Vaccine Myths - Busted - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 11 Old 09-14-2012, 06:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The author of this article, Shawn Seigal, has a very informative radio show every Sunday with great guests. Well worth listening to IMO.

 

The myths he busts are:

 

1. Vaccines are necessary.

 

 

2. Vaccines are a trivial challenge to what children typically encounter and manage every day.

3. The increase in autism rates is not linked to the MMR vaccine.

4. While vaccines are admittedly not 100% safe, serious complications are extremely rare.

5. Vaccines work.

 
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"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

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#2 of 11 Old 09-14-2012, 06:49 AM
 
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Thank you for posting this. I really enjoyed this article! I expecially liked and connected with what he says here:

 

 

Quote:

 Science cannot duplicate the response of the immune system. It doesn’t know how, nor could it ever know how, since the natural immune response is predicated on a myriad of individual biochemical factors, with a subtlety beyond human comprehension, because it is, in a very real sense, part and parcel of that very comprehension, literally on a gut level

 I feel that the medical community knows so very little about the human immune system - and even less about about an infant's immune system in particular.

 

This part also spoke to me:

 

Quote:

 No mother in her right mind, after discovering what a vaccine can do, and knowing that science has absolutely no way of knowing or predicting who will react adversely to a vaccine, nor how adverse that reaction will be, regardless of age or history of reaction or non-reaction, would then vaccinate her child.

 This is why I do not vaccinate.  It is a big fat game of Russian Roullette. I know many moms who vaccinate out of fear and just cross their fingers that their child doesn't have a noticeable reaction (never mind what's going on on a cellular level and the potential for long term damage). This perplexes me - I don't get it.

 

I also liked this about when a medical professional states that there is no proof that vaccines cause a particlar reaction:

 

Quote:
 There is no proof of this, technically and scientifically speaking—that is, it’s impossible to trace injected vaccine ingredients through the countless molecular changes they trigger and the resultant immune responses—nor is there need for proof; we have the pudding.
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If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#3 of 11 Old 09-14-2012, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am glad you appreciated the article. It resonated with me too (that's why I posted it!). The thing that stuck out for me, was this part:

 

 

 

Quote:

Sickness is literally the process of restoration of wellness. Without the ability to get sick, we become hosts to ruminating toxicity and resultant chronic illnesses and autoimmune disorders, the likes of which were never in Mother Nature’s plan: 

 

Shawn gets it. He gets that what we call disease really should be called healing. The rash in measles, the inflammation in the ear infection, the fever, even the pain, is not the disease, they are all signs that the body is in a healing phase. The disease went unnoticed. This is why those that are vaccinated are in a diseased state because their bodies harbor the diseases silently. Eventually the body will attempt to heal, and as the system so compromised the healing never quite happens so we get chronic conditions.

 

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#4 of 11 Old 09-16-2012, 02:51 PM
 
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thanks for posting

 

I was just wondering about this particularly the other day. I was in postnatal excercise class and all the other moms were discussing the second round of vaccines that their babies just had received. There was not one single mom who said that the baby is well. All babies showed various signs of discomfort. All the moms were concerned but will still continue with the vaccines. I do not understand this. How can I do this to some one I love and care for? This fearmongering has gone way over. Oh btw they all go to the same peds office whom I know of scaring you into having vaccines. This is just not right.
 

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#5 of 11 Old 09-17-2012, 05:16 AM
 
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Minerva, please edit your post. Your comments about "mothers in their right mind" and "I feel so sorry for them" violate this portion of the forum guidelines:
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While no one should be labeled as irresponsible or uninformed for deciding to vaccinate, neither should parents here who have chosen to not vaccinate be accused of irresponsibility, not caring for their child, or presenting a threat to others. Please respect each other and refrain from statements that are condescending, hurtful, judgmental, and belittling.

Mi vida loca: full-time WOHM, frugalista, foodie wannabe, 10+ years of TCOYF 

 

R-E-S-P-E-C-T spells BRAND NEW User Agreement!!

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#6 of 11 Old 09-18-2012, 03:39 AM
 
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Both my children have had normal vaccination schedules and are both very healthy. Of course this is an anecdote and not a piece of data, but I just felt I wanted to share it here. 

 

It's very interesting to read your interpretations of how the immune system works and why disease is a good thing. If those are your beliefs then obviously you would not vaccinate. Personally I think preventing my children from being miserable (or potentially having more serious complications of the VPDs) by giving their immune system a helping had to fight these 

diseases is a good thing, and I trust the scientific world to be doing the best they can with these advances in medical science. 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#7 of 11 Old 09-18-2012, 10:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Both my children have had normal vaccination schedules and are both very healthy. Of course this is an anecdote and not a piece of data, but I just felt I wanted to share it here. 

 

It's very interesting to read your interpretations of how the immune system works and why disease is a good thing. If those are your beliefs then obviously you would not vaccinate. Personally I think preventing my children from being miserable (or potentially having more serious complications of the VPDs) by giving their immune system a helping had to fight these 

diseases is a good thing, and I trust the scientific world to be doing the best they can with these advances in medical science. 

 

 Im glad your fully vaccinated children are healthy. HOWEVER there are no long term safety studies done on vaccines and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that they can play a role in autoimmune diseases - many of which may not become apparent for years. In addition I find your choice of words interesting. It is not an "interpretation" of how the immune system works - it is how the cellular and humoral branches of the immune system function. I also think preventing my children form being miserable is a good thing. I do many things every day to ensure their immune systems are in tip top shape.

 

I wish I had the confidence that you have that the "scientific world and medical advances" have my best interests and my health in mind when they develop new products.

 

Take a peek at this great book. It was a fasicnating read:

http://www.amazon.com/What-Medicine-Disappeared-Gerald-Markle/dp/0791473058

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#8 of 11 Old 09-19-2012, 01:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

 

 there are no long term safety studies done on vaccines and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that they can play a role in autoimmune diseases - many of which may not become apparent for years.

 

This one (posted in another thread here) comes pretty close - a review of all safety studies of vaccines: 

 

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=13164

 

The headline conclusions they pick out: 

 

 

 

Quote:
while no vaccine is 100 percent safe, very few adverse events are shown to be caused by vaccines. In addition, the evidence shows that vaccines do not cause several conditions. For example, the MMR vaccine is not associated with autism or childhood diabetes. Also, the DTaP vaccine is not associated with diabetes and the influenza vaccine given as a shot does not exacerbate asthma.

 

 Could you explain why so many people describe the immune system differently to you if your discription is not and "interpretation". I would call mainstream science an interpretation of the data and a description of our current understanding. 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#9 of 11 Old 09-19-2012, 01:48 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

 

Take a peek at this great book. It was a fasicnating read:

http://www.amazon.com/What-Medicine-Disappeared-Gerald-Markle/dp/0791473058

 

That book is expensive and out of stock at Amazon.


And I think we know what happens when there are no modern medicines anyway...

 

For example (from the link I shared above as it happens). 

 

Quote:
"In 1900, for every 1,000 babies born in the United States, 100 would die before their first birthday, often due to infectious diseases."

 

 And before you come back with the usual argument I agree hygiene is part of that, but it is not all of it. Personally I'm incredibly grateful to live now and not have a 1/10 chance of death in childbirth and a life expentency beyond 45. OK that means I'll probably have to benefit from modern medicines to ease conditions related to ageing, but I'm OK with that. 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#10 of 11 Old 09-19-2012, 09:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

 

That book is expensive and out of stock at Amazon.


And I think we know what happens when there are no modern medicines anyway...

 

For example (from the link I shared above as it happens). 

 

 

 And before you come back with the usual argument I agree hygiene is part of that, but it is not all of it. Personally I'm incredibly grateful to live now and not have a 1/10 chance of death in childbirth and a life expentency beyond 45. OK that means I'll probably have to benefit from modern medicines to ease conditions related to ageing, but I'm OK with that. 

 Im not interested in argueing - merely expressing my personal point of view. It does not surprise me we have vastly differeing perspectives on the immune system or what constitutes good health. Most people who are allopathic medical followers differ greatly in their opinions with those who subcribe to a more holistic and alternative view of health and healthcare. Its really no surprise. It's a shame about the book. I got it a few years ago and it really raises some very good questions and issues. It really is far more complex than boiling it down to infectious diseases in 1900. Its not that simple and is like comparing apples to -  well a non fruit. Here is an excellent review of the book:

http://metapsychology.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=book&id=4766

 

 

Quote:
 The traditional medical exam, and many elements of primary care and screening, they maintain, show little evidence of "a demonstrable positive effect on health"  (M&M:41).  Absent the array of surgical procedures currently available, they concede, many ill or injured people would die. Yet perhaps an equal number of individuals would be spared dangerous, often unnecessary and even life-threatening medical interventions which show little evidence of extending life expectancy

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#11 of 11 Old 09-20-2012, 04:38 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

 Im not interested in argueing - merely expressing my personal point of view. It does not surprise me we have vastly differeing perspectives on the immune system or what constitutes good health. Most people who are allopathic medical followers differ greatly in their opinions with those who subcribe to a more holistic and alternative view of health and healthcare. Its really no surprise. It's a shame about the book. I got it a few years ago and it really raises some very good questions and issues. It really is far more complex than boiling it down to infectious diseases in 1900. Its not that simple and is like comparing apples to -  well a non fruit. Here is an excellent review of the book:

http://metapsychology.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=book&id=4766

 

 

 

 I'm guessing one place we'd agree is in the over medicalisation of child birth. :) 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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