Parents who send their children to private school in California more likely to opt out of vaccinations - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 03:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Interesting article about vaccination opt out rates in public verses private schools in California. 

 

http://www.contracostatimes.com/california/ci_21507188/more-private-schools-fall-below-threshold-immunizations

 

 

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Parents who send their children to private schools in California are much more likely to opt out of immunizations than their public school counterparts, an Associated Press analysis has found, and not even the recent re-emergence of whooping cough has halted the downward trajectory of vaccinations among these students.

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#2 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 05:56 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Interesting article about vaccination opt out rates in public verses private schools in California. 

 

http://www.contracostatimes.com/california/ci_21507188/more-private-schools-fall-below-threshold-immunizations

 

 

Quote (from first paragraph):
Parents who send their children to private schools in California are much more likely to opt out of immunizations than their public school counterparts, an Associated Press analysis has found, and not even the recent re-emergence of whooping cough has halted the downward trajectory of vaccinations among these students.

I would hardly call it interesting, it is more like discrimination against these parents.

 

Turning Vaccination Exemptions Into Class Warfare

 

 

 

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It is getting uglier and uglier out there, as angry, frustrated doctors inside and outside of government work overtime to foster fear and hatred of parents making conscious vaccine choices for their children. The latest political dirty trick is to brand parents, who send their children to private schools, as selfish and a threat to their communities because some private schools have higher vaccine exemption rates.

 

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#3 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 06:26 AM
 
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I am not surprised.

 

Studies show non-vaxxers by choice (not undervaxxers by circumstance) tend to be upper middle class and well educated.  I imagine private schools are more likely to be populated by children of wealthy, well educated individuals than public school.  

 

While the article in the Op focused on vaccination rates in individual schools, the general vaccination rate of the public, with regard to children, is stable and high.

 

I am not surprised people don't run out and vaccinate their children, despite the re-emergence of whooping cough.   The choice to non-vax is very complicated and often takes years of research and thought to reach.  It is not an idea that is going to automatically be abandonned by an outbreak of a disease.

 

Moreover, I suspect most non-vaxxers know that the re-emergence of whooping cough has little to do with vax rates (as conceded by the CDC) and everything to do with needing a better/different vaccine.  


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#4 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 07:15 AM
 
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Prosciencemum….I am wondering why you posted the article.  What are your thoughts on it?


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#5 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 08:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I posted it because we had discussed on here before the demographics of non-vaxxers in California (I think related to the new laws being passed there requiring a discussion with a medical professional to get a personal belief exemption). This was a point of data in that discussion that indeed most non-vaxxers are quite well off in CA. 


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#6 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 08:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

I posted it because we had discussed on here before the demographics of non-vaxxers in California (I think related to the new laws being passed there requiring a discussion with a medical professional to get a personal belief exemption). This was a point of data in that discussion that indeed most non-vaxxers are quite well off in CA. 

Ok…but why do you care if non-vaxxers in California are usually well-off?

 

Well off, not well off….we all get to decide whether and how we should vaccinate our own children.  


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#7 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I also posted it because it's about vaccination beliefs and this is a board to discuss those things.... right? 


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#8 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I personally care a lot to understand who (and why) people choose not to vaccinate their children in the face of massive amounts of scientific evidence which suggests it's a good thing to do.


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#9 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 08:48 AM
 
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I also posted it because it's about vaccination beliefs and this is a board to discuss those things.... right? 

I am not sure what point you are getting at.

 

You can post it here, no issues with that.  I just don't understand what your intent is in bringing up a fact without asking a question for discussion. 

 

Yes, some non-vaxxers are wealthy - perhaps more so than the general public…and?


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#10 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 09:11 AM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

I personally care a lot to understand who (and why) people choose not to vaccinate their children in the face of massive amounts of scientific evidence which suggests it's a good thing to do.

That is a statement of your belief, it is not a statement of fact or just because Dr Offit says so. There is, in fact, more evidence to suggest vaccines do more harm than good.  

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#11 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 10:20 AM
 
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I personally care a lot to understand who (and why) people choose not to vaccinate their children in the face of massive amounts of scientific evidence which suggests it's a good thing to do.

 biglaugh.gifThis made me laugh. Your right about there being massive amounts - of propaganda and crap research that is biased and flawed.

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#12 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 11:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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 There is, in fact, more evidence to suggest vaccines do more harm than good.  

 

I disagree with that assessment of the scientific evidence around vaccination. I do not agree there are no risks, but on balance I believe most people should interpret the evidence as being in favour of vaccinating. 


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#13 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 12:07 PM
 
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 There is, in fact, more evidence to suggest vaccines do more harm than good.  

 

I disagree with that assessment of the scientific evidence around vaccination. I do not agree there are no risks, but on balance I believe most people should interpret the evidence as being in favour of vaccinating. 

Thank you again for your opinion. Frankly, I don't need to be told how and what to think.


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#14 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 12:35 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

That is a statement of your belief, it is not a statement of fact or just because Dr Offit says so. There is, in fact, more evidence to suggest vaccines do more harm than good.  

 

 

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Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

 biglaugh.gifThis made me laugh. Your right about there being massive amounts - of propaganda and crap research that is biased and flawed.

 

 


Yes and yes.


 
 
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#15 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 07:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

I personally care a lot to understand who (and why) people choose not to vaccinate their children in the face of massive amounts of scientific evidence which suggests it's a good thing to do.

 

Perhaps the "massive amounts of scientific evidence..." are not as solid or reliable as one might hope.

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#16 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 07:41 PM
 
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I personally care a lot to understand who (and why) people choose not to vaccinate their children in the face of massive amounts of scientific evidence which suggests it's a good thing to do.

 

Do you really try to understand it, or do you try to judge it?  Because the second half of your comment is awfully judgmental.

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#17 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 07:53 PM
 
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I disagree with that assessment of the scientific evidence around vaccination. I do not agree there are no risks, but on balance I believe most people should interpret the evidence as being in favour of vaccinating. 

 

And yet, many experts and parents do not see it that way.  Irritating, isn't it?  When you can't quite put your finger on why something is the way it is?  Because you know it isn't that ALL these people are idiots.  Some of them, sure.  Most of them...possibly.  But in all likelihood, this growing body of people are seeing things that you somehow missed and interpreting things based on a whole new set of ideas.

 

Look at the pertussis case.  Pro-vaccine advocates have been bitching for years that the dirty irresponsible non-vaccinators are spreading the disease around.  Now we all know that isn't the case. Which other vaccine might we discover doesn't work the way we've always assumed it does?  What other new facts will come in to play?  Will some vaccines be recalled after they are deemed useless, or perhaps even *gasp* unsafe?  

 

Of course, a more realistic scenario will be that less effective vaccines (which consequently become more dangerous due to an altered risk-benefit ratio) will be quietly withdrawn as newer vaccines step up.  The new vaccines will be used, experimentally as always, for several years until the problems that they will inevitably demonstrate become obvious and the cycle of withdraw-replace continues.  Each new vaccine will be promoted as safe and effective despite lacking safety data on individual ingredients, long term effects and combination risks.  The newer vaccines will enjoy the undeserved "tried and true" safety and efficacy claims that were previously awarded to all the other withdrawn vaccines.  After all - there are "massive amounts" of scientific data supporting vaccine use - right?

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#18 of 21 Old 09-18-2012, 07:59 PM
 
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Will some vaccines be recalled after they are deemed useless, or perhaps even *gasp* unsafe?  

 

 

Vaccines are never recalled unless there is another similar vaccine deemed "safer" available.  Regardless of how unsafe a vaccine is, as long as people are using it and deem it safer than getting the VPD it is supposed to treat, it will remain in use.

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#19 of 21 Old 09-19-2012, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I find it interesting that I'm the one being accused of being judgemental in this thread. 

 

Discussions like this definitely do make me wonder and consider vaccine safety much more than I might have. Guess what - I have researched it and I'm still convinced it's the best choice. Do none of you who seem to dislike my personal choice so much ever wonder if the huge amounts of people who do trust the science and do get the vaccinations might be right? Ever wonder if the risks just might be being overplayed.... 

 

Vaccines have been recalled in the past when they have been found to be unsafe (I forget the details, but there was one batch made in the early days of commercial vaccines with an improperly attenuated virus which made an unacceptable number of children sick). 


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#20 of 21 Old 09-19-2012, 05:43 AM
 
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I find it interesting that I'm the one being accused of being judgemental in this thread. 

 

The line in questions has been quoted plenty of times - perhaps you need to ask yourself why? My own interpretation of it was "I don't understand why a group of seemingly well educated people can make such stupid decisions."  That is what it came across as, and it is clearly judgemental.

 

Discussions like this definitely do make me wonder and consider vaccine safety much more than I might have. Guess what - I have researched it and I'm still convinced it's the best choice. Do none of you who seem to dislike my personal choice so much ever wonder if the huge amounts of people who do trust the science and do get the vaccinations might be right? Ever wonder if the risks just might be being overplayed.... 

 

I continually look at research, and am continually re-assured that on the whole I made the right decision. 

 

 

 

 


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#21 of 21 Old 09-19-2012, 05:44 AM
 
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And yet, many experts and parents do not see it that way.  Irritating, isn't it?  When you can't quite put your finger on why something is the way it is?  Because you know it isn't that ALL these people are idiots.  Some of them, sure.  Most of them...possibly.  But in all likelihood, this growing body of people are seeing things that you somehow missed and interpreting things based on a whole new set of ideas.

 

 

yeahthat.gif


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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