Vaccine Theory Questionable: Study by NIH? - Mothering Forums

Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-04-2012, 09:59 AM - Thread Starter
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Resistance Free Earth
Posts: 7,609
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)

http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012-07-04/vaccine-theory-proven-wrong-study-by-nih/

 

 

 

 

Quote:

It is held that adaptive immunity, that is, the creation of antibodies, is necessary to protect against many diseases. This idea is central to vaccination theory. The study produced in the journalImmunity(1) found that, in the case of vesicular stomatitis virus (VSV), that is not true. In fact, the implication is that no antibody response can be effective against rapidly replicating viruses, especially those associated with skin breaks like tetanus.

 

t
 
"There are only two mistakes you can make in the search for the Truth. Not starting, and not going all the way." ~ Mark Passio
Mirzam is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-04-2012, 10:04 AM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,145
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
I found a link to the original article after a little digging.

http://labs.idi.harvard.edu/vonandrian/Pages/_Moseman%20Immunity%20online%20'12.pdf

It seems to be talking about. Specific exception to the rule rather than something that turns all of vaccinology on its head. Basically saying some viruses replicate so quickly antibodies don't have time to do their job.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
Old 07-04-2012, 10:16 AM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,145
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Also from the article:

"Our experiments in mice that lack anti- bodies but possess B cells and normal lymphoid tissues confirm that both B cells and antibodies are critical to survive a systemic infection after i.v. bolus administration of VSV."

"Although neutralizing antibodies are undoubtedly effective prophylaxis against rhab- doviruses, our findings indicate that antibody therapy may be insufficient to treat existing rhabdoviral infections in nonimmune subjects, at least in the case of VSV. "

So the rabies vaccine is effective at preventing rabies, but not treating it once someone has been infected.

Starting to paint a very different picture then that Gaia health article.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
Old 07-04-2012, 10:21 AM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,145
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
I thought this was interesting, too, especially in light of the "the body is only prepared to handle toxins through the gut" argument that goes around.

"Most viral pathogens, including rabies and VSV, must breach the body’s external barriers to cause disease. Viruses deposited in the interstitial space of peripheral tissues are readily drained via lymph vessels to downstream LNs"
Rrrrrachel is offline  
Old 07-04-2012, 10:59 AM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)

I think we need to be very careful about jumping to sweeping conclusions.

 

I don't think the Gaia article/NIH study proves the vaccine theory wrong.  It shows that something different goes on in the case of VSV.

 

I think it shows that there is an enormous amount that is not completely understood, or even misunderstood, about immunity, autoimmunity, vaccines, etc.

 

One study doesn't prove an entire theory wrong, just as one study can't prove an entire theory right, either.  And flaws in studies are often not found until much later.

 

Let's try to avoid making the same mistakes made by those who look at the flawed Danish studies and scream out headlines like "Danish study proves vaccine/autism theory wrong!"

Taximom5 is offline  
Old 07-04-2012, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Resistance Free Earth
Posts: 7,609
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

I think we need to be very careful about jumping to sweeping conclusions.

 

I don't think the Gaia article/NIH study proves the vaccine theory wrong.  It shows that something different goes on in the case of VSV.

 

I think it shows that there is an enormous amount that is not completely understood, or even misunderstood, about immunity, autoimmunity, vaccines, etc.

 

One study doesn't prove an entire theory wrong, just as one study can't prove an entire theory right, either.  And flaws in studies are often not found until much later.

 

Let's try to avoid making the same mistakes made by those who look at the flawed Danish studies and scream out headlines like "Danish study proves vaccine/autism theory wrong!"

You are right, no one study can prove anything. However, the question remains does antibodies equal immunity? Medical science knows next to nothing about the immune system. Here are a series of articles by Hilary Butler on just how little medical science knows:

 

Back to Basics 

 

Eminence Based Medicine Part 1

 

Eminence Based Medicine Part 2

 

Eminence Based Medicine Part 3


t
 
"There are only two mistakes you can make in the search for the Truth. Not starting, and not going all the way." ~ Mark Passio
Mirzam is online now  
Old 07-04-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 97 Post(s)

I agree that it is questionable at best.

 

But perhaps you might like to change the title of the thread to something like "Vaccine Theory Questionable: Study by NIH?"  Otherwise, I think it opens the door to a Pandora's Box.

Taximom5 is offline  
Old 07-04-2012, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Resistance Free Earth
Posts: 7,609
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

I agree that it is questionable at best.

 

But perhaps you might like to change the title of the thread to something like "Vaccine Theory Questionable: Study by NIH?"  Otherwise, I think it opens the door to a Pandora's Box.

I don't appear to be able to.


t
 
"There are only two mistakes you can make in the search for the Truth. Not starting, and not going all the way." ~ Mark Passio
Mirzam is online now  
Old 08-19-2012, 04:15 AM
 
marsupial-mom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 807
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Mods, please change thread title!
marsupial-mom is offline  
Old 08-19-2012, 09:43 AM
 
WildKingdom's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 667
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Well, according to Mirzam's quote, the authors of the Gaia Health article think that tetanus is a virus.

 

That is enough to tell me I shouldn't waste my time reading any further.

WildKingdom is offline  
Old 08-19-2012, 09:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Resistance Free Earth
Posts: 7,609
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 134 Post(s)

No doctor they don't. The author is quoting another piece of research that demonstrates that a high level of antibodies is not necessarily protection against tetanus.
But it is fine with me if you don't want to "waste your time", it is obviously much more productive to make fun of non vaxers elsewhere.


t
 
"There are only two mistakes you can make in the search for the Truth. Not starting, and not going all the way." ~ Mark Passio
Mirzam is online now  
Old 08-19-2012, 01:37 PM
 
chickabiddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,435
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)

Why do you use "doctor" as a pejorative term?  I've seen you do that a few times.


Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
chickabiddy is offline  
Old 08-20-2012, 06:51 AM
 
Mosaic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: La vida loca
Posts: 3,953
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Keep it on TOPIC, not personal, folks.

I'll edit the title as requested.

Mi vida loca: full-time WOHM, frugalista, foodie wannabe, 10+ years of TCOYF 

 

R-E-S-P-E-C-T spells BRAND NEW User Agreement!!

Mosaic is offline  
 
User Tag List

Thread Tools


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off