Vaccine Controversy: A PubMed Compilation - 15 to start with - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#1 of 72 Old 07-11-2012, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Outside the hive mind
Posts: 7,302
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)

This is from the blog of a mother of a child damaged by vaccines.

 

http://www.regardingcaroline.com/pubmed

 

 

Quote:
Read the links to the right and the fifteen PubMed links below.  See what you 
think.  If you want more, there are many, many more.  You can search 
PubMed for keywords and read until your eyes are bleary.  And it's not just 
about autism.

If you have a child with any autoimmune condition: asthma, allergies, pandas, 
mitochondria disorder, adhd, diabetes, and so on...  sadly, you will find there 
are links to vaccines for all types of autoimmune disorders.   

Anecdotal no more.  You know where to look.  Check it out.  Pass it on.  

 


Rainbow.giftstillheart.gifsmile.gif

 

"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

Mirzam is online now  
#2 of 72 Old 07-21-2012, 12:07 AM
 
Xerxella's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 1,925
Mentioned: 72 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
What a wonderful insightful blog. I'm always encouraged to see the scientific studies come out that prove the dangers of vaccines.

Are there more lately, or am I just seeing more?

Married to one of the last good guys left Jim
Mom to AJ 4/07 and Genevieve 5/09

And then: I'm really, really tired of making angels.

But wait, could it really be true?


The whole story at: www.xerxella.blogspot.com
Xerxella is online now  
#3 of 72 Old 07-21-2012, 11:40 AM
 
tonttu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Amazing the length people will go to , to find somebody to blame ! 


vbac.gifafter 3 cs fambedsingle1.gifbfinfant.gifHappily single Momteapot2.GIFknit.gif

tonttu is offline  
#4 of 72 Old 07-22-2012, 10:25 PM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonttu View Post
Amazing the length people will go to , to find somebody to blame ! 

That seems rather callous. Did you even read what she wrote?

 

"Some people however, believe that what we want is someone / something to 

blame.  Something to pin our frustrations upon.  They say we go looking for a 
connection.  A connection to vaccines.  A link that might assuage our pain.  

But this is simply not so.  Not in our in our house.  I went looking, setting out 
not to find a link, rather to ease my worry. To reassure myself it could not be 
the vaccines we gave to her.

You see, linking autism to vaccines would be blaming no one but ourselves.

We were the ones who took her to the office.  My husband the one who signed
the consent forms... It was us.

Finding a link to vaccines would place the blame squarely on our own 
shoulders and is a much harder pill to swallow than a genetic condition.  After 
all if it were genetics, we could simply blame our parents -- and really, who 
doesn't like to blame their parents for their life's challenges?!

Try as I might though, the proof was there.  The more and more I read, the 
more and more the scientists were backing up what we had seen firsthand.
The vaccines harmed our daughter."

http://www.regardingcaroline.com/pubmed

Bokonon likes this.
ma2two is offline  
#5 of 72 Old 07-23-2012, 08:09 AM
 
tonttu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma2two View Post

Try as I might though, the proof was there.  The more and more I read, the 
more and more the scientists were backing up what we had seen firsthand.
The vaccines harmed our daughter."

http://www.regardingcaroline.com/pubmed

Vaccines are not harmful , they save lives and just because some , mostly discredited , scientists are trying to grasp at straws to find reasons , why people shouldn´t vaccinate their kids , does not make it solid truth !

So , yes , she is trying to find reasons to blame others , when it was most likely a genetic reason , why her daughter is handicapped , which is of course tragic , no matter why !

Masel likes this.

vbac.gifafter 3 cs fambedsingle1.gifbfinfant.gifHappily single Momteapot2.GIFknit.gif

tonttu is offline  
#6 of 72 Old 07-23-2012, 08:19 AM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonttu View Post

Vaccines are not harmful , they save lives and just because some , mostly discredited , scientists are trying to grasp at straws to find reasons , why people shouldn´t vaccinate their kids , does not make it solid truth !

So , yes , she is trying to find reasons to blame others , when it was most likely a genetic reason , why her daughter is handicapped , which is of course tragic , no matter why !

 

Of the studies she lists, which of those scientists have been discredited?

 

Do you believe that autism, the latest CDC statistics being 1 in 88 children, is a genetic epidemic?

ma2two is offline  
#7 of 72 Old 07-23-2012, 08:36 AM
 
tonttu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Well , I believe , that the reason , more kids are diagnosed , is because the way we diagnose now versus earlier , has been significantly improved and less kids with issues ( not only autism ) are falling through the raster 
 


vbac.gifafter 3 cs fambedsingle1.gifbfinfant.gifHappily single Momteapot2.GIFknit.gif

tonttu is offline  
#8 of 72 Old 07-23-2012, 09:11 AM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonttu View Post

Well , I believe , that the reason , more kids are diagnosed , is because the way we diagnose now versus earlier , has been significantly improved and less kids with issues ( not only autism ) are falling through the raster 
 

Do you believe that 30 years ago, when only 1 in 10,000 children were diagnosed with autism, all those doctors were grossly incompetent, to be misdiagnosing or not even noticing the vast majority of kids with autism?

 

Also, I would still like to know which scientists who conducted the studies referenced in the "regardingcaroline" blog have been discredited.

ma2two is offline  
#9 of 72 Old 07-23-2012, 01:29 PM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,706
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma2two View Post

Do you believe that 30 years ago, when only 1 in 10,000 children were diagnosed with autism, all those doctors were grossly incompetent, to be misdiagnosing or not even noticing the vast majority of kids with autism?

 

Also, I would still like to know which scientists who conducted the studies referenced in the "regardingcaroline" blog have been discredited.

 

I'm sure no-one thinks Doctors in the 1980s were incompetent, but the fact remains that Autism was less widely understood/thought about at that time, and so might not have been the first thing a Doctor would think of. It was only really recognised as a condition separate to mental retardation and other developmental disorders in the 1960s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism#History), so a lot of Doctors in the 1980s would have had their training before that, and or could have just not thought of it as a possibility. 

 

Autism has been in the news a lot in the last decade (ironically - in my opinion at least - partially thanks to the controversy over it's possible link to vaccines) so is clearly more in the minds of Doctors today, and they are therefore more likely to consider it as a diagnosis. 

 

 As to the studies in the blog - I'd have to follow all the links to get to the authors, and I think there are better uses of my time. I did notice that it only included links to studies possibly linking autism/allergies to immune system disorders and/or vaccination status, while I'm aware of just as many showing no link (for example the one we discussed here: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1353634/vaxxed-vs-unvaxxed-study/20). Funny they weren't included.... or maybe it's not. My point though is that it's hardly an unbiased literature review. 

 

If you want that, try the Cochrane Review (not for profit reviews of the medical literature and produces "opinion" pieces on it). For example: A Cochrane Systematic review in 2004 (this one: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14871632) found no difference in the rates of children with neurological problems between those who had had a DTP vaccine with or without an aluminium adjuvant.


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is offline  
#10 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 07:22 AM
 
MamaMunchkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 355
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

I'm sure no-one thinks Doctors in the 1980s were incompetent, but the fact remains that Autism was less widely understood/thought about at that time, and so might not have been the first thing a Doctor would think of. It was only really recognised as a condition separate to mental retardation and other developmental disorders in the 1960s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autism#History), so a lot of Doctors in the 1980s would have had their training before that, and or could have just not thought of it as a possibility. 

 

Autism has been in the news a lot in the last decade (ironically - in my opinion at least - partially thanks to the controversy over it's possible link to vaccines) so is clearly more in the minds of Doctors today, and they are therefore more likely to consider it as a diagnosis.

 

I'm sure no one would deny that better diagnosis contributes to the rate of increase of autism - the question is, how large is this effect?  How large is it compared to other possible causes?  What is the likelihood that better diagnosis corresponds to a 20% increase, 1900% or 20x increase, 100x increase?  How is this likelihood compared to the likelihoods of other possible causes?

There might also be time dependence, how long does it take before the effect takes place?  If the increase is due to better diagnosis, what is the probability that an increase of 10x is observed within a year?  5x within 5 years?  n times within m years?  Is there some characteristic time between when awareness sets in (say, use the time when some public announcement or news events) and a spike in diagnosis is observed?  Do data bear this hypothesis?

Another thing to look at would be the rate of autism in adults.  In the limit that better-diagnosis alone contribute to the increase and all other variables stay the same, the rate of autism in adult would be similar.  There are studies on rate of autism in adults but the ones I've found so far include adults that were on similar vax schedule - it would be useful to study adults that were on fewer-vax schedule(s) as kids. 

 

If anyone has links/stats on any of the above, please do share ... thanks.


Pro rights (vaxes).
MamaMunchkin is offline  
#11 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 08:28 AM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaMunchkin View Post

Another thing to look at would be the rate of autism in adults.  

I'm sure someone is going to post a link to the "study" that showed the same rate in adults. It was actually a questionnaire that asked things like, would you rather go to the library or a party? I haven't taken the test, but I remember reading the questions, and thinking I might count as "autistic" with their criteria. When you see how the "study" was done, it's so obvious they were just doing anything they could for the results to be about 1 in 100 for adults. So, so, obvious. But they got the desired result, and the media headlines, and people on message boards, saying, "See?!! It's the same in adults!"

ma2two is offline  
#12 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 08:34 AM
 
tonttu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma2two View Post

Do you believe that 30 years ago, when only 1 in 10,000 children were diagnosed with autism, all those doctors were grossly incompetent, to be misdiagnosing or not even noticing the vast majority of kids with autism?

 

Also, I would still like to know which scientists who conducted the studies referenced in the "regardingcaroline" blog have been discredited.


Was going to respond to that , but prosciencemum beat me to it !

And honestly , couldn´t have written it better ( most likely not even as good winky.gif )

 


vbac.gifafter 3 cs fambedsingle1.gifbfinfant.gifHappily single Momteapot2.GIFknit.gif

tonttu is offline  
#13 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 08:43 AM
 
canadianhippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Georgian Bay, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonttu View Post

Vaccines are not harmful 

 

 

spitdrink.gif

 

 

Im sure the aborted and killed babies were harmed....you know a few vax's are harvested with fetal abortion tissue right? ew and cruel 


A Toronto born young mama blowkiss.giffreshly moved for a new adventure in ALBERTA! with Superdaddy superhero.gifand her intact and vax free, breastfed and babyworn Aug09 babenono02.gif attending college for early childhood educationwhale.gif   and being blessed with #2 just in time for Valentines Dayheartbeat.gif pos.gif

canadianhippie is offline  
#14 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 08:45 AM
 
Bokonon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianhippie View Post

 

 

spitdrink.gif

 

 

Im sure the aborted and killed babies were harmed....you know a few vax's are harvested with fetal abortion tissue right? ew and cruel 

 

This is not exactly accurate - the babies in the 1960s were not aborted with the purpose of creating vaccine lines.

 

It's still a disturbing thing though.


A, jammin.gif mama to a boy (2005) and a girl (2009)
Bokonon is offline  
#15 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 08:46 AM
 
Bokonon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonttu View Post

Vaccines are not harmful , they save lives and just because some , mostly discredited , scientists are trying to grasp at straws to find reasons , why people shouldn´t vaccinate their kids , does not make it solid truth !

So , yes , she is trying to find reasons to blame others , when it was most likely a genetic reason , why her daughter is handicapped , which is of course tragic , no matter why !

 

You cannot say that vaccines are not harmful.  There are KNOWN and compensated adverse effects of vaccines, including deaths.  There is a huge difference between believing that the benefits outweigh the risks and saying that they are not harmful, ie., that there is no risk.

shiningpearl likes this.

A, jammin.gif mama to a boy (2005) and a girl (2009)
Bokonon is offline  
#16 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 09:35 AM
 
ma2two's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,465
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post

This is not exactly accurate - the babies in the 1960s were not aborted with the purpose of creating vaccine lines.

 

Who can know for sure at this point? Were the women given an extra little nudge to get an abortion they weren't sure about?

 

"A Brief History of Human Diploid Cell Strains" by Rene Leiva, M.D.

http://www.wellnesscenter.net/resources/articles/History_of_Cell_Lines_NCBC_credit_line-1.pdf

ma2two is offline  
#17 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Outside the hive mind
Posts: 7,302
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma2two View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MamaMunchkin View Post

Another thing to look at would be the rate of autism in adults.  

I'm sure someone is going to post a link to the "study" that showed the same rate in adults. It was actually a questionnaire that asked things like, would you rather go to the library or a party? I haven't taken the test, but I remember reading the questions, and thinking I might count as "autistic" with their criteria. When you see how the "study" was done, it's so obvious they were just doing anything they could for the results to be about 1 in 100 for adults. So, so, obvious. But they got the desired result, and the media headlines, and people on message boards, saying, "See?!! It's the same in adults!"

 

 

ma2two, I agree with you. The diagnosis of adult autism or aspergers is a pharmceutical industry marketing campaign, albeit somewhat hidden through apparent independent support groups, organizations etc. It is a known marketing strategy for all mental health "diseases". It has the benefit of both selling drugs to yet more of the adult population and flogging the better diagnosis story for the increase in autism in children.


Rainbow.giftstillheart.gifsmile.gif

 

"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

Mirzam is online now  
#18 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 11:52 AM
 
MamaMunchkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 355
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ma2two View Post

I'm sure someone is going to post a link to the "study" that showed the same rate in adults. It was actually a questionnaire that asked things like, would you rather go to the library or a party? I haven't taken the test, but I remember reading the questions, and thinking I might count as "autistic" with their criteria. When you see how the "study" was done, it's so obvious they were just doing anything they could for the results to be about 1 in 100 for adults. So, so, obvious. But they got the desired result, and the media headlines, and people on message boards, saying, "See?!! It's the same in adults!"

 

Sigh ... yes, I'm afraid you're right ...

 

Back to the studies.  I don't remember the details - wasn't there a study done in the UK, they got the 1:100 ratio but somehow didn't get the 1:4 ratio for gender?

 

Still looking, still waiting ... studies of autism rate in pre/low-vaxed adults vs the current rate ... Anyways ...


Pro rights (vaxes).
MamaMunchkin is offline  
#19 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 01:58 PM
 
tonttu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 489
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post

 

You cannot say that vaccines are not harmful.  There are KNOWN and compensated adverse effects of vaccines, including deaths.  There is a huge difference between believing that the benefits outweigh the risks and saying that they are not harmful, ie., that there is no risk.


Well , there is a risk in everything one does in life . But it is also a known fact , that the illnesses , vaccines prevent , can be and are many times deadly or cause at least severe side effects and long-term problems .


vbac.gifafter 3 cs fambedsingle1.gifbfinfant.gifHappily single Momteapot2.GIFknit.gif

tonttu is offline  
#20 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 03:10 PM
 
emmy526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,650
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonttu View Post


Well , there is a risk in everything one does in life . But it is also a known fact , that the illnesses , vaccines prevent , can be and are many times deadly or cause at least severe side effects and long-term problems .

and some of us prefer not to take the 'risks' associated with vaccines...and my son has life long problems from his vaccines...i preferred not to take any more risks with his siblings either.  

emmy526 is online now  
#21 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 04:02 PM
 
Bokonon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonttu View Post


Well , there is a risk in everything one does in life . But it is also a known fact , that the illnesses , vaccines prevent , can be and are many times deadly or cause at least severe side effects and long-term problems .

 

But saying that vaccines are not harmful is just an outright lie.  It is a known fact that vaccines can be deadly and cause severe side effects and long-term problems.  It's swapping one set of risks for another.  


A, jammin.gif mama to a boy (2005) and a girl (2009)
Bokonon is offline  
#22 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 04:23 PM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,154
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Mama munchkin, in a thread awhile ago (maybe the misleading reports about autism data thread?). Posted several studies that found the rates in adults were pretty close to or the same as the rates in children. I can't remember them all, now, but they're out there.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#23 of 72 Old 07-24-2012, 09:55 PM
 
MamaMunchkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 355
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

Mama munchkin, in a thread awhile ago (maybe the misleading reports about autism data thread?). Posted several studies that found the rates in adults were pretty close to or the same as the rates in children. I can't remember them all, now, but they're out there.

 

I just looked thru the thread and saw some links on rates in young adults.  It's not clear that this population receive a substantially fewer number of vaxes than the current generation, but at the same time it's not clear how to decide what's too few, ok, and too many.  It's very likely I missed some other links ...

 

Anyway, trying something else - so, based on this:

http://www.chop.edu/service/vaccine-education-center/vaccine-schedule/history-of-vaccine-schedule.html

 

If counting correctly - there are 9 distinct schedules.  It would be interesting to find studies on how autism rates may or may not depend on these schedules.

 

So, what is the autism rate in the population who was vaxed with the 1950s schedule?  For those vaxed with the 1960s schedule?  Etc, etc, up to the most current schedule. 

 

Looking ... autism rates in the population partitioned by the distinct vax schedules - in the US, btw ... looking ...


Pro rights (vaxes).
MamaMunchkin is offline  
#24 of 72 Old 07-25-2012, 02:24 AM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,154
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I've looked at autism rates in countries with various vaccine schedules before, too. I didn't find a substantial difference in rates in the us vs. countries with fewer vaccines.

I really thought some of those studies were in older populations. I'll see what I can turn up later.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#25 of 72 Old 07-25-2012, 04:43 AM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,706
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianhippie View Post

 

 

spitdrink.gif

 

 

Im sure the aborted and killed babies were harmed....you know a few vax's are harvested with fetal abortion tissue right? ew and cruel 

 

So the vaccines developed using cells from aborted babies were mentioned in the Coursera Vaccine course I'm currently doing (see other thread), and your comment got me interested. So I did a little research to find out more about the 2 abortions on which the development of several vaccines were based. 

 

From here: http://www.historyofvaccines.org/content/articles/human-cell-strains-vaccine-development

 

 

 

Quote:
"In total only two fetuses, both obtained from abortions done by maternal choice, have given rise to cell strains used in vaccine development. Neither abortion was performed for the purpose of vaccine development."

 

 

But you might like more detail. Also some sites claim 3 abortions (which is incorrect as I'll explain below). 

 

Abortion 1. Rubella vaccine was deveoped from a fetus aborted following a case of rubella in the pregnant mother in 1961 (in the US; abortion was at around 12 weeks). Abortions following a case of rubella in the mother were not uncommon at this time as a significant fraction of the babies born following rubella infection has series congenital defects. This is the source of cell line WI-38. This is sometimes also (incorrectly) called RA 27/3 cell line (hence sometimes 3 sources of fetal cells are cited), but it's one abortion, and RA 27/3 refers to the virus taken from the tissue, WI-38 to the cells themselves. 

http://www.viromed.com/services/product/wi38.htm

 

So this abortion fairly clearly not done for the purpose of developing a vaccine, but rather a common (at the time) sad result of a rubella infection in a pregnant woman and the resulting concerns over likely disability in the baby. 

 

Abortion 2. Happened in 1965 in the UK, resulted in cell line MRC-5 (http://www.viromed.com/services/product/mrc5.htm)

Male fetus aborted at 14 weeks. 

 

Says in addition here http://ccr.coriell.org/Sections/Search/Sample_Detail.aspx?Ref=AG05965-C&PgId=166 that the abortion was for psychiatric reasons from a physically healthy 27 year old woman. 

 

Sounds like a possibly interesting story there to be found. Am I applying a misconception that "psychiatric reasons" are often applied to abortions following rape? 

 

By the way all this reminds me of the amazing story of Henrietta Lack and the cell line (HeLa) which came from her cervical cancer. If you haven't read that I encourage you to do so: 

(Amazon uk: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Immortal-Henrietta-Lacks-Thorndike-Nonfiction/dp/1410427927)


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is offline  
#26 of 72 Old 07-25-2012, 04:47 AM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,706
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)

Has anyone looked at autism rates following early vaccination tests? 

 

One thing which stuck in my mind from the first video of the Vaccine course was this: 

 

 

 

Quote (from my course notes):

Salk trial in 1950s (through March of Dimes)

 

420,000 children given polio vaccine (thimerosol preserved)

200,000 children given placebo (with thimerosol but not attenuated polio)

1.2 million control sample not innoculated

 

Realise there are problems with autism as a recognised condition in that era, but some of those children should still be alive today and could be tested for signs of autism. Surely enough for a major study..... Of course they might have had a lot more vaccines in the mean time. Keep meaning to look if any longitudinal studies have been done on those groups.


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is offline  
#27 of 72 Old 07-25-2012, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
Mirzam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Outside the hive mind
Posts: 7,302
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

. Keep meaning to look if any longitudinal studies have been done on those groups.

Not a study, but have you ever watched the 7 (maybe Seven) Up documentary series which followed a diverse group of children born in Britain in 1957? The documentary, made by the same film maker followed them from seven years old every seven years. The last being when they were 49*. Not an autistic kid among them. Not scientific, but well worth watching anyway. 

 

ETA. *it seems like 56 Up has been made and already shown on TV.


Rainbow.giftstillheart.gifsmile.gif

 

"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

Mirzam is online now  
#28 of 72 Old 07-25-2012, 07:01 AM
 
canadianhippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Georgian Bay, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bokonon View Post

 

This is not exactly accurate - the babies in the 1960s were not aborted with the purpose of creating vaccine lines.

 

It's still a disturbing thing though.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianhippie View Post

 

 

spitdrink.gif

 

 

Im sure the aborted and killed babies were harmed....you know a few vax's are harvested with fetal abortion tissue right? ew and cruel 

 

 

Women were NOT given abortions for the use of vaccines....I did not imply that, it is not true

 

An abortion kills a baby(they are harmed).....that tissue is used to harvest vaccines....that is injected into your child's bloodstream beginning at 2 months, thats all that comment stated. 

 

They also use fetal pig tissue and harvest in horses, apparently all molecules are filtered out upon completion

 

 

All of this information is from Your Child's Best Shot book, it is a PRO-VAX book written by Dr. Ronald Gold, the former chief of infectious diseases at Sick Kids hospital in Toronto, he is highly regarded for his knowledge by the Canadian Paediatric Society 

 

This book is fantastic, it tells you how the vaccines are made, what the illnesses are, what the symptoms are, how they can be treated if your child becomes infected and solidified my concern to not vaccinate and that god forbid, my child catches an illness (because even vaccines do not protect you if you are around an infected person) that he wouldn't die contrary to popular belief, there are numerous effective treatments. Alot of these "deadly" diseases are like any other disease, without treatment, it can progress to a dangerous level, if you are aware of symptoms and seek medical care, you should make it out just fine.

 

HIGHLY recommend this book, just ignore the "and you should vaccinate" at the end of each disease chapter blahblah.gif


A Toronto born young mama blowkiss.giffreshly moved for a new adventure in ALBERTA! with Superdaddy superhero.gifand her intact and vax free, breastfed and babyworn Aug09 babenono02.gif attending college for early childhood educationwhale.gif   and being blessed with #2 just in time for Valentines Dayheartbeat.gif pos.gif

canadianhippie is offline  
#29 of 72 Old 07-25-2012, 07:34 AM
 
Adaline'sMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 4,792
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Since the users of MDC agree not to debate abortion (which , IMO, includes making comments like "ew" or "gross" when referring to abortion) I think we better let this part of the topic go.


If there is going to be a autism because of vaccines debate, maybe it should be one of those formal debates so that reliable sources are used and it's not just one more thread where people are stating their opinions as medical science?

Holly and David partners.gif

Adaline love.gif (3/20/10), and Charlie brokenheart.gif (1/26/12- 4/10/12) and our identical  rainbow1284.gif  twins Callie and Wendy (01/04/13)

SIDS happens. 

Adaline'sMama is offline  
#30 of 72 Old 07-25-2012, 07:41 AM
 
canadianhippie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Georgian Bay, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 456
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adaline'sMama View Post

Since the users of MDC agree not to debate abortion (which , IMO, includes making comments like "ew" or "gross" when referring to abortion) I think we better let this part of the topic go.
If there is going to be a autism because of vaccines debate, maybe it should be one of those formal debates so that reliable sources are used and it's not just one more thread where people are stating their opinions as medical science?

changed it Adaline'sMama...My writing gets the best of me sometimes, I rather you point it out than an admin!  lol 


A Toronto born young mama blowkiss.giffreshly moved for a new adventure in ALBERTA! with Superdaddy superhero.gifand her intact and vax free, breastfed and babyworn Aug09 babenono02.gif attending college for early childhood educationwhale.gif   and being blessed with #2 just in time for Valentines Dayheartbeat.gif pos.gif

canadianhippie is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off