Whooping cough much higher than normal - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 11 Old 07-26-2012, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Just saw on the news that whooping cough is on the rise here in Florida at almost double than this time last year. One infant has passed away from it.

 

I have one partially vaxed child and one completely unvaxed.

 

What are your thoughts, etc for your unvaxed children when something is becoming an "epidemic" in your area?

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#2 of 11 Old 07-26-2012, 08:44 PM
 
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It is not an issue if you learn to recognize the early symptoms, and know how to treat the disease. In the case of pertussis, or whooping cough, the early symptoms are cold symptoms. The natural treatment for pertussis is sodium ascorbate, which is much, much more effective than the conventional medicine treatment. So I would have sodium ascorbate in the house, and give it if my child had cold symptoms. Even if it is just a cold, sodium ascorbate is not harmful, so it doesn't matter. Giving the sodium ascorbate in the early days of pertussis is ideal. But most people don't start to suspect pertussis until the cough gets bad, and lasts for several weeks. At this point, the sodium ascorbate will still be very helpful.

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#3 of 11 Old 07-26-2012, 10:20 PM
 
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We're apparently into our third year of an "epidemic," according to the local media. In 2010, my state had 1452 notifications. Last year, 3989. This year so far, 2326 and we're not into spring here yet (Australia) which is when we see the peak in cases. The notices went up at my daughter's school last spring (November) about confirmed cases and exposure and I fully expect to see cases again this year.

 

With pertussis, I think the key is to treat all cold symptoms (either in siblings or adults) with a hefty dose of suspicion. Vaxed or not, anyone who has "a bit of a cold," or "just a nagging cough," should not come near young infants until they have recovered.

 

We had it in our family two years ago. DH (up-to-date) brought it home. DS (23 months old at the time) came down with it. Everyone recovered without complications, and yes, the SA protocol made a difference in the symptoms and severity of the cough. 


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#4 of 11 Old 07-27-2012, 01:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ma2two View Post

It is not an issue if you learn to recognize the early symptoms, and know how to treat the disease. In the case of pertussis, or whooping cough, the early symptoms are cold symptoms. The natural treatment for pertussis is sodium ascorbate, which is much, much more effective than the conventional medicine treatment. So I would have sodium ascorbate in the house, and give it if my child had cold symptoms. Even if it is just a cold, sodium ascorbate is not harmful, so it doesn't matter. Giving the sodium ascorbate in the early days of pertussis is ideal. But most people don't start to suspect pertussis until the cough gets bad, and lasts for several weeks. At this point, the sodium ascorbate will still be very helpful.

 

I'm a bit skeptical of the sodium ascorbate (aka vitamin C) treatment of pertussis. I googled thinks like "sodium ascorbate pertussiss study" and couldn't find any links to any real science checking this treatment (although lots of "anti-vax" and "natural life" websites suggesting it). So I wondering if there is more to it than that, and what you base the recommendation on? I agree it shouldn't be harmful (in sensible doses), so I suppose it's only a problem if it causes people not to seek other treatment when they become necessary (which I admit to having a hard time believing people would do). But I'm still curious to seek out any kind of scientific rational behind the recommendation. 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#5 of 11 Old 07-27-2012, 02:59 AM
 
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We vax but I don't see the increase of whooping cough as an "epidemic". there's an increase in cases, sure, but total incidences and deaths are still extremely low compared to real epidemics.
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#6 of 11 Old 07-27-2012, 05:57 AM
 
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What marsupial mom said…..

 

I am not opposed to considering vaccine in the face of an epidemic depending on the disease, the vaccine and the person.

 

Pertussis is not dangerous to most people over one, although it can be unpleasant.

 

The pertussis vaccine is hardly the poster child for effectiveness - if it were, we would not have so many cases of it.  Take a look at the CDC for number of cases per year.  Some people think any protection is better than none (and this might be true if vaccines were 100% safe, but they are not)

 

The pertussis vaccine does not protect infants from pertussis - as their first shot is at 2 months, and then 4 months, etc.  After searching the internet high and low, I could not figure out how much immunity was conferred after 1 or 2 shots. Infants - a high risk group, are somewhat unprotected, vaxxed or not.  Personally, in a epidemic I would keep an infant out of high traffic places, and consider getting a booster for myself  (I would check titres first)

 

I think everyone with infants should learn the early signs of pertussis and treatment.  In addition to the SA mentioned above, antibiotics may be helpful (questionable, please research) if given early enough


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#7 of 11 Old 07-27-2012, 08:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
I'm a bit skeptical of the sodium ascorbate (aka vitamin C) treatment of pertussis.
I hope that would not prevent you from trying it with the recommended doses if you or your child got pertussis. It will make a believer out of you.
I agree it shouldn't be harmful (in sensible doses),
In unsensible doses, it causes loose bowel movements. That's when you know it's been too much, and you reduce the dose.
so I suppose it's only a problem if it causes people not to seek other treatment when they become necessary 
Conventional medicine offers no treatment for pertussis. The only purpose of antibiotics is to reduce the transmission to others, not to treat the disease.
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#8 of 11 Old 07-27-2012, 08:50 AM
 
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Hilary Butler: telling it like it is:

 

Whooping Cough: What is it that they don't get about "fail"?

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
[a]s usual, their solution is simply to reinforce vaccinating every man and their dog, cat and chook, and napalm bombing whooping cough communities with Azithrymycin - a potent antibiotic which is NOT needed, and cannot alter the course of the disease.  They SAY it reduces spread.  Really?  If that is the case, then why is whooping cough endemic?  After all, every person the medical system gets their hands on, is prescribed antibiotics and threatened with dire consequences if they don't take it. 

Why do they prescribe them? Because they have NOTHING else to offer. 

Why do they now want to prick everyone from cradle to grave with a pertussis vaccine that is crap?Because they have NOTHING else to offer. 

 


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"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

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#9 of 11 Old 07-27-2012, 09:41 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

 

I'm a bit skeptical of the sodium ascorbate (aka vitamin C) treatment of pertussis. I googled thinks like "sodium ascorbate pertussiss study" and couldn't find any links to any real science checking this treatment (although lots of "anti-vax" and "natural life" websites suggesting it). So I wondering if there is more to it than that, and what you base the recommendation on? I agree it shouldn't be harmful (in sensible doses), so I suppose it's only a problem if it causes people not to seek other treatment when they become necessary (which I admit to having a hard time believing people would do). But I'm still curious to seek out any kind of scientific rational behind the recommendation. 

 

I googled "vitamin c whooping cough" and got links to studies from the 1930s.  Some study showed yes it's promising, some not sure - not sure what the consensus is/was. 

 

For starters:

From BMJ - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC536087/

From Lancet - http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0140673600886997 - can't access this, not sure what it's about ... but lists other related studies

 

It'd be useful to find an overview of these studies.  And more recent studies would be useful too ...


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#10 of 11 Old 07-28-2012, 11:55 PM
 
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Go to www.doctoryourself.com and look on the left hand side. You will find a plethora of info about treating almost anything with vitamins ESP vitamin c. Or google Dr. Klenner Vitamin c. In therapeutic doses he cured 60 out of 60 cases of polio and a host of other presently "uncurable" diseases. His papers have been published. Amazing how the medical community disregards/ignores these studies. The only failure with vitamin c he argues, is not enough of it- it must be in high enough doses. Do back down when you see loose bowels, that's how you'll know. We had my son up to 18,000 mg totalone day before we finally saw improvement in a bad sore throat/cough (spread throughout the day of course). And that's not even near as much as they've given when needed. Remember to not stop abruptly though and slowly adjust the dose down over the days as you see improvement. "Curing that uncurable" by Thomas Levy is an excellent book that will give the studies and dose ages for how to treat. We keep bottles of absorbic acidic in our "medicine cabinet" as our go to antibiotic. Good luck and hope your little one feels better soon! www.doctoryourself.com I think will be a great place for you to start!!
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#11 of 11 Old 07-29-2012, 08:56 PM
 
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I considered it for my toddler and did heaps of research on it.  Two major things jumped out at me.  1.)  80-90% of all people in my state (WA) who have had WC have been fully vaccinated.  So we (and actually the CDC) are now assuming is that the vaccine is not as effective as once thought, or the strain has mutated.  It's a bacteria, and bacteria get resistance and mutate from antibiotics so it makes sense it could due to vaccines.  2.)  It is impossible to get a pertussis vaccine without either diptheria and tetanus mixed in (DTaP or Tdap), and there are lots of other ingredients in there such as aluminum, antibiotic residue, formaldehyde, etc...

 

 

I would not have considered it except that we are about to have a new baby in the house.  I think for adults and healthy children over the age of 1, it might be a terrible experience, but they will come out the other end just fine.  I am planning to take other steps to protect the new baby from pertussis as much as humanly possible.  All adults around the baby for the first 4 months will have Tdap or titer proven immunity to pertussis (I know, I know, Tdap might not be effective anyway but to me it's worth it to have consenting adults get the vax just in case it can help) and we will also be "cocooning" the baby--not bringing her into public (indoor) places for the first 4 months.  After much research we decided to leave our 3.5 year old unvaxxed.  She would have to have 3-4 doses of DTaP in what I feel to be a very short time to get the *poor* immunity the pertussis vax offers, and I didn't want to take that risk for her.  I am not anti-vax at all.  I am just a concerned parent who feels like the possible benefits must outweigh the possible risks to make me feel comfortable with vaccines for children.   My children, not others....

 

If there was such thing as a monovalent "clean" (no Al, etc) vaccine for pertussis only that did not require multiple doses and had a better effectiveness ratio than 56-80% than I believe we would have gotten it for our toddler (due to the infant coming).  But the current choice is less than ideal to me, unfortunately.

 

I have no problem giving antibiotics to stop transmission if anyone in our family does get it.  Both to protect the other family members and the general public.  But yes, it is true that antibiotics will not actually help the individual with pertussis get better quicker.  I am willing to try SA if needed because why not?  The only side effect I have heard of is loose stools.  But I hope we will never need it.  When my DD had come down with a cough during the last year (when pertussis has been declared epidemic in my area) I bring her straight to the pediatrician (through a side door) to be swabbed for pertussis.  I think early ID is key to not spread the bacteria to others.  I always keep her out of public until the results come back (both times negative, it was just some nasty viruses.)


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