should there be a pro-vax forum? - Mothering Forums
View Poll Results: Should there be a pro-vax forum? In the absence of such a forum, where should pro-vax friendly post
Yes, there should be an "I am vaccinating " forum 35 100.00%
No, there should not be a "I am vaccinating forum" 16 100.00%
Pro-vax friendly discussions belong in the Sel/Delayed 8 100.00%
Pro-vax friendly discussions belong on the main vaccination page 10 100.00%
pro-vax friendly can go in either; non-vax friendly can go in either 9 100.00%
pro-vax friendly can go in either, non-vax friendly should stay in non-vax 3 42.86%
other. Please explain. 4 57.14%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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#1 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 07:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Poll time.

 

Do you think there should be a pro-vax forum?  Why or why not?

 

In the absence of a pro-vax forum, where should posts that are designed as pro-vaxxers "talking amongst ourselves" go?  

 

TIA!

 

Kathy

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#2 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Can I edit a poll?  No, I cannot.

 

Ignore the word "no" in the second choice - I created a double negative.

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#3 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 08:21 AM
 
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I noticed when a mod pointed out to a pushy pro-vaxxer that she was posting in the "non-vax" forum.  Pro-vaxxers have no such place, all they can say is "this is a pro-vax thread".   Not very fair.  

 

So, unless the "vaccinations" forum becomes the de facto pro-vax forum, I think they should get their own.  Sel/Del vax is a relatively friendly place, and it's possible that could be a home for solidly pro-vax threads, but would that prevent the kinds of arguments we've seen here?  And would the Selective vaxxers appreciate being lumped with the "pro-vax" camp?

 

The forums could also be divided in such a way that there could be a place for folks to argue the entire topic without mod interference unless it gets personal.  I think things would get pretty boring if everyone was cordoned off from each other.  I have learned so much paying attention to these debates, and I don't think I would feel the same if their were no place where the two camps could clash.

 

In any other corner of society, pro-vaxxers would be in the majority and I wouldn't consider the need to give them cover from anti- and non-vax debates.  But here they are not, and the deserve the same "safe spot" that non-vaxxers get.


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#4 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 08:28 AM
 
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I am on my phone so I can't vote right now, but I dont see the point.
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#5 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 08:29 AM
 
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I'm not here to talk to other people who vaccinate and have my decision affirmed. I'm here to discuss things with people I disagree with and have my own beliefs challenged and hopefully do the same for other people. I dont see the point of a discussion forum that's set up to eliminate disagreement and therefore discussion.
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#6 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I'm not here to talk to other people who vaccinate and have my decision affirmed. I'm here to discuss things with people I disagree with and have my own beliefs challenged and hopefully do the same for other people. I dont see the point of a discussion forum that's set up to eliminate disagreement and therefore discussion.

 

Have you had your beliefs challenged in any significant way?

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#7 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 08:40 AM
 
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Have you had your beliefs challenged in any significant way?

 

Wasn't directed at me, but my opinions about how to interact with people with anti-vax beliefs have changed, as has my understanding of why parents would make those choices.

 

My beliefs about vaccines have not really changed. I've seen nothing convincing on the "vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases" argument. 


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#8 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 08:41 AM
 
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I think that the lack of this forum says something pretty telling about the views of the administrators of MDC. If they actually permit it, I am for it to bring some balance to the boards. I've always thought it was pretty ridiculous that there's a non-vaxxing and a selective/delayed vaxxing, but nothing aimed at people who vax on schedule. Though we skipped Hep B for the time being so technically are sel/del, though I'm very pro-vax.

 

BTW, the second poll option is perfectly okay, because the first "No" is its own clause and therefore does not cause a double negative. A double negative would be "There should not be no "I'm vaccinating" forum", or some such.


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#9 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 08:42 AM
 
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I was in another thread about this where the mod said the pro-vax location was the selective/delayed board (which can include selecting everything, and not delaying). My issue with that has been it seems mostly about how to get a Dr who supports a delayed schedule, and or how to get exemptions because of a selective or delayed schedule. I have little interest in those discussions. 


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#10 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 08:43 AM
 
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I did not realize that you were inviting disagreement with the studies you post.  I've had the impression that you are wanting to have your case affirmed.  I was feeling like arguments against your evidence on the threads you start, especially, were a bit invasive, but now I know otherwise.  

 

I do think there should be a clear demarcation between "support" and "debate", whether it is dividing the forums thus or some other solution.

 

Edited to add: wow this thread moved pretty fast.  I should have used "quote".  This comment was directed at Rrrrachel


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#11 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:02 AM
 
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I think we should do away with the subforums altogether. Vaccinations, come one, come all. No personal attacks. But debate? Game on.


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#12 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Here are the guideline on sel/delayed
 
The Selective and Delayed Vaccination forum hosts discussion for parents who have made the decision to vaccinate their children (or are making that decision and want information about selective and delayed vaccination) and are seeking the best approach possible. While we will not restrict posting in this forum only to members who have chosen to vaccinate, we will restrict posting to specific information that is appropriate for the forum purpose and the thread topic posted.

This forum is not a place to argue against selective or delayed vaccination or debate vaccination in general. Such discussions are already hosted in the main Vaccinations forum and posts in that vein are most welcome and appropriate there….
 
It seems, to me, that MDC is saying "vax friendly" posts belong on sel/delayed and debate belongs on the main vaccination page.  As such I think pro-vax only discussions (which are not debate) belong on sel/delayed at this point in time. 
 
I do understand the limitations of sel/delayed, however.  There is a world of difference between someone who only vaxxes for tetanus, and someone who vaxxes for almost everything and considers themselves pro-vax.
 
It is for this, and many other reasons (mostly listed by SweetSilver) that I think MDC should have a pro-vax forum.  
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#13 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laohaire View Post

I think we should do away with the subforums altogether. Vaccinations, come one, come all. No personal attacks. But debate? Game on.

hear hear.

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#14 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by laohaire View Post

I think we should do away with the subforums altogether. Vaccinations, come one, come all. No personal attacks. But debate? Game on.

I hope not.  I think a lot of non-vaxxers appreciate the non-vaccination forum.  There are some that post there that never post here. 

 

Not everyone wants debate - some do want support or information related to their decision.  

 

Debate is cool, too, hence this forum.  

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#15 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:17 AM
 
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Should there be a PRO-circ (circumcision) as well?

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#16 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:18 AM
 
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I think the official position is that circumcision is not compatible with mothering's beliefs, so topics that support circumcision are discouraged.  Officially mothering does not support or discourage vaccination.

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#17 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:20 AM
 
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Should there be a PRO-circ (circumcision) as well?

 

Circ and Vax are COMPLETELY different. If you think that vax is similar to circ....I guess I don't know what to tell you.

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#18 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:30 AM
 
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I agree that certain threads should be able to be marked support only. But I think they should be the exception, not the rule - that is, marked that way, and if it's not marked that way, then it's open.

 

If there is a culture of no personal attacks (and moderation to back it up) then this will serve everyone the best. Are we looking for a safe place to just go "yeah that!" or are we looking for the truth?


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#19 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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#20 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

 

Wasn't directed at me, but my opinions about how to interact with people with anti-vax beliefs have changed, as has my understanding of why parents would make those choices.

 

My beliefs about vaccines have not really changed. I've seen nothing convincing on the "vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases" argument. 

While vaccines were obviously more dangerous for my family than the diseases, that's not actually the point that many of us have been making, over and over, and for you to assume that that is the main argument against the current vaccine schedule is a huge mistake on your part.

 

The problems with today's vaccine program:

1) the rate of severe vaccine reaction is much higher than what is reported, because the reporting system is grossly inadequate, and because medical personnel are not trained to recognize severe vaccine reactions. If anything, they are trained to misdiagnose severe vaccine reactions as something else entirely.

2) The risk of complications from MANY of the "vaccine-preventable diseases" is much lower than what the medical community is taught. (Flu is a good example here.)

3) (For the sake of argument,  I'm going on the assumption that vaccines do just as much good as you say that they do, though I don't agree.)

The number of people with severe vaccine reactions (using today's vaccine schedule) is unacceptably high.

4) Parents and patients are not told of all the known risks for each vaccines, and are misinformed as to the risks of some of the diseases. Informed consent has been the law, but for decades, it has not happened.  In California, it is now LEGAL to give a 12-year-old child, even a mentally challenged or speech challenged child, hepatitis B and Gardasil without parental knowledge, so those parents would not even know that their child had been given a vaccine that may have been contraindicated.

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#21 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I think the official position is that circumcision is not compatible with mothering's beliefs, so topics that support circumcision are discouraged.  Officially mothering does not support or discourage vaccination.

That's interesting; what about those whose religion requires circumcision? (I'm not being argumentative here--I really don't know MDC's stance on that aspect of circumcision.)

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#22 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:39 AM
 
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I think they still dont' want you to start a thread extolling the virtues of and admonishing people to circ, regardless of your reasons.  I don't think there's a rule saying you can't post if your kid is circed.  

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#23 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:39 AM
 
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MDC's stance is that circumcision is not up for debate, and they don't host religious arguments for it either.

 

If people want to debate that, that's cool, but go over there to do it. Personally I don't think it's the same thing, and I don't see the point of bringing it up here other than to stir the pot maybe.


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#24 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:44 AM
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I'm just going to point out that we are looking at getting rid of many sub forums right now, so the likelihood that we will add a new one is slim.  

 

 

Bringing circ into this argument is not comparable nor relevant.

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#25 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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AdinaL - where should pro-vax posters who want to discuss an issue amongst themselves post?

 

Here or sel/delayed?

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#26 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 10:01 AM
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Main Vaccination forum.  


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#27 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 10:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Main Vaccination forum.  

Thanks for clarifying.

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#28 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 10:06 AM
 
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Bringing circ into this argument is not comparable nor relevant.

 

 

to me - I see much of the same (not saying mothering is one way or another and I do know mothering stance on circ) but many do and are very pro-vac and/or circ and still feel they belong here- I can see that some may desire that as well if a pro-vac does happen- just making that argument 

 

as it has been brought up other places, it "can" come off to some as confusing when certain stances are taken in one subject but not another by mothering 

 

frankly I do support less sub forms in certain areas-this being one, I would like wide open debate on all subject not selective-not just pro/con and together for the most part


 

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#29 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
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frankly I do support less sub forms in certain areas-this being one, I would like wide open debate on all subject not selective-not just pro/con and together for the most part

I would start by collapsing some of the less busy and less sensitive subforums….such as the tv/book/ etc division.  I would not start with a subforum that is meaningful to a large group of people.

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#30 of 183 Old 06-07-2012, 10:15 AM
 
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Okay, so if there isn't going to be a pro-vax forum and topics that are specifically soliciting pro-vax opinions are to be hosted in the main forum, can there be a guideline about anti-vaxxers keeping out of these threads? If we can never post a topic where we're looking specifically to hear from other pro-vax people without it getting derailed into a long debate, that means that specifically pro-vax topics are not, in practice, welcomed after all.

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