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#31 of 52 Old 10-17-2012, 01:39 PM
 
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Shingles is the watered down version which you can get if you've already had it.

 

I've had shingles multiple times (after naturally acquiring chicken pox as a young child).  Sorry, but it is not easily dismissed as a "watered down version" of chicken pox.  It is excruciatingly painful and causes life-long nerve damage for many who experience it.

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#32 of 52 Old 10-17-2012, 01:46 PM
 
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I've had shingles multiple times (after naturally acquiring chicken pox as a young child).  Sorry, but it is not easily dismissed as a "watered down version" of chicken pox.  It is excruciatingly painful and causes life-long nerve damage for many who experience it.

 

This.

 

Shingles is usually more severe than childhood chicken pox.

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#33 of 52 Old 10-17-2012, 01:56 PM
 
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Hi everyone,

 

 Shingles is the watered down version which you can get if you've already had it. I think there can be complications with any illness. It's a bit like reading all the possible side effects on the medication leaflet. It sounds awful written down but is rarely that bad. If I'm honest, the scare mongering on the U.S websites just looks shocking to my eyes and I can't help thinking it's led by vaccine companies. 

I'm right with you about vaccine companies leading scare mongering.


BUT.

 

Shingles is every bit as bad as they say it is.

 

Most adults avoid a reactivation of the chicken pox virus (as shingles) by being exposed periodically to children with chicken pox, which "reminds" the adult immune system that it needs to continue to produce antibodies to the virus to keep it dormant.

 

However, with the addition of the (unnecessary) chicken pox vaccine to the pediatric schedule, cases of shingles amongst adults (AND children, for some unknown reason) are skyrocketing.

 

Hence the rush to market the shingles vaccine.  It's quite a $$ bonanza for the vaccine manufacturers.  And they don't even have to lie; shingles IS a terribly serious and painful disease.

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#34 of 52 Old 10-17-2012, 07:33 PM
 
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I'm right with you about vaccine companies leading scare mongering.


BUT.

 

Shingles is every bit as bad as they say it is.

 

Most adults avoid a reactivation of the chicken pox virus (as shingles) by being exposed periodically to children with chicken pox, which "reminds" the adult immune system that it needs to continue to produce antibodies to the virus to keep it dormant.

 

However, with the addition of the (unnecessary) chicken pox vaccine to the pediatric schedule, cases of shingles amongst adults (AND children, for some unknown reason) are skyrocketing.

 

Hence the rush to market the shingles vaccine.  It's quite a $$ bonanza for the vaccine manufacturers.  And they don't even have to lie; shingles IS a terribly serious and painful disease.

 

Such a disgusting business, isn't it?


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#35 of 52 Old 11-04-2012, 04:19 PM
 
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 here's a couple articles with opinions about it...these are in no way tied to any kind of study done or anything, it's just an article.  

 

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local/chickenpox-immunization-could-lead-increase-shingl/nSwWf/

 

http://therefusers.com/refusers-newsroom/chickenpox-immunization-could-lead-to-increases-in-shingles-cases-ktvu-san-francisco/

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#36 of 52 Old 11-06-2012, 12:34 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

 

This.

 

Shingles is usually more severe than childhood chicken pox.

 

Agree too. Two of my SILs have had shingles in their 40s. One suffered terribly. She was on prescription pain meds and off work for ages. She showed me the blisters on her back, but it was the pain that was the worst she said.

 

It frustrates me that there is so little wild CP circulating these days and those of us in our 30s and 40s are coming down with cases of shingles. Even if we were so inclined, the shingles vax is only for adults 50 years and over. So, there's a group of us who have no recourse and are at the mercy of how things turned out from this grand CP vaccine experiment.


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#37 of 52 Old 11-06-2012, 05:45 AM
 
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Fortunately, the uptick in shingles cases is temporary.  As the children who are vaccinated for chicken pox now age they won't be susceptible to shingles, or at least not shingles as we know it now.  Small comfort to those currently suffering, though!

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#38 of 52 Old 11-06-2012, 05:55 AM
 
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Rrrrrachel, that's just a guess.  It might be the most likely outcome, but it's still just a guess.
 

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#39 of 52 Old 11-06-2012, 06:03 AM
 
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Fortunately, the uptick in shingles cases is temporary.  As the children who are vaccinated for chicken pox now age they won't be susceptible to shingles, or at least not shingles as we know it now.  Small comfort to those currently suffering, though!

 

other than agreeing with rachelsmama that it is a guess…..

 

It is a really long temporary period.  My 16 and 13 year olds had CP ( this was before anyone around here even got the CP vaccine -so no one can argue this is a choice we made).  They will be at increased risk of shingles due to less immune-boosting wild cases of it for the rest of their lives.  We are talking 60-70 years.  

 

I think 60-70 years of an increase in shingles due to a decrease in the CP rate (shingles is much more dangerous than CP) is an inappropriate choice from a public health POV.

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#40 of 52 Old 11-06-2012, 06:41 AM
 
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Rrrrrachel, that's just a guess.  It might be the most likely outcome, but it's still just a guess.
 

 

It's really not, it's science.  An attenuated virus that reactivates is not going to be the same as a full strength wild virus that reactivates.  

 

I guess you can call it guessing if you want, but that's kind of like saying the statement that when you add vinegar to baking soda it will fizz is just guessing.

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#41 of 52 Old 11-06-2012, 06:42 AM
 
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other than agreeing with rachelsmama that it is a guess…..

 

It is a really long temporary period.  My 16 and 13 year olds had CP (an this was before anyone around here even got the CP vaccine -so no one can argue this is a choice we made).  They will be at increased risk of shingles due to less immune-boosting wild cases of it for the rest of their lives.  We are talking 60-70 years.  

 

I think 60-70 years of an increase in shingle due to a decrease in the CP rate (shingles is much more dangerous than CP) is an inappropriate choice from a public health POV.

 

It is a long period, you're right.  I have mixed feelings about that.

 

I'd be interested in some documentation showing shingles is much more dangerous that chicken pox.

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#42 of 52 Old 11-06-2012, 07:04 AM
 
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It's really not, it's science.  An attenuated virus that reactivates is not going to be the same as a full strength wild virus that reactivates.  

 

I guess you can call it guessing if you want, but that's kind of like saying the statement that when you add vinegar to baking soda it will fizz is just guessing.

 

The difference between adding vinegar to baking soda and implementing widespread vaccinations against chickenpox is that there have been eons of observations of what happens when you add vinegar to baking soda, and it's possible to control for most relevant variables, etc.... We are currently in the initial experiment about what happens when you try to vaccinate chickenpox out of existence, and we went into this giant experiment not understanding all the variables, or even fully understanding the ecology of chicken-pox (surprise, you end up with a lot more young people getting shingles).  So, I'll agree that there's a chance that the end result could be the elimination of chickenpox, but it's just a guess, and it's not scientific to overstate the likelyhood of that outcome.

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#43 of 52 Old 11-06-2012, 07:50 AM
 
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We have decades of observations about the impact of vaccination on various illness. You're right we don't know what exactly will happen and there are some unknowns, but it's also not just a guess.
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#44 of 52 Old 11-06-2012, 06:24 PM
 
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It's possible that chicken pox will come back as a slightly different version, either weaker or stronger. It's possible that the children that are now being vaccinated for chicken pox won't have life-long immunity and will get it as adults. However, I haven't heard of anyone getting shingles from the chicken pox vaccine.


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#45 of 52 Old 11-06-2012, 06:34 PM
 
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Everything I've read says we need a few more years of implementation before its completely clear whether you can get shingles from the vaccine, but since the vaccine is an attenuated virus if it does result in shingles it should be a much easier form.
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#46 of 52 Old 11-06-2012, 08:19 PM
 
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other than agreeing with rachelsmama that it is a guess…..

 

It is a really long temporary period.  My 16 and 13 year olds had CP ( this was before anyone around here even got the CP vaccine -so no one can argue this is a choice we made).  They will be at increased risk of shingles due to less immune-boosting wild cases of it for the rest of their lives.  We are talking 60-70 years.  

 

I think 60-70 years of an increase in shingles due to a decrease in the CP rate (shingles is much more dangerous than CP) is an inappropriate choice from a public health POV.

 

But it won't be 60-70 years of an increase in shingles. You've done the math wrong. Let's assume for our calculations that the theory we're throwing around is true, and people who've had chicken pox are now at an increased risk of shingles, but people who've had the vaccine won't be.

 

That means everyone, say, 15 or older is at an increased risk, which will make the shingles rate go up for awhile. But it won't go up for 60 years straight, because every year, people in the "chicken pox" group are dying, and people in the "vaccinated" group are being born. That means, say, 20 or 30 years from now, the numbers will begin to go down again as fewer and fewer people who've had chicken pox exist. Unfortunately for your kids, and me, we're all too late and we might be at increased risk for shingles, which does suck a bit. But we do things to make conditions better for future generations, and we won't have to wait nearly as long as 60 years before the numbers begin to turn around.

 

Also, it is possible that those of us who have had chicken pox will be able to prevent shingles by re-exposing ourselves to the virus by getting booster shots, making this whole problem moot.

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#47 of 52 Old 11-07-2012, 05:31 AM
 
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My kids are looking at 60-70 years of increased shingles risk.  

 

Yes, shingles will start to die down before that as people die off - but honestly, that is not much comfort to me as a parent.

 

We do not know if shingles will die down - shingles can come about after CP vaccination, although it is said to be rare (whatever that means, numbers please, CDC!)     http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/vis/downloads/vis-shingles.pdf

 

Oh, and the problem is not moot (re: booster shots).  Vaccines carry a small but real risk of an adverse side effect, where-as exposing yourself to the wild virus after you have had CP does not.  Boosters do not always take, either.  

 

I am not ticked off with individual parents for vaxxing against CP - I believe in parents getting to decide what is best for their families with regards to vaccines…period.

 

I am ticked off with public health officials for jumping on the CP vaccine bandwagon.  I do not believe it is of the most benefit, health-wise, to society.  I think they put their love affair with vaccines before cautiousness and due process.  

 

Here is a list of complications from shingles:

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Shingles/Pages/Complications.aspx

 

The shingles vaccine is only about 50% effective in reducing occurence (CDC)

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#48 of 52 Old 11-07-2012, 07:08 AM
 
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Your kids are only looking at that increased risk if they actually get chicken pox.
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#49 of 52 Old 11-07-2012, 07:24 AM
 
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My two oldest have had chicken pox.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#50 of 52 Old 03-25-2013, 09:47 AM
 
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I have just read through this thread. And appreciate eveyones input.

 

A friend of ours, early 30's, was feeling ill Saturday night as we had another friends birthday party at her place and she went to lay down. I guess she must have started feeling a lot worse as later that night her husband to her to the ER and she was diagnosed with having shingles. I havent spoken to her yet, just word of mouth, but apparently it had something to do with her eyes.

 

ANYWAY I was wondering, I know shingles and CP are different, but if I expose my kids to my friend and they share pops or whatever, and *if* they catch the virus from her, is this the SAME as my kids having caught it from another kid who has CP, or is it different because they are catching it from shingles/ an adult ?

 

Thank you!!
 

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#51 of 52 Old 03-25-2013, 10:18 AM
 
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I have just read through this thread. And appreciate eveyones input.

 

A friend of ours, early 30's, was feeling ill Saturday night as we had another friends birthday party at her place and she went to lay down. I guess she must have started feeling a lot worse as later that night her husband to her to the ER and she was diagnosed with having shingles. I havent spoken to her yet, just word of mouth, but apparently it had something to do with her eyes.

 

ANYWAY I was wondering, I know shingles and CP are different, but if I expose my kids to my friend and they share pops or whatever, and *if* they catch the virus from her, is this the SAME as my kids having caught it from another kid who has CP, or is it different because they are catching it from shingles/ an adult ?

 

Thank you!!
 

i would think since it is the same virus, it just presents differently in children than adults, then sharing pops would produce a case of chicken pox in the child.  

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#52 of 52 Old 03-26-2013, 11:51 AM
 
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Thank

you emmy526, thats what I was thinking too but wanted to see of an one knew more about that.

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