should there be a pro-vax forum? - Page 6 - Mothering Forums

View Poll Results: Should there be a pro-vax forum? In the absence of such a forum, where should pro-vax friendly post
Yes, there should be an "I am vaccinating " forum 35 100.00%
No, there should not be a "I am vaccinating forum" 16 100.00%
Pro-vax friendly discussions belong in the Sel/Delayed 8 100.00%
Pro-vax friendly discussions belong on the main vaccination page 10 100.00%
pro-vax friendly can go in either; non-vax friendly can go in either 9 100.00%
pro-vax friendly can go in either, non-vax friendly should stay in non-vax 3 42.86%
other. Please explain. 4 57.14%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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#151 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 08:42 PM
 
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I also voted for a pro vax forum and I am non vax myself. I'd enjoy reading the posts in it. I like to read arguments from those who think differently than I do, it's interesting and educational to me as long as everyone stays polite smile.gif

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#152 of 183 Old 06-10-2012, 08:57 PM
 
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I don't need to hang out here very much as I made my informed decision and I"m not too concerned about what others do.  I'm not sure what the issue is about too many subforums so I didn't vote. I would just like to point out the fact that there are a couple posters hanging around who have no problem implying that vaxing is akin to genital mutilation, leaving a crying baby in distress, or just plain child abuse perfectly illustrates that this forum is a hostile environment for people who vaccinate on schedule. 

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#153 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 05:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Hoopin' Mama View Post I would just like to point out the fact that there are a couple posters hanging around who have no problem implying that vaxing is akin to genital mutilation, leaving a crying baby in distress, or just plain child abuse perfectly illustrates that this forum is a hostile environment for people who vaccinate on schedule. 
 

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And a lot of threads in favor of vaccines get derailed randomly and spectacularly.

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#154 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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yeahthat.gif

 

And a lot of threads in favor of vaccines get derailed randomly and spectacularly.

To be fair, though, that happens to non-vax threads placed in the vax forum.  There is a lot of animosity, period, on this forum. 

 

Non-vaxxers do have a place to go when they want a thread not to be derailed, which is why (among other reasons) I support a pro-vax forum for the pro-vax camp.  

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#155 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 05:13 AM
 
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I don't need to hang out here very much as I made my informed decision and I"m not too concerned about what others do.  I'm not sure what the issue is about too many subforums so I didn't vote. I would just like to point out the fact that there are a couple posters hanging around who have no problem implying that vaxing is akin to genital mutilation, leaving a crying baby in distress, or just plain child abuse perfectly illustrates that this forum is a hostile environment for people who vaccinate on schedule

 

Needed to be repeated. Especially after MDC's official stance on vaccination has been stated several times by the moderators. And yet, no matter how offensive it is when people post that, it doesn't get taken down.

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#156 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 05:14 AM
 
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yeahthat.gif

 

And a lot of threads in favor of vaccines get derailed randomly and spectacularly.

To be fair, though, that happens to non-vax threads placed in the vax forum.  There is a lot of animosity, period, on this forum. 

 

Non-vaxxers do have a place to go when they want a thread not to be derailed, which is why I support a pro-vax forum for the pro-vax camp.  

 

People on the non-vax forum also theorize about how healthy their children are compared to vaxed children. There are lots of very judgmental people on this board.

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#157 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 06:22 AM
 
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People on the non-vax forum also theorize about how healthy their children are compared to vaxed children. There are lots of very judgmental people on this board.

I agree that it shouldn't be done in a judgemental way, but one of the reasons I (and many) do not vaccinate my children is because I believe they will be healthier.  There is nothing wrong with me (or others) asking questions to divine whether or not this is true.  In asking those questions, a person many need to make pointed references to irl examples.  It doesn't mean that it is true that non vaxed kids are healthier than vaxed kids (there are SO many variables!), but it does mean that the question is valid, and is not necessarily, a judgement.


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#158 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 06:23 AM
 
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I've changed my mind, by the way.  If a pro vax subforum is a way to keep the peace, and, more importantly, all for good solid discussion, then I'm all for it.

 

It does feel a bit like separating small children when they can't play nicely, though.


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#159 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 06:42 AM
 
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People on the non-vax forum also theorize about how healthy their children are compared to vaxed children. There are lots of very judgmental people on this board.

I agree that it shouldn't be done in a judgemental way, but one of the reasons I (and many) do not vaccinate my children is because I believe they will be healthier.  There is nothing wrong with me (or others) asking questions to divine whether or not this is true.  In asking those questions, a person many need to make pointed references to irl examples.  It doesn't mean that it is true that non vaxed kids are healthier than vaxed kids (there are SO many variables!), but it does mean that the question is valid, and is not necessarily, a judgement.

 

I have an uber healthy fully vaccinated 3yo shrug.gif . He's been sick before, no doubt. He's also in full time daycare so exposed to a crapload of germs (I work, if I didn't we would be homeless). He rarely gets antibiotics, and is only allergic to carpet which he inherited from me. He would probably be just as healthy if he were unvaxed, and probably would have gotten all the same illnesses (colds and stomach bugs).

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#160 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 07:19 AM
 
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People on the non-vax forum also theorize about how healthy their children are compared to vaxed children. There are lots of very judgmental people on this board.

 

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Originally Posted by Just1More View Post

I agree that it shouldn't be done in a judgemental way, but one of the reasons I (and many) do not vaccinate my children is because I believe they will be healthier.  There is nothing wrong with me (or others) asking questions to divine whether or not this is true.  In asking those questions, a person many need to make pointed references to irl examples.  It doesn't mean that it is true that non vaxed kids are healthier than vaxed kids (there are SO many variables!), but it does mean that the question is valid, and is not necessarily, a judgement.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super~Single~Mama View Post

 

I have an uber healthy fully vaccinated 3yo shrug.gif . He's been sick before, no doubt. He's also in full time daycare so exposed to a crapload of germs (I work, if I didn't we would be homeless). He rarely gets antibiotics, and is only allergic to carpet which he inherited from me. He would probably be just as healthy if he were unvaxed, and probably would have gotten all the same illnesses (colds and stomach bugs).

Substitute all the proper words and you have the exact thing that crops up on the unschooling and HSing forum from time to time in regards to those being better for children than public school.*  You can be so careful and you still can't escape it!!   And if you can't escape it, you just can't even talk about it which, frankly, sucks.

 

When I had 2 fully vaxxed kids, I had one of each.... one sick almost all the time and one so not sick it was like she had a germ deflector shield.  

 

*Just one example--not unique!


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#161 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 08:07 AM
 
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I don't need to hang out here very much as I made my informed decision and I"m not too concerned about what others do.  I'm not sure what the issue is about too many subforums so I didn't vote. I would just like to point out the fact that there are a couple posters hanging around who have no problem implying that vaxing is akin to genital mutilation, leaving a crying baby in distress, or just plain child abuse perfectly illustrates that this forum is a hostile environment for people who vaccinate on schedule. 

 

There have been posters who equate not vaccinating with child abuse as well.

 

Just because someone says it doesn't mean that's how the entire vaccinating or non-vaccinating group feels.  As with anything.

 

I've read comments around the internet that non-vaccinators should have their children taken away and/or watch them die of a VPD, and that it's Darwinism at its finest when people die of VPDs because of not vaccinating.  Talk about hostile.  That's more of the common view than the one example you cited.

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#162 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 08:25 AM
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Yes, and there have been posters here who claimed that people who vax are too brain-damaged to have conversations with.  I don't really care what happens around the internet - I'm not there to read it.  I care what happens here, because that is what is relevant to the current tone of hostility and anger here. 

 

There has been blatant bullying in the vaccine forums of late, and while I don't care how that gets addressed, I would like to see it stop.
 

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#163 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 09:55 AM
 
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^^^Yeah. I suspect the problem is not how people and viewpoints are distributed in the forums; it's that people can't talk respectfully to each other. A pro-vax forum won't fix that.

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#164 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 10:03 AM
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Needed to be repeated. Especially after MDC's official stance on vaccination has been stated several times by the moderators. And yet, no matter how offensive it is when people post that, it doesn't get taken down.

Just wanted to chime in that we do not read every single post.  It is quite possible that we missed something.  I won't lie, when you all get going you post FAST, and there are way less of us than there are of you. 

 

Report those things. Write in the comments section of the report why you are reporting and what is the problem. Please.


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#165 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 10:10 AM
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So I guess there should also be a pro-circ forum and a pro CIO forum.

 

Nope.  Mothering's position on those is different that it is on Vax.  We do not support Routine infant circumcision, so therefore will not have a pro-circ forum.  We also do not support CIO or other harsh sleep training methods, and thus will not have a pro-CIO forum.


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#166 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 10:22 AM
 
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^^^Yeah. I suspect the problem is not how people and viewpoints are distributed in the forums; it's that people can't talk respectfully to each other. A pro-vax forum won't fix that.



This. Not claiming I'm perfect, when I get my heels dug in I'm as pigheaded as anyone, but this is the real problem.
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#167 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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It does feel a bit like separating small children when they can't play nicely, though.

lol

 

This is a big part of it for me. 

 

None-the-less the fact MDC has a non-vax forum without a provax forum may come across as unwelocming to pro-vaxxers.

 

Moreover, it is nice to have conversations on a subforum where people often share a common foundation.  Many discussions get bogged down, not because of nastiness, but because of a lack of foundation.  People are not even talking the same language - so it is hard to get to whatever the meat of the matter is.   

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MDC does not have a pro circ forum do the circ mamas feel unwelcome here?


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#169 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 10:48 AM
 
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People on the non-vax forum also theorize about how healthy their children are compared to vaxed children. There are lots of very judgmental people on this board.

I agree that it shouldn't be done in a judgemental way, but one of the reasons I (and many) do not vaccinate my children is because I believe they will be healthier.  There is nothing wrong with me (or others) asking questions to divine whether or not this is true.  In asking those questions, a person many need to make pointed references to irl examples.  It doesn't mean that it is true that non vaxed kids are healthier than vaxed kids (there are SO many variables!), but it does mean that the question is valid, and is not necessarily, a judgement.

 

And really, you mean like this thread?

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MDC does not have a pro circ forum do the circ mamas feel unwelcome here?


Probably.
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MDC does not have a pro circ forum do the circ mamas feel unwelcome here?

Perhaps?  

 

 

MDC can make a line in the sand according to its philosophy.  Circ is against its philosophy.  AFAIK vaccinating is not against its philosophy.

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#172 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 11:20 AM
 
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^^^Yeah. I suspect the problem is not how people and viewpoints are distributed in the forums; it's that people can't talk respectfully to each other. A pro-vax forum won't fix that.

I think it will change things in the same way that having a traditional, homeschooling, unschooling, Waldorf, and Montessori forum help to keep the hositility down to a minimum around the issues of how we choose to educate our children.  Another hot button topic where the sides are seperated would be working mom's and stay at home mom's.  I think that it makes sense to keep both sides of a hot topic as seperate as possible.  I see a level of tension, bullying, and railroading on this board that is very rarely present on other boards because the set up is so thoughtful when it comes to the hard issues that parents have strong feelings about.

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Also I think enough of us are adult enough to squash the "I'm better than you talk" that will always happen.  If a vax forum pops up and someone new comes on bad mouthing non vaxxing moms it's easy for us to put on our big girl panties and say STOP!  This isn't what we want we don't want to bad mouth others for their beliefs we want to be able to discuss what's going on with our vaxxed children and ask around about how others are doing and what schedule they chose. 

 

Once people feel the need to bad mouth each other over their beliefs it points out their immaturity and their inability to be open minded and thoughtful. 

 

Obviously I've had my issues with a few people that I feel spread false information but I stayed out of the I'm not vaxxing and discussed those issues in the researching forum. 

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There have been posters who equate not vaccinating with child abuse as well.

 

Just because someone says it doesn't mean that's how the entire vaccinating or non-vaccinating group feels.  As with anything.

 

I've read comments around the internet that non-vaccinators should have their children taken away and/or watch them die of a VPD, and that it's Darwinism at its finest when people die of VPDs because of not vaccinating.  Talk about hostile.  That's more of the common view than the one example you cited.

About the bolded - yes, obviously. But it's still here and kind of crappy. 

Also, there's a lot of hateful garbage on the internet, but I'm talking about MDC.

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#175 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 02:06 PM
 
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MDC does not have a pro circ forum do the circ mamas feel unwelcome here?

Go to "Religious Studies" and ask.  Religious circ debate is absolutely *off the table* and yet I know there are plenty of folks there whose religion mandates it.  I don't get the impression that they feel unwelcome here, but I could be wrong.  

 

I will say this, to bring it back to the topic at hand:  one cannot make all people feel welcome.  One can be friendly, respectful, but I don't feel that there is anyway to make everyone to feel like they "belong" here.  

 

I might feel welcome at my sister's house, but with the TV on 24/7, even when no one's watching it, veiled homophobia popping up out of nowhere, super-Republican style conservativism, occasional derisive comments about this or that....  I love my sister, she loves me, and thankfully most of my visits are not a barrage of things that are difficult for me to handle and vice versa, but the fact remains that while I feel most welcome there, I just don't fit in with her world view or lifestyle much.  And she shouldn't have to change herself for me, and I shouldn't have to change myself for her.


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#176 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 02:41 PM
 
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MDC does not have a pro circ forum do the circ mamas feel unwelcome here?


Sorry. I get upset on that topic.
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#177 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 02:44 PM
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Jeez, I hope so. tomato.gif
How anyone could carve up perfectly healthy baby parts for looks is beyond me. I mean, why isn't that illegal?

This is not okay. 

 

We have mamas here who circa for religious reasons and this conversation does NOT belong on the Vax forum.

 

Time to get back on topic y'all. 


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#178 of 183 Old 06-11-2012, 05:13 PM
 
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This is not okay. 

 

We have mamas here who circa for religious reasons and this conversation does NOT belong on the Vax forum.

 

Time to get back on topic y'all. 

Yes, and I actually regret that I used the term genital mutilation in my post. I used it to make a point and because I know that's how it's often spoken of here. But do I say to a friend Oh, you genitally mutilated your son? Uh, no. That would make me a jerk. Okay, back on topic, I promise.

 

 

I do think the problem is the way people feel free to talk to/harshly judge others around here. Perhaps if people used their words they way they do when speaking to someone in person, it would go more smoothly. 

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#179 of 183 Old 06-12-2012, 12:13 PM
 
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OT-- Look up the word mutilation in the dictionary.  some people may not like the word but it is what it is regardless


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#180 of 183 Old 06-12-2012, 12:20 PM
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This is not relevant to this thread.  Period. Please, cease the discussion about the circ forum. 


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