anonymous poll?

 

 

post it- 30 days to vote (NOT SHOWING WHAT WAY IT IS GOING) and post the results at the end - send it via email so every one who might not see it does at least get a heads up

 

I would also like it to show membership by length of membership - meaning you can't be new after the poll is posted, members as of such and such date only-1 July? pick a date- not announced prior and see where things fall

 

it might show what direction members want to be in


 

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#74 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 06:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by nukuspot View Post

 

That said, I think it's really important to have the subforums as a "safe haven" of sorts for us non-vaxxers (our little non vaxxing subforum) and the S/D subforum for those looking at certain vaccines, pros and cons, and the "making the vaccine decision" board for everything else (that's where the debate should always be, IMO.  I really hope the subforums in the vaccine section do not disappear.  I think it will really change the way this sector of MDC is used. 

 

And I want to say again I am all in favor of a pro-vax subforum as well, for the reasons I mentioned in a previous post.

 

nukuspot, you just reminded me of this.

 

So, here is a quote from the guidelines of the "Research" forum.  And I guess now that I read your take on it being the place where the debate should always be (I would agree it *should* be), but I find this a bit confusing:

 

 

This sub-forum is for parents in the process of making an informed choice about vaccinations

It is not meant to be a sub-forum to debate the pros and cons of vaccines, but rather to discuss the personal implications of the vaccine decision, questions and concerns that arise as it is made and resources helpful in making the decision.

 

 

Can anyone explain what exactly this means?  If one shouldn't debate the pros and cons of vaccines, but discuss personal implications?  What are "personal implications?  Meaning, not arguing generally, but um.... personally?  (?????)  I am more than a bit confused now on what that allows and disallows, honestly.  

 

Oh, and I just figured out the whole cut-and-paste thing!!!  I get better at this all the time......


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#75 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 08:30 PM
 
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Now I just found the discussion of the "research" forum on another thread I abandoned.  Read a few of the 250-posts I fell behind on.  I am still not entirely clear on all of it.  Just a need for my brain to organize things differently I guess....


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#76 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 01:38 PM
 
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Vaccinating is much more common than not. Those who do not vaccinate (not ANTI, just making the choice for their children not to) spend most conversations regarding vaccinations in debate, because those who do vax are so quickly on the attack towards those who don't. Imagine how exhausting that can be. 

 

That's why MDC is considered a safe haven, and not a place people want to have to deal with what they get ALL THE TIME.

 

And if you want to debate, maybe create a distinctly labeled debate thread and don't troll other threads where CLEARLY no one is there to debate. 

 

People in a minority need places where they can share and get support, without automatically being open to debate and criticism from opposing, mainstream views. Don't bother, it's just true.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post

 

This, exactly.  It's like people going into the UC forum and telling everyone "But your baby could DIE!"

 

If you've made the decision to fully vaccinate on schedule because you believe that it is safe and the benefits outweigh the risks, then there isn't much to talk about, is there?  There's nothing wrong with that - it just is.  I vaccinated my first fully and on schedule, and I never thought to post about it anywhere because there was nothing to discuss.

 

It seems that many of the really pro-vax voices here are mostly interested in debating, not support, so that could still be done in the regular Vax forum, no?  If what you're looking for is a pat on the back and comradery, then perhaps there could be a Pro-Vax tribe?

I don't write too much -- especially as of late with all the "debate" going on... I just want to say yeahthat.gif to all of the above.

 

Its gotten to the point where it just seems like people are arguing for the sake of arguing and I'm getting sick of it. 


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#77 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 03:24 PM
 
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I think that even among AP or natural parents, most parents vaccinate. Nationwide, about 0.05% don't. And, while there are more non-vaccinators on MDC than elsewhere perhaps, I wonder if pro-vaccinators feel they are in the minority because they actually are or because those opposed are more vocal? I'm for a pro-vaccination sub-forum or social group if it doesn't add to the already too many sub-forums. It's all about the safe haven, having a chance to work it out, talk it out. It's such a hard issue. Many of us make a decision by default. All sides should be represented and I'd hope a pregnant woman new to the vaccine issue could find a place to start here as well. 

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#78 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 05:20 PM
 
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A pro-vax tribe is also a good idea, too.


Tribes get moved from the Finding Your Tribe forum to places they fit better - so a tribe would most likely end up here in Vaccinations anyway, where it could very easily be taken over by debate (unless the tribe forum guidelines have changed - which is entirely possible).

It's a good idea, I just don't know how well it would work out practically speaking.
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#79 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 07:32 PM
 
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No, i dont think there should be a pro vax forum/sub forum on here.  this is a natural family site, vax is not natrual.  JMO   there are plenty of mainstream boards where people can talk about how wonderful they think vax is. 
 


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#80 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 07:58 PM
 
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No, i dont think there should be a pro vax forum/sub forum on here.  this is a natural family site, vax is not natrual.  JMO   there are plenty of mainstream boards where people can talk about how wonderful they think vax is.

 

Car seats aren't natural either, and neither is TV, so I guess the family safety and media forums are right out?

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#81 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 08:07 PM
 
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Car seats aren't natural either, and neither is TV, so I guess the family safety and media forums are right out?

Heck if you want to get technical, computers and laptops aren't completely green and natural either. What about c/s moms, should we kick them out too for being too medicalized in their birth experience?

If you start to have the attitude that no mom belongs here unless they lead the perfectly and completely ap natural life this place is going to become a barren wasteland since most of us cannot fit into that perfect mold.
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#82 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 08:11 PM
 
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Heck if you want to get technical, computers and laptops aren't completely green and natural either. What about c/s moms, should we kick them out too for being too medicalized in their birth experience?
If you start to have the attitude that no mom belongs here unless they lead the perfectly and completely ap natural life this place is going to become a barren wasteland since most of us cannot fit into that perfect mold.

 

Maybe too late.

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Maybe too late.

I've been a member here since 2001 before the great board crash and I have to agree which is really sad because I have found that mods and most members have become much more understanding and accepting in recent years greensad.gif
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#84 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 08:28 PM
 
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Car seats aren't natural either, and neither is TV, so I guess the family safety and media forums are right out?

carseats dont poison your body either


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#85 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 08:33 PM
 
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No, i dont think there should be a pro vax forum/sub forum on here.  this is a natural family site, vax is not natrual.  JMO   there are plenty of mainstream boards where people can talk about how wonderful they think vax is. 

 

What do you feel about the S/D sub forum then? Should MDC vax boards be solely for non vaxxers only?

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#86 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 08:43 PM
 
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#87 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 08:46 PM
 
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If people vaccinate according the CDC vaccination schedule (no delaying or selecting), they have the support of just about everybody in society. Do they really need a supportive forum just for them on Mothering.com?

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#88 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 08:50 PM
 
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And cars definitely aren't natural!

 

My larger point was that we use and do plenty of things that aren't natural, so breezing past 4 pages of this thread which has been a rather thoughtful discussion of the place of pro-vaxers on the MDC forums and posting "No, it shouldn't because vaccinations aren't natural" really isn't productive or helpful. IMO. While I think we can all agree vaccines do not exist in nature, it doesn't follow that there should not be a place to discuss them on MDC.

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#89 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 09:12 PM
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I think it's rude to suggest that MDC moms who have been here for YEARS and made massive contributions to this community should go somewhere else if they want to talk about vaccinating their children.  

 

No, vaccinations aren't natural.  Neither is the laptop I am using to access the internet so I can type this post.  I'll give a free pass on the "natural" issue to anyone who is using a telecommunications device that they personally hand-wove out of grass and leaves.  The thing that makes humans distinct from other species is the use of complex tools.  Those tools have been vital to human survival since well before the dawn of history (which began with the invention of writing, the technology I am using right now on my complex and unnatural laptop in order to communicate with other humans).  Left to its own devices, nature would have killed my dd at 20 months.  All it took to save her was the skilled use of a few, unnatural tools.  If nature had its way, I would have died at birth.  I take it a little personally when people criticize my decisions for being unnatural. 
 

There are many forums in the world where people talk about vaccination.  I am selective in the forums that I participate in.  I do not post my thoughts and questions to the world wide web in general.  I post here because MDC fits me well in many ways.  Several MDC mods have now popped in to this thread to point out that MDC's core principles do not include an anti-vax philosophy.  We don't promote CIO or circumcision here, but we DO promote thoughtful decision-making regarding what is right for individual families and discussions of those decisions.  Which includes vaccinating for many families. 

 

I don't care if there's an "I actually vaccinate" forum on MDC or not.  I can see an argument in favor of having such a forum in the same spirit as the argument for having a c-sections forum rather than just sending all the CS moms to "Healing Birth Trauma."  I can also see the argument that the Vaccinations forum is plenty of forum for everyone.  I think the current set-up, with a forum for non-vaxers, a forum for research that is somehow supposed to not have debate, a forum for people who sel/del vax, and a generic forum whose purpose is now unclear, is a little silly. 

 

The more important issue is the tone of the forum.  It's weird and inexplicable.  Why, for the past two days, has every thread with a pro-vax perspective led to people being interrogated about whether or not they dare to question Dr. Blaylock and his dietary recommendations/claims to cure cancer?  Just for example.

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#90 of 183 Old 06-08-2012, 09:13 PM
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If people vaccinate according the CDC vaccination schedule (no delaying or selecting), they have the support of just about everybody in society. Do they really need a supportive forum just for them on Mothering.com?

 

Judging from their presence here, the answer appears to be yes.

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