should there be a pro-vax forum? - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: Should there be a pro-vax forum? In the absence of such a forum, where should pro-vax friendly post
Yes, there should be an "I am vaccinating " forum 35 100.00%
No, there should not be a "I am vaccinating forum" 16 100.00%
Pro-vax friendly discussions belong in the Sel/Delayed 8 100.00%
Pro-vax friendly discussions belong on the main vaccination page 10 100.00%
pro-vax friendly can go in either; non-vax friendly can go in either 9 100.00%
pro-vax friendly can go in either, non-vax friendly should stay in non-vax 3 42.86%
other. Please explain. 4 57.14%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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#121 of 183 Old 06-09-2012, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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So I guess there should also be a pro-circ forum and a pro CIO forum.

Fwiw, I do not vaccinate.

 

I do not think pro-circ and CIO are in the same league as vaxxing at all.

 

Circ harms children.  CIO involves letting a baby cry until they exhaust themselves and give up.

 

Vaxxing does not harm most babies (aside from the poke). It has the potential to harm, but so does not vaxxing.  

 

Pro-circ and CIO are counter AP as far as I am concerned, but vaccinating (or not vaccinating) is not.

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#122 of 183 Old 06-09-2012, 03:57 PM
 
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Agree. Circumcising children and letting them cry themselves to sleep is harm.
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#123 of 183 Old 06-09-2012, 04:06 PM
 
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I agree with Kathy's post as well.

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#124 of 183 Old 06-09-2012, 05:30 PM
 
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I find it really sad that you are so threatened by the idea that others may choose to do things differently than you do.

Terrified would be a better word.

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#125 of 183 Old 06-09-2012, 06:07 PM
 
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Thanks to health issues, I'm sick, I'm in pain, and I have no patience, so forgive my curt responses. This has also been discussed multiple times.

Those who vax are welcome to post ANYWHERE in the vax forum, including INV. NONE of the vax areas are support-only, though they do have different guidelines to help members target in on the real issue.

MDC is not anti-vax.

MDC does not support *mandatory* vaccination. Health decisions should be made by informed parents and informed patients along with informed medical providers. MDC DOES support any parent who CHOOSES vaccinating on schedule through informed decision-making.

If you disagree, IMO, this is a reflection of either your perception OR of the environment all of us members have created. In either case, you have the power to change it.
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#126 of 183 Old 06-09-2012, 06:36 PM
 
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Quote:
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I find it really sad that you are so threatened by the idea that others may choose to do things differently than you do.

Terrified would be a better word.


Can you explain why you are terrified that mothers on MDC choose to vaccinate their children?
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#127 of 183 Old 06-09-2012, 06:38 PM
 
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Mosaic sorry you're not feeling well! Hope you feel better soon.
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#128 of 183 Old 06-09-2012, 06:47 PM
 
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nm.

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#129 of 183 Old 06-09-2012, 07:16 PM
 
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I have always thought Mothering (magazine and MDC) took an anti-vax position. I still have old back issues of the mag with huge articles about the dangers of vaxing. Did something change when I wasn't looking? MDC is definitely different in vibe from the original magazine, but I thought anti-vax was one of the pillars of "Natural Family Living" (isn't that the old by-line?), which is not necessarily 100% the same as AP (as if any two people could ever completely agree on what either of those are anyway). There are lots of topics that many "mainstream" mothers would argue don't harm the child, but most folks here don't choose, for instance, C-section on demand and GMO foods. So maybe I should have said there should be forums for women who want completely pain free medicalized hospital births and better gardening through chemistry.


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#130 of 183 Old 06-09-2012, 08:10 PM
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In my effort to reduce the extent to which my personal consumption of goods involves slave labor, I have recently started making an effort to avoid buying organic cotton clothing and fabric.  I feel strongly that this action is consistent with expressing caring and concern for humanity the way I strive to do for my children.  I also eat a lot of GMO foods.  They're much more affordable than organics and, in some cases, require fewer pesticides than organic products. 

 

Some women do want completely medicalized pain-free births.  Not me - I'm lucky.  I breezed through both my pregnancies and while labor was uncomfortable, it was bearable and short.  But who am I to judge women with complicated medical issues or traumatic personal histories or a different mindset about birth?  For some women it's a critically important moment, and for others it's a short, unpleasant thing that's required before you can hold the baby and start getting attached.

 

I don't know that natural family living has pillars.  There isn't a manifesto.  If you started one in another thread, I'm sure it would be an interesting and intense distraction from the craziness of the vaccine forum of late.  Whatever it is that posters at MDC share, it's not rigid adherence to any definable set of practices. 

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#131 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 08:44 AM
 
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#132 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 08:59 AM
 
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I'm really happy to see this discussion. I am a newbie who also thought Mothering was totally anti-vax. I avoided posting here for months because I felt like I wouldn't be welcome here. But I felt like I really fit in with the AP-style parenting, and so once I decided to post anyway, I have found a lot of support and community. But I have ignored the vaccination forums, and they always gave me belly rumblings when I looked at them.

 

It would be nice to have a pro-vaccination subforum, if only just to show people that Mothering takes a neutral stance on vaccination. Right now, because there are only subforums for people who don't vaccinate and those who selectively vaccinate, it makes it look like those who vaccinate on schedule aren't welcome on the forum.

 

I guess the other advantage is that people who are trying to make the vaccine decision would have somewhere to go where they could lurk and read the pro side. I know there are other areas on the internet where you can find support for vaccines, but it really is nice to know that vaccinating can be compatible with attachment-style parenting in specific, that's all.

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#133 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 09:05 AM
 
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Maybe I misread the focus of mdc when I first joined, but I thought primarily the focus was on gentle discipline, birth, and nursing and the rest was mostly details. The other things are things mdc and other posters present a viewpoint on so we can all make informed decisions but not requirements for being a member. I could of course be completely wrong because initially I was only interested in the parenting aspect so i could have just glanced over the requirements. In any case mdc has evolved a lot and imo it has been for the better because to me it is the parenting side that is most important.
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#134 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 09:16 AM
 
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#135 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 10:10 AM
 
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Quote:
I have always thought Mothering (magazine and MDC) took an anti-vax position. I still have old back issues of the mag with huge articles about the dangers of vaxing. Did something change when I wasn't looking? MDC is definitely different in vibe from the original magazine, but I thought anti-vax was one of the pillars of "Natural Family Living" (isn't that the old by-line?), which is not necessarily 100% the same as AP (as if any two people could ever completely agree on what either of those are anyway). There are lots of topics that many "mainstream" mothers would argue don't harm the child, but most folks here don't choose, for instance, C-section on demand and GMO foods. So maybe I should have said there should be forums for women who want completely pain free medicalized hospital births and better gardening through chemistry.

 

 

me too!

 

as I did post- I would like to see a real poll/survey that reflects this issue and others -so that it can show without this speculation what the views of current members really are- who is really benefiting and what do they want most out of here (all not just vac section)


 

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#136 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 10:54 AM
 
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I think that even among AP or natural parents, most parents vaccinate. Nationwide, about 0.05% don't. And, while there are more non-vaccinators on MDC than elsewhere perhaps, I wonder if pro-vaccinators feel they are in the minority because they actually are or because those opposed are more vocal? I'm for a pro-vaccination sub-forum or social group if it doesn't add to the already too many sub-forums. It's all about the safe haven, having a chance to work it out, talk it out. It's such a hard issue. Many of us make a decision by default. All sides should be represented and I'd hope a pregnant woman new to the vaccine issue could find a place to start here as well. 

 

 

Serenbat, Peggy already weighed in on this issue.  And I thought it was quite a fair observation on her part. 

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#137 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 11:12 AM
 
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Peggy already weighed in on this issue. 

 

 

where is the harm in transparence? let's poll members and know how they feel-many don't reply to these threads but would like their voices known-if it is, so be it but real numbers would be helpful in ALL areas on many hot button topics

 

if you want to serve your core membership why wouldn't you really want to see where they are?


 

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#138 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 11:16 AM
 
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I don't see how what the majority of mothering members think is really relevant. Unless you have a plan to one us off the island.
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#139 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 11:42 AM
 
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where is the harm in transparence? let's poll members and know how they feel-many don't reply to these threads but would like their voices known-if it is, so be it but real numbers would be helpful in ALL areas on many hot button topics

 

if you want to serve your core membership why wouldn't you really want to see where they are?

I don't have a problem with polling.  There is a large tolerant force here on MDC.  Tolerant enough to not begrugde members a place to go to discuss their C/S's.  But if tolerance is in question you might as well just say you personally will not tolerate AP mothers who discussing vaccination and their decisions.

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#140 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 11:48 AM
 
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I don't see how what the majority of mothering members think is really relevant

 

 

security or lack their of goes both way as well

 

majority membership dives many decisions to think otherwise is relevant-IMO

 

to be an open and welcoming place majority membership most definitely should factor here and other places on mothering- we should all be valued and stating the majority is one way or another is a big factor to many in the decision to feel secure in posting- if it's not, what is the goal?

 

I hear some who feel mothering is one way, others who don't know and still others afraid to post because of some members, I've seen people attacked because the feel only mothers (not dads) can post, etc- it just don't come across and very clear

 

if mothering stands on one issue such as pro-vac and anti-vac and that is what is of most use (helpfulness of the majority using the site) why not? if it not the majority that want something find another place to put the minority - mostly so it is easy for new members to understand (and feel non-threatened in doing so) and the majority to use it- it things change, change with the membership-reflect who makes up mothering


 

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#141 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 11:49 AM
 
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It's been stated numerous times that mothering is not ANTI VAX.  It's informed decision. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

 

 

security or lack their of goes both way as well

 

majority membership dives many decisions to think otherwise is relevant-IMO

 

to be an open and welcoming place majority membership most definitely should factor here and other places on mothering- we should all be valued and stating the majority is one way or another is a big factor to many in the decision to feel secure in posting- if it's not, what is the goal?

 

I hear some who feel mothering is one way, others who don't know and still others afraid to post because of some members, I seen people attacked because the feel only mothers can post, etc- it just don't come across and very clear

 

if mothering stands on one issue such as pro-vac and anti-vac and that is what is of most use (helpfulness of the majority using the site) why not? if it not the majority that want something find another place to put the minority - mostly so it is easy for new members to understand (and feel non-threatened in doing so) and the majority to use it- it things change, change with the membership-reflect who makes up mothering

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#142 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 12:36 PM
 
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I don't think what "mothering" thinks depends on what the majority of members think. It depends on what people like Peggy think.
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#143 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 01:41 PM
 
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I don't think what "mothering" thinks depends on what the majority of members think. It depends on what people like Peggy think.

I think it does matter what the majority of members think. That is Mothering's advertising base. and believe me - advertisers want to know who the user base is. I've worked in online advertising for many years which is how I know this. Advertisers are the dollars that now fuel this machine I'm sure --- and advertisers really don't care so much about what a person thinks as much as they do the users. 


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#144 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 02:41 PM
 
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I don't think what "mothering" thinks depends on what the majority of members think. It depends on what people like Peggy think.

mere opinion are you speaking for her?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
and believe me - advertisers want to know who the user base is.

I have been asked numerous times over the years when I have bought!Quote:

I don't see how what the majority of mothering members think is really relevant.

maybe the majority should be asked and we will see how relevant they are to the advertisers

 

 

 

PINK ribbon anyone? that is going so well isn't it?

 

$$$ do matter! 


 

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#145 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 02:56 PM
 
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Ok Serenbat if you want it so bad you should request that a poll is put in place that will be fair and accurate.  You can even make up the rules... only you can vote. 

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#146 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 03:10 PM
 
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Serenbat, Peggy DID speak to the issue - up thread a ways.
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#147 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 03:17 PM
 
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I even reposted it.  Pretty sure she saw it. 

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#148 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 03:18 PM
 
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Also 60 people have voted, do you not like the way it's leaning? 

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#149 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 08:00 PM
 
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I voted for a pro-vax forum, and I'm not even pro-vax.  The problem with a poll is that you have to be very specific.  Would the poll include that I feel pro-vaxxers might well use a safe space, but that I am not personally pro-vax-on-schedule?  That's always the trouble with polls.  My position (what the hell is my position???) would not be represented accurately, perhaps giving the false impression that there are more pro-vaxxers here?  Or the opposite?  I often side with non-vaxxers in these threads even though I'm not really a non-vaxxer (am I?? Not??  Aw geez.....)

 

It would be nice if, like many mods have pointed out of late, that the membership keep their comments civil and respectful.  MDC states their position (it could be in flashy red-and-yellow signage like its advertisers--just a suggestion!) and if that gets muddied or if people get the impression that this is not a "safe" place to post their questions because of the hostility, well, that is a problem with the membership.

 

Ideally, we could have one big "Vaccinations" forum, and people would keep debates nice and accessible and NOT SCARY and more people might feel comfortable no matter their position, and not be mislead into thinking "MDC is this or that".  MDC is for informed consent.  Like it or not, when we post about whatever side we are on.... or whatever.... our post reflects or represents our position.  Shouldn't be that way, but it does.  And since that is so, confrontational posts gives the impression that...... (drumroll, please.......) "anti-vaxxers" or "pro-vaxxers" are confrontational, or that MDC is confrontational..... or whatever.

 

This not being real-time conversation with no chance of deletion, we have time to consider our answers.  We have time to *not* post something obviously mean or offensive or inflammatory.  And if we accidentally write something that might hurt someones feelings, well that person can take a minute before they respond to see if they are reading it the wrong way or whether the person was purposefully being rude or chose some words that weren't really that  great (I offer as an example the recent thread about "proudly" vaccinating) and ask for clarification kindly, or just let it go.

 

I like to breathe a bit before I answer.  I like let out any verbal frustrations with a thread in my head or talking to myself around the house (batty old gal!) and hopefully I'll get my thoughts straight before I write.  I don't always do this well, so, oh brother! please don't go digging around for proof when this process has failed me!  (It's out there!)

 

But I think what MDC would like is for members to take some responsibility to keep their own posts in check.  Then--who knows?--we could get by with even one forum.  Folks could get the impression that "MDC has more non-vaxxers than pro-vaxxers like me, but the atmosphere is really open and friendly and informative."  Or (to be perfectly fair) vice versa.

 

Ideally.  Yup.  I chuckle to myself as I say this because if ideals were dollars, I'd be rich....... orngtongue.gif  (And I would really, really like to delete my verbal statements sometimes with a big "nm".  That would be handy!  Embarrassing in its own way, perhaps, but preferable at times....)

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#150 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 08:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I voted for a pro-vax forum, and I'm not even pro-vax.  

Very true.  I voted pro-vax forum and I am non- vax.

 

I think there are non vax who voted for a pro-vax forum and non -vax who voted against one.  I think there are pro-vax posters who voted for a pro-vax forum and those who voted against one.  

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