Research article: Self-Organized Criticality Theory of Autoimmunity - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 03:07 PM
 
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It's dangerous to those who would remain vaccine free and still get an AI.  What would you tell them then?  I DO NOT disagree that vaccines can trigger an auto immune response, I think it's irresponsible to point only to vaccines when discussing AI's.  It's irresponsible to not explain that they are hereditary and predominately occur in women. 

 

This is not a pissing match.  I'm not doing that.  I'm telling you that you're not giving all the information and I'm not sure what that does for you but it doesn't help people searching that's for sure.

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#32 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 03:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It's dangerous to those who would remain vaccine free and still get an AI.  What would you tell them then?  I DO NOT disagree that vaccines can trigger an auto immune response, I think it's irresponsible to point only to vaccines when discussing AI's.  It's irresponsible to not explain that they are hereditary and predominately occur in women. 

 

This is not a pissing match.  I'm not doing that.  I'm telling you that you're not giving all the information and I'm not sure what that does for you but it doesn't help people searching that's for sure.

Okay, I think I understand the problem, I am not saying that vaccines are the one and only cause of autoimmune diseases. But I have no idea what you mean by the statement "It's dangerous to those who would remain free and still get an AI" Do you mean that if people forgo vaccines because they are concerned about autoimmune diseases then they are putting themselves at risk for the consequences, ie dying of a VPD? And then they get an autoimmune disease from some other means? If that is the case, is it not up to the individual to make that judgement call? It is not my responsibility to "give all the information", you are welcome to chime in with your opinion, as you have done. 


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#33 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 03:34 PM
 
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I'm saying that if someone were to forgo vaccines thinking that that would mitigate the chance of triggering an AI and they still got one they would have acted on false information. If they didn't understand that there were so many other ways and reason for AI's. 

 

When presenting information about AI's and vaccines it's important to also explain all the other things as well.  BECAUSE AI's fricking suck.  They suck to hell and back and letting people know that just because they missed it with their childhood rounds of vaccines doesn't mean that an elective surgery or any other trauma inducing situations couldn't trigger an AI response. 

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#34 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 03:46 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I guess I give people more credit than you do. I doubt anyone would believe that vaccines are the only cause of autoimmune diseases and would be totally shocked that their unvaxed child got one, believing they would be "bullet proof". However, I am going to stick my neck out and say childhood vaccines are likely a primary cause of autoimmune disorders in babies and children. I am sure autoimmune diseases suck and I am eternally thankful that no one in my immediate family has one.


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#35 of 50 Old 08-19-2012, 05:39 AM
 
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I guess I give people more credit than you do. I doubt anyone would believe that vaccines are the only cause of autoimmune diseases and would be totally shocked that their unvaxed child got one, believing they would be "bullet proof". However, I am going to stick my neck out and say childhood vaccines are likely a primary cause of autoimmune disorders in babies and children. I am sure autoimmune diseases suck and I am eternally thankful that no one in my immediate family has one.

 

 

That assumption is incorrect. 

 

http://www.childrenshospital.org/az/Site614/mainpageS614P1.html

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Causes

The exact reason that some children’s immune systems begin attacking their own bodies is still a mystery. But we do know that autoimmune diseases are not contagious, and they don’t appear to be caused by any one thing in particular. Instead, scientists believe there’s a multi-step process at work: 

  • Heredity: A child inherits certain genes from her parents that make her susceptible to a particular disease.
  • Environmental factors: The disease doesn’t actually reveal itself until it’s “triggered” by something—an infection, say, or exposure to certain toxins or drugs.
  • Hormonal factors: Given that many autoimmune diseases tend to affect adolescent girls and young women, the presence or amount of certain naturally occurring hormones in the body may also play a role in when these illnesses come to the fore.  

Researchers are now working to discover which genes are involved and how they interact—and are likewise investigating a number of potential environmental and hormonal triggers—in order

 

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#36 of 50 Old 08-19-2012, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Causes

The exact reason that some children’s immune systems begin attacking their own bodies is still a mystery. But we do know that autoimmune diseases are not contagious, and they don’t appear to be caused by any one thing in particular. Instead, scientists believe there’s a multi-step process at work: 

  • Heredity: A child inherits certain genes from her parents that make her susceptible to a particular disease.
  • Environmental factors: The disease doesn’t actually reveal itself until it’s “triggered” by something—an infection, say, or exposure to certain toxins or drugs.
  • Hormonal factors: Given that many autoimmune diseases tend to affect adolescent girls and young women, the presence or amount of certain naturally occurring hormones in the body may also play a role in when these illnesses come to the fore.  

Researchers are now working to discover which genes are involved and how they interact—and are likewise investigating a number of potential environmental and hormonal triggers—in order

 

 

Well, after this research one of the reasons isn't such a mystery. Maybe the writer of this article from Boston's Children's Hospital would do well to read this study. Again, I repeat the mice were bred to have no genetic disposition to autoimmune disease, the sole reason for the mice's autoimmunity was the "vaccines". 


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#37 of 50 Old 08-19-2012, 08:41 AM
 
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So on this study alone you're going to say all the other research is mute?  The large AI community should stop everything they're doing and read this one peer review because it explains it all?  That children with AI's would never have them had their brainwashed parents not gotten them vaccinated?  That's some mighty big finger pointing don't you think? 

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So on this study alone you're going to say all the other research is mute?  The large AI community should stop everything they're doing and read this one peer review because it explains it all?  That children with AI's would never have them had their brainwashed parents not gotten them vaccinated?  That's some mighty big finger pointing don't you think? 

No I am not saying that. As far as I am concerned this pissing match is finish. To others reading this, please make what you will of this research. It is just one piece of the puzzle, but it seems a very important one to me.


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#39 of 50 Old 08-19-2012, 08:56 AM
 
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No it's not a piece of the puzzle.  Mirzam this is not a pissing match.  I have given you ample opportunity to support your theory and you haven't done anything but point back to the peer review you originally offered.  I've given you reasons as to why it is inaccurate and you refuse to look outside the box.  That is why I said it was dangerous.  Also you do not have an AI as you have already admitted, for people who suffer with them telling them it's all their fault is quite ugly.  Telling a parent they alone have caused their childs pain is cruel.    AND IT'S NOT TRUE!  I have given you more than one place of reference and I have not disagreed that vaccines can trigger a dormant disease in the body and you do not want to see it as anything but the sole cause.  Which means this can't be a discussion if only one side wants to talk instead of just wanting to be right.

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#40 of 50 Old 08-20-2012, 04:28 AM
 
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Anecdotally, one of my two children was diagnosed with Celiac at age 6, prior to receiving any vaccinations.  So just in the unlikely case that anyone still reading is entertaining the idea that autoimmune disease might be unknown in unvaccinated children ...

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#41 of 50 Old 08-20-2012, 09:54 AM
 
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Anecdotally, one of my two children was diagnosed with Celiac at age 6, prior to receiving any vaccinations.  So just in the unlikely case that anyone still reading is entertaining the idea that autoimmune disease might be unknown in unvaccinated children ...


I have been looking into epigenetcs lately and am wondering how much our vaccinations as parents or even grandparents may play a role in the development of AIs.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1952313,00.html

 

 

I also personally know a lot of people who did not at all or just briefly breastfed their babies. There are just so many factors that need to be considered and in our modern world anything could be possible or even just the adding up of everything. Who really knows.


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#42 of 50 Old 08-20-2012, 11:01 AM
 
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I have been looking into epigenetcs lately and am wondering how much our vaccinations as parents or even grandparents may play a role in the development of AIs.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1952313,00.html

 

 

I also personally know a lot of people who did not at all or just briefly breastfed their babies. There are just so many factors that need to be considered and in our modern world anything could be possible or even just the adding up of everything. Who really knows.

Thanks so much for the article!


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#43 of 50 Old 08-21-2012, 11:10 PM
 
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There are so many challenges (chemicals, pesticides, fungus) to our immune systems in the day to day environments that we are exposed to; it seems unreasonable to say that autoimmune disorders are causally linked to vaccines when there are so many things that could be the source of "celiac disease years later".  It may be another good reason to request vaccines free of (or low in) mercury or aluminum which many conscientious pediatricians are glad to get for you, especially since there are plenty of other sources of these metals that we will be exposed to.

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#44 of 50 Old 08-21-2012, 11:16 PM
 
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I don"t think it is unreasonable to suggest that they may be a cause. Not enough research has been done and none likely ever will be done. Low mercury is still mercury...and it can still be enough to do damage.

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#45 of 50 Old 08-22-2012, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The researchers did not inject mercury or aluminum into the mice, only antigens.


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#46 of 50 Old 08-22-2012, 06:20 AM
 
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The researchers did not inject mercury or aluminum into the mice, only antigens.


They cannot inject mercury and aluminum into mice at the same time b/c that will kill all their mice. Period.


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#47 of 50 Old 08-22-2012, 06:27 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am aware of that, I just wanted to point out that there were no excipients or preservatives used in the injections on the mice.


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#48 of 50 Old 08-22-2012, 07:40 AM
 
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I am aware of that, I just wanted to point out that there were no excipients or preservatives used in the injections on the mice.


Oh, I was just posting that fact for others who might not be aware of that yet. Thanks


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#49 of 50 Old 08-31-2012, 10:23 AM
 
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Any trauma to the body can trigger an autoimmune reaction.  ANY!

 

I know that is true from what I've read and also from personal experience.

 

That is a very good reason to avoid easily avoidable traumas, including vaccination.

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#50 of 50 Old 09-22-2012, 06:57 PM
 
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This may be of interest to some of you:

http://lup.sagepub.com/content/21/2/118.full


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