Research article: Self-Organized Criticality Theory of Autoimmunity - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 50 Old 07-26-2012, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Self-Organized Criticality Theory of Autoimmunity by Ken Tsumiyama, Yumi Miyazaki, Shunichi Shiozawa

 

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0008382

 

Conclusion:

 

Chronic diseases are an inevitable result of vaccinations!

 

 

 

Quote:
Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune 'system' by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system's self-organized criticality.

 

In the introduction, the authors state:

 

 

 

Quote:

The method we have chosen was to stimulate the system maximally by antigen to the levels far beyond its steady-state just like testing the capability of automobile. In a perfectly reproducible experiments in which the mice not prone to autoimmune diseases were immunized repeatedly with antigen, we have unexpectedly and surprisingly discovered that overstimulation of immune system beyond its self-organized criticality inevitably leads to systemic autoimmunity. 

 

 

Also interesting was the discover that autoimmune diseases are infectious. The injection of damaged CD4+ cells into the autoimmune disease-safe mice transferred damage to them. Are those with autoimmune diseases that donate blood, infecting others? How about breast feeding mothers with autoimmune diseases, could they be passing on the diseases to their babies?

 

 

 


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#2 of 50 Old 07-27-2012, 03:09 AM
 
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Seems like this is on the wrong board (not really for those new to the decision) so I'm flagging it to ask the moderators to move it). 


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#3 of 50 Old 07-27-2012, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Seems like this is on the wrong board (not really for those new to the decision) so I'm flagging it to ask the moderators to move it). 

Huh? I would think this is very important research for someone new to the vaccine decision. They might like to consider that vaccines are a cause of autoimmune disease.

 

Here's a list of autoimmune diseases for their information.


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#4 of 50 Old 07-27-2012, 07:17 AM
 
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Some further articles on the vaccine -autoimmunity connection:

 

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/search/node/vaccines%20autoimmune


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#5 of 50 Old 07-27-2012, 08:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

Huh? I would think this is very important research for someone new to the vaccine decision. They might like to consider that vaccines are a cause of autoimmune disease.

 

Here's a list of autoimmune diseases for their information.

That does seem like a big deal that people might want to know about!

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#6 of 50 Old 07-27-2012, 10:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

Huh? I would think this is very important research for someone new to the vaccine decision. They might like to consider that vaccines are a cause of autoimmune disease.

Here's a list of autoimmune diseases for their information.

Absolutely. My own autoimmune disorders were triggered by vaccines, as was one of my children's. Had I known this was possible, I would have been hesitant to receive vaccines myself, and would have significantly delayed or even refused vaccines for my children.

This is exactly the sort of research that I wish had been available to me when my children were receiving their (truckload of) first-year shots.
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#7 of 50 Old 07-28-2012, 10:38 AM
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#8 of 50 Old 08-07-2012, 05:40 AM
 
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I must be totally confused again about these boards. I thought this was here for the basic research for newbies, and discussion about if vaccines increase autoimmune disorders (given serious studies are published which have data each way) which are likely to turn into unwelcoming debates (to new/infrequent posters) were meant for the main board....? 

 

I'll now give up trying to understand what goes where I think! ;) 


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#9 of 50 Old 08-08-2012, 10:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

I must be totally confused again about these boards. I thought this was here for the basic research for newbies, and discussion about if vaccines increase autoimmune disorders (given serious studies are published which have data each way) which are likely to turn into unwelcoming debates (to new/infrequent posters) were meant for the main board....? 

 

I'll now give up trying to understand what goes where I think! ;) 

Perhaps you missed the point that the study listed in the OP and post #3 are exactly the kind of information that many of us wish we had had access to when WE were newbies.

 

Is there a reason you are trying to get this kind of information moved away from the people who most need to access it?

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#10 of 50 Old 08-09-2012, 10:24 AM
 
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Taximom, your post seems targeted at prosciencemum and not at the topic at hand. The structure and goal of this subforum is still under development, so it's a fair enough question.

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#11 of 50 Old 08-15-2012, 03:25 PM
 
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1, I think the topic is fine here

 

2, I wish I would have had access to all the information now available through books and internet before I got my vaccinations. Luckily, I was able to do research before my kids were born.

 

3, I can only hope for the 'vaccination bubble' to bust soon


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#12 of 50 Old 08-17-2012, 12:25 PM
 
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Any trauma to the body can trigger and autoimmune reaction.  ANY!

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Any trauma to the body can trigger and autoimmune reaction.  ANY!

Sounds interesting. Do you have some more info or links?


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#14 of 50 Old 08-17-2012, 02:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

Any trauma to the body can trigger and autoimmune reaction.  ANY!

Yes, that's true.

 

So it needs to be understood that a vaccination can be an autoimmune-triggering trauma.

 

For those of us who have had our autoimmune reactions clearly triggered by vaccines, this is a no-brainer.  But for those who either have not experienced this, or who have not seen it clearly happen with their own children, it seems to be a difficult concept to grasp.

 

For the parents who report that their normally-developing children suddenly began having terrible intestinal problems shortly after vaccines were given, were later diagnosed with autism, and were, years later, FINALLY diagnosed with celiac disease (an autoimmune disorder), it's fairly clear:  the vaccines triggered the celiac disease.  Previous wheat consumption did not trigger it. If there were no other traumas, and vaccines were proximal to onset of celiac symptoms, yes, that can do it.


Does it mean that vaccines are definitely the cause of all autoimmune disorders?  No. That may or may not be the case.  I think it's likely NOT to be the case, but who knows, they may discover that people who have been vaccinated are far more likely to develop autoimmune disease years later, where the vaccines were clearly not THE trigger, but may have nonetheless played a causal role.  If you have a genetic predisposition to autoimmune issues, and you are injected with aluminum over and over, that's going to up your chances of another trauma triggering an autoimmune disorder, especially if that aluminum is combined with a mercury-preserved flu shot, or the frequent ingestion of mercury-containing tuna or swordfish.

 

It would certainly make us all feel a lot safer if we could truthfully say, "Vaccines are safe!  Vaccines have no role in ANYONE'S autoimmune disorder!  Vaccines are just as effective as the manufacturer wants us to believe!  Vaccine manufacturers NEVER lie about safety/efficacy test results!"

 

But that is obviously not true.  Clinging to that bunch of BS just makes it worse.

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How common:

 

http://womenshealth.gov/publications/our-publications/fact-sheet/autoimmune-diseases.cfm

 

 

 

Quote:

Overall, autoimmune diseases are common, affecting more than 23.5 million Americans. They are a leading cause of death and disability. Yet some autoimmune diseases are rare, while others, such as Hashimoto's disease, affect many people.

 

Quote:

Autoimmune diseases can affect anyone. Yet certain people are at greater risk, including:

  • Women of childbearing age — More women than men have autoimmune diseases, which often start during their childbearing years.
  • People with a family history — Some autoimmune diseases run in families, such as lupus and multiple sclerosis. It is also common for different types of autoimmune diseases to affect different members of a single family. Inheriting certain genes can make it more likely to get an autoimmune disease. But a combination of genes and other factors may trigger the disease to start.
  • People who are around certain things in the environment — Certain events or environmental exposures may cause some autoimmune diseases, or make them worse. Sunlight, chemicals called solvents, and viral and bacterial infections are linked to many autoimmune diseases.
  • People of certain races or ethnic backgrounds — Some autoimmune diseases are more common or more severely affect certain groups of people more than others. For instance, type 1 diabetes is more common in white people. Lupus is most severe for African-American and Hispanic people

 

 

 

Causes:

http://evenbetterhealth.com/autoimmune-disease-causes.php

 

 

Quote:

Family or Personal History of Autoimmune Disease

Many, if not most autoimmune diseases, have a genetic or hereditary basis. This means that if you have a family member with an autoimmune disease, you are at an increased risk of developing an autoimmune condition as well. And it does not have to be the same disease - one relative may have autoimmune thyroid disease, another multiple sclerosis, and another inflammatory bowel disease.

Gender or Hormonal Status

Seventy-five percent of autoimmune diseases occur in women, and most frequently during the childbearing years. Higher estrogen levels seem to stimulate the immune system, which may explain why men are less affected.

Bacterial and Viral Infections and Illnesses

Viruses, bacteria and mycoplasma, a type of small-cell bacteria, are implicated in autoimmune diseases. Often a bout of illness with a virus such as the Epstein- Barr virus triggers the onset of an autoimmune disease.

Toxic Metal Exposure

An estimated twenty-five percent of us have some form of heavy metal poisoning. Studies have shown that exposure to toxic metals such as mercury, cadmium, lead, arsenic, aluminum, nickel and other heavy metals can be linked to the autoimmune process: The heavy metals induce autoantibodies, which then create autoimmune diseases.

Toxic Chemical Exposure

Toxins such as pesticides, solvents, industrial chemicals, even household cleaners and hair dyes are being implicated in autoimmune diseases. These toxins are are everywhere, and they greatly increase the risk of all diseases in general.

Vaccinations/Immunizations

Scientists have found a connection between some autoimmune diseases and vaccinations. In the February 2000 issue of Autoimmunity, ten research articles evaluate the causal link between vaccinations and autoimmune disease. For instance, the controversial anthrax vaccine has been causally linked to the development of autoimmune diseases.

Stress and Trauma

Many people have noticed a direct link between a major stressful life event and the development of an autoimmune disease six to twelve months later. Unmanaged stress is a risk factor for the developemnt of all major diseases, including heart disease and cancer. I myself noticed that I always got much worse symptom-wise during any stressful situations.

Our thoughts and feelings have a direct impact on our immune system. Loneliness is now recognized as the number one predictor of disease due to its immune suppressing action. Laughter and feelings of happiness, on the other hand, increase and enhance the actions of our immune cells.

Smoking

Smoking increases the risk of several autoimmune diseases, primarily because of the chemicals in cigarettes.

Nutritional Deficiencies

Poor diet is an important factor in autoimmunity because poor nutrition compromises the immune system. Processed foods are loaded with chemicals, hormones, steroids, trans-fats and sugars, which promote the creation of free radicals in the body, which in turn damage the cells.

 

 

That's a lot of possibilities for you to be clinging to just one don't you think? 

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#16 of 50 Old 08-17-2012, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

 

Yes, that's true.

 

So it needs to be understood that a vaccination can be an autoimmune-triggering trauma.

 

For those of us who have had our autoimmune reactions clearly triggered by vaccines, this is a no-brainer.  But for those who either have not experienced this, or who have not seen it clearly happen with their own children, it seems to be a difficult concept to grasp.

 

For the parents who report that their normally-developing children suddenly began having terrible intestinal problems shortly after vaccines were given, were later diagnosed with autism, and were, years later, FINALLY diagnosed with celiac disease (an autoimmune disorder), it's fairly clear:  the vaccines triggered the celiac disease.  Previous wheat consumption did not trigger it. If there were no other traumas, and vaccines were proximal to onset of celiac symptoms, yes, that can do it.


Does it mean that vaccines are definitely the cause of all autoimmune disorders?  No. That may or may not be the case.  I think it's likely NOT to be the case, but who knows, they may discover that people who have been vaccinated are far more likely to develop autoimmune disease years later, where the vaccines were clearly not THE trigger, but may have nonetheless played a causal role.  If you have a genetic predisposition to autoimmune issues, and you are injected with aluminum over and over, that's going to up your chances of another trauma triggering an autoimmune disorder, especially if that aluminum is combined with a mercury-preserved flu shot, or the frequent ingestion of mercury-containing tuna or swordfish.

 

It would certainly make us all feel a lot safer if we could truthfully say, "Vaccines are safe!  Vaccines have no role in ANYONE'S autoimmune disorder!  Vaccines are just as effective as the manufacturer wants us to believe!  Vaccine manufacturers NEVER lie about safety/efficacy test results!"

 

But that is obviously not true.  Clinging to that bunch of BS just makes it worse.

This study, in my opinion makes it very clear that vaccines do cause autoimmunity, and even the authors of the study state this quite clearly in their summary, "Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune 'system' by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass the system's self-organize criticality". They used mice that were specifically bred to not have immune deficiencies, which takes out the "genetic predisposition" argument. The purpose of the study was not to prove vaccines safe or not, but to look at autoimmunity. It also appears the authors only injected antigens to obtain an antibody response and no adjuvants or preservatives. The mice's immune systems were able to recover after a total of seven injections, but with the eighth injection the mice's immune systems started to have problems showing signs of early autoimmune problems. The study also seems to put pay the idea of "green" vaccines, because that was what the essentially used in the mice.


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#17 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 06:03 AM
 
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What study are you referring to Mirzam?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imakcerka View Post

What study are you referring to Mirzam?

The one that is the subject of this thread. There is a link in the OP.


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#19 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 07:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

Self-Organized Criticality Theory of Autoimmunity by Ken Tsumiyama, Yumi Miyazaki, Shunichi Shiozawa

 

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0008382

 

Conclusion:

 

Chronic diseases are an inevitable result of vaccinations!

 

 

UH... please reread the entire article.  Of course you can conclude that doubling the antigens will cause a negative reaction. 

 

Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune ‘system’ by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system's self-organized criticality.

 

How does overstimulating anything on purpose prove anything?  I don't disagree that vaccines could trigger an autoimmune response but so can a boob job and stress...

 

 

In the introduction, the authors state:

 

 

 

 

Also interesting was the discover that autoimmune diseases are infectious. The injection of damaged CD4+ cells into the autoimmune disease-safe mice transferred damage to them. Are those with autoimmune diseases that donate blood, infecting others? How about breast feeding mothers with autoimmune diseases, could they be passing on the diseases to their babies?

 

 

 

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#20 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:

How does overstimulating anything on purpose prove anything?  I don't disagree that vaccines could trigger an autoimmune response but so can a boob job and stress...

 

 

 

 

Vaccines over stress the immune system on purpose. It only took eight antigens to put the mice's immune system over the edge, that isn't that much when you consider that children get approximately 125 antigens from birth to 6 years old, and their vaccines include toxic adjuvants, preservatives. I don't know how anyone can deny that is not enough to surpass the system's self-organized criticality

 

No one is denying other things besides vaccines can cause a autoimmune response. How many babies and children are getting boob jobs these days?


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#21 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 08:24 AM
 
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Would you agree that vaccines are not the only possible trigger for eliciting an auto immune response?  I can't imagine that you would deny it.  I'm part of a large community of people who do have auto immune diseases.  There are numerous people in my family as well with auto immune diseases.  Most of them women.  Quite a few people can pinpoint the when they began feeling ill, surgeries elective or needed, accidents, stressful life situations, bacterial infections and vaccines such as the flu shot have triggered their auto immune diseases.  Their sex and family history also play a part.  You'd have to be a fool not to recognize that. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

 

 

 

 

 

Vaccines over stress the immune system on purpose. It only took eight antigens to put the mice's immune system over the edge, that isn't that much when you consider that children get approximately 125 antigens from birth to 6 years old, and their vaccines include toxic adjuvants, preservatives. I don't know how anyone can deny that is not enough to surpass the system's self-organized criticality

 

No one is denying other things besides vaccines can cause a autoimmune response. How many babies and children are getting boob jobs these days?

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#22 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 10:49 AM
 
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Nothing huh?

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#23 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 11:17 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I thought I made my point of view very clear. 


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#24 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 11:37 AM
 
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That you misunderstood the article?  Or that you think vaccines are the only cause of auto immune diseases?  Did I get that part wrong? 

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#25 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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That you misunderstood the article?  Or that you think vaccines are the only cause of auto immune diseases?  Did I get that part wrong? 

 

I think you have misunderstood the peer reviewed research paper, and I never said vaccines were the sole cause of autoimmune diseases. However, in babies and young children, that tend not to get boob jobs, they are likely to be one of the main causes.


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#26 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 12:32 PM
 
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There are lots of triggers for autoimmune responses.

 

I think trying to avoid triggers is reasonable.

 

Some you can't avoid, and some you may not choose to avoid because the payoffs are worth the risk.

 

Vaccines are 100% avoidable.  Some people may live in areas where VPDs are extremely prevalent, and vaccines might be a safer bet than not for those with autoimmune issues (viruses cause autoimmune reactions as well). This does not apply to most on MDC.  

 

Even if you are pro-vax, many pro-vaxxers agree those with certain pre-existing health issues should avoid vaxxing.  You are part of the herd as well, and need to protect yourself.  

 

Imakcerka, the above is not directed at you, but those in research mode and new to thinking about how vaccines work into their lives.


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#27 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 02:02 PM
 
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In a research platform

 

 

 

Quote:

Conclusion:

 

Chronic diseases are an inevitable result of vaccinations!

 

 

 

This is not presenting facts.  This is presenting a belief.  Chronic diseases are not an inevitable result of vaccinations.  The peer review doesn't even say that.  I'm trying to figure out exactly how the OP came to that conclusion. 

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#28 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 03:07 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My interpretation of the conclusion of the study is that chronic diseases are the inevitable result of vaccinations, not just possible or probable, based on these quotes from the authors,

 

 

Quote:
"Repeated immunization with antigen cause systemic autoimmunity in mice otherwise not prone to spontaneous autoimmune diseases"

 

 and 

 

 

 

Quote:
Systemic autoimmunity appears to be the inevitable consequence of over-stimulating the host's immune 'system' by repeated immunization with antigen, to the levels that surpass system's self-organized criticality.

 

The author's found tissue injury like that of lupus erthematosus and other kinds of autoimmune disorders. They found these auto-antibodies: 

  • IgG-rheumatoid factor (RF)
  • IgM-RF
  • Anti-Sm antibody
  • RF reactive against galactose-deficient IgG

 

 

All of these are significant in rheumatoid arthritis which is an autoimmune disorder. Galactose-deficient IgG is a marker used in diagnosing rheumatoid arthritis.

 

 

The authors found the following tissue damage:

 

 

  • Diffuse membranous (wire-loop glomerulonephritis in the kidney,
  • Proliferative glomerulonephritis in the kidney
  • Infiltration of plasma cells around hepatic bile ducts
  • Enlarged lymphoid follicles with marked germinal center in the spleen
  • Occasional lymphocyte infiltration into the salivary glands
  • Lymphoid cell infiltration into the thyroid
  • Perivascular infiltration of neutrophils and macrophages into the skin dermis of the auricle
  • Positive lupus band test

 

 

If you don't agree with my conclusion, that is fine with me, I really don't care.


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#29 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 03:17 PM
 
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You care.

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#30 of 50 Old 08-18-2012, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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No I don't, you can think whatever you like. What is the point of this pissing match?


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