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#1 of 30 Old 10-15-2012, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/10/bmj-case-reports-premature-ovarian-failure-16-year-old-girl-following-human-papillomavirus-vaccinati.html

 

 

Summary

"Premature ovarian failure in a well adolescent is a rare event. Its occurrence raises important questions about causation, which may signal other systemic concerns. This patient presented with amenorrhoea after identifying a change from her regular cycle to irregular and scant periods following vaccinations against human papillomavirus. She declined the oral contraceptives initially prescribed for amenorrhoea. The diagnostic tasks were to determine the reason for her secondary amenorrhoea and then to investigate for possible causes of the premature ovarian failure identified. Although the cause is unknown in 90% of cases, the remaining chief identifiable causes of this condition were excluded. Premature ovarian failure was then notified as a possible adverse event following this vaccination. The young woman was counselled regarding preservation of bone density, reproductive implications and relevant follow-up. This event could hold potential implications for population health and prompts further inquiry."

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#2 of 30 Old 10-15-2012, 08:08 PM
 
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:(  So sad.  And it's so concerning to think of how many girls are having silent, permanent damage.


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#3 of 30 Old 10-15-2012, 11:31 PM
 
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This scares me to death. My older DD, now 16, had the first 2 shots in the series before I got wise and started asking questions. I'm really afraid she may have fertility issues later on as a result. Poor kid has been ravaged by vaccines and subsequent drugs for asthma, etc. it's only in hindsight that I can connect the dots, so there's no proof of causation, but I wish I'd known I could just say no.

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#4 of 30 Old 10-16-2012, 03:30 AM
 
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There's a Cochrane Collaboration Review coming on HPV vaccine efficacy and safety. One to watch for. 

http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD009069/prophylactic-vaccination-against-human-papillomaviruses-to-prevent-cervical-cancer-and-its-precursors

 

This story is very sad indeed for the girl in question, but without an assessment of how frequently this happens there's not reason to expect that a lot of girls will experience this, and no reason for you to be "scared to death" Jennyanydots. The most likely outcome is that your daughter is now protected from cervical cancer, with no serious or lasting side effects from the vaccine. 


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#5 of 30 Old 10-16-2012, 03:35 AM
 
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You can't really say that at this point because her mom doesn't know....YOU don't know either...

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There's a Cochrane Collaboration Review coming on HPV vaccine efficacy and safety. One to watch for. 

http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD009069/prophylactic-vaccination-against-human-papillomaviruses-to-prevent-cervical-cancer-and-its-precursors

 

This story is very sad indeed for the girl in question, but without an assessment of how frequently this happens there's not reason to expect that a lot of girls will experience this, and no reason for you to be "scared to death" Jennyanydots. The most likely outcome is that your daughter is now protected from cervical cancer, with no serious or lasting side effects from the vaccine. 

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#6 of 30 Old 10-16-2012, 09:02 AM
 
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You can't really say that at this point because her mom doesn't know....YOU don't know either...

Sure. That's why I said it was the most likely outcome. :) 


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#7 of 30 Old 10-16-2012, 09:37 AM
 
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Jennyanydots, my heart goes out to you. I can so understand your concern for your DD.

 

I am so grateful my eldest DD (22) refused this vaccine as an 18 year old. She listens to me! 

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#8 of 30 Old 10-16-2012, 09:55 AM
 
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A 16 year old that I know told me about how she found out she had Celiac Disease 2 years ago, after being sick for 2 years.  She started getting sick after the HPV shot but didn't consider it as a possibility.  Of course I don't know if that was the trigger, but a healthy pre-teen with no family history of Celiac or autoimmune disorders suddenly getting sick shortly after this vaccine is a little suspicious to me.

 

And that's the problem.  It's not the immediate reactions that are the only concern.  The point is that we don't know what the long-term effects are and likely never will.  But it's naive to think that if you don't see it, it's not happening.  We know that even formula feeding can have potential lifelong health consequences - why would we think that anything else we put into our children's bodies wouldn't?

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#9 of 30 Old 10-16-2012, 11:32 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

no reason for you to be "scared to death" Jennyanydots. The most likely outcome is that your daughter is now protected from cervical cancer, with no serious or lasting side effects from the vaccine. 

Your use of quotation marks when paraphrasing what i said rather than actually quoting me makes it seem like you're mocking me.
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Jennyanydots, my heart goes out to you. I can so understand your concern for your DD.

I am so grateful my eldest DD (22) refused this vaccine as an 18 year old. She listens to me! 

Lucky you and lucky her! Thanks, Mirzam.

My daughter went through a spell as a toddler where she did not speak at all and regressed markedly after having been advanced socially and verbally, and it was only in hindsight that I discovered this occurred right after a well check including vaccinations. She was never the same kid after that. In addition to severe asthma, she has suffered from attention and behavioral difficulties that have a always set her apart from her peers. i fought her teachers to avoid having her officially tested and labeled with any diagnoses, and (in her case) I still believe that has been the right thing. We've worked together to find ways to make sense of things, and now, in her junior year she is finally doing really well academically with an all AP curriculum.

We lived in TX most of her life, in a conservative area, where our ped looked down on the fact that i BF'd her till 15 months. I was a very young mom, and though I was vax skeptical and did ask questions, I was easily bullied into believing that vax were indeed mandatory.

Not long after her 2nd guardasil shot, DD became sicker and less energetic than ever. Her asthma was the worst it had ever been and, although she didn't have much appetite, she put on a surprising amount of weight. She has since tested positive for gluten and dairy allergies and responded very well to a modified diet. She's very slender again, a healthy weight. And she has cut back dramatically on her asthma meds.

The poor kid has just been through so much in her 16 years, and although I will never be sure, I suspect vaccines have contributed to the health problems she has. I wish I could go back in time and say no to all of them.

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#10 of 30 Old 10-17-2012, 01:33 AM
 
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Your use of quotation marks when paraphrasing what i said rather than actually quoting me makes it seem like you're mocking me.
 

 

I'm sorry it came across that way. I was not intending to mock you. I was trying to be reassuring. It actually makes me angry that people get scared by this stuff, when for the most part there's really no need to be scared. Yes bad side effects can happen, but they do not happen to everyone, or even the majority of people. 


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#11 of 30 Old 10-17-2012, 03:36 AM
 
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I'm sorry it came across that way. I was not intending to mock you. I was trying to be reassuring. It actually makes me angry that people get scared by this stuff, when for the most part there's really no need to be scared. Yes bad side effects can happen, but they do not happen to everyone, or even the majority of people. 

if more people were made more aware of the side effects,  do  you think more people/parents would report them?  This vax is still relatively new,  and info is still coming out on it., including debilitating maladies.   

 

 

 

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As of August 13, 2012, VAERS has received 119 reports of death following HPV vaccination,4 as well as:

  • 894 reports of disability
  • 517 life-threatening adverse events
  • 9,889 emergency room visits
  • 2,781 hospitalizations

And WebMD had the gall to misinform the public by stating that there have been NO serious side effects associated with HPV vaccination! What parent would not consider even the remote potential for permanent disability and/or death worthy of at least a brief mention?

Recent data pulled by VAERS research analyst Janny Stokvis5 also show a dramatic and recent increase in abnormal pap smears, cervical dysplasia, and cervical cancer following HPV vaccination.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/10/16/unproven-hpv-vaccine-safety.aspx#_ednref4

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#12 of 30 Old 10-17-2012, 08:00 AM
 
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I'm sorry it came across that way. I was not intending to mock you. I was trying to be reassuring. It actually makes me angry that people get scared by this stuff, when for the most part there's really no need to be scared. Yes bad side effects can happen, but they do not happen to everyone, or even the majority of people. 

 

It makes you angry that people get scared by potential death or disability?  So you've never watched your baby breathing during sleep because you are worried about SIDS?  That doesn't happen to the majority of people - does it make you angry that parents worry about it?


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#13 of 30 Old 10-17-2012, 12:52 PM
 
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 It actually makes me angry that people get scared by this stuff, when for the most part there's really no need to be scared. Yes bad side effects can happen, but they do not happen to everyone, or even the majority of people. 

People are afraid of what they are afraid of.  Smetimes quoting statistics at them helps - but somtimes not.  Many people are afraid VPD's - and me saying there have only been 60 cases of measles on average in the USA in the past ten years (for example) does little to assauge their worries.

 

I am wonderring if you get equally angry at those who are scared of rare VPD's given that most people will not get the VPD? 

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#14 of 30 Old 10-17-2012, 12:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm sorry it came across that way. I was not intending to mock you. I was trying to be reassuring. It actually makes me angry that people get scared by this stuff, when for the most part there's really no need to be scared. Yes bad side effects can happen, but they do not happen to everyone, or even the majority of people. 

One can say exactly the same thing about Russian Roulette: 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_roulette

 

"Russian roulette is a potentially lethal game of chance in which a player places a single round in a revolver, spins the cylinder, places the muzzle against his or her head, and pulls the trigger. "Russian" refers to the supposed country of origin, and roulette to the element of risk-taking and the spinning of the revolver's cylinder being reminiscent of spinning a roulette wheel. Because only one chamber is loaded, the player has only one in n chance of hitting the loaded chamber, where n is the total number of chambers in the cylinder. (So, for instance, in a revolver that holds six rounds, the chance is one in six; for a revolver that holds five, the chance is one in five.) However, because hitting the loaded chamber will result in death or very serious injury, it is usually played only by people seeking to commit suicide."

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#15 of 30 Old 10-17-2012, 01:26 PM
 
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It's good that things like this are recorded and looked into to see if there is a pattern of it happening that may indicate cause and effect.  However, a single report of something like this does not a relationship make.  Premature ovarian failure is rare, but it does happen, and has been happening for a lot longer than Gardasil has been around.  The cause is unknown in 90% of all cases.  This particular case would be among that 90%.  

 

Also, Vaers is intended to serve as a warning system, sort of to sound an alert to something that could be a problem and should be looked into.  Alone, actually be used to show that an adverse event is actually caused by the vaccine or give you any idea of what the risks are/levels of risk.  Vaers reporting levels can also be influenced by other factors than a rise in side effects, and in this case the biggest influence on the number of Vaers reports is likely bad press.  

 

I would hope that there would be a better means of determining such things soon.  This is an exciting potential of living in the digital age.  My province has moved to centralized medical records attached to provincial health care numbers.  There are all sorts of privacy concerns with that sort of thing of course, but there is also a huge potential to look at relationship between vaccines, medications, health conditions, and adverse health events as never before.  What is currently a huge research project to track down and verify records from multiple sources and check for exclusion factors could soon be as simple as running a few queries on a database.  Automatic functions could compare numbers for seemingly unrelated things and maybe even find possible cause and effect relationships that no one ever would have noticed.  

 

Vaers can not be used in this way though.  It is not comprehensive, and one should not even begin to drawn any conclusions from it.  

 

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People are afraid of what they are afraid of.  Smetimes quoting statistics at them helps - but somtimes not.  Many people are afraid VPD's - and me saying there have only been 60 cases of measles on average in the USA in the past ten years (for example) does little to assauge their worries.

 

I am wonderring if you get equally angry at those who are scared of rare VPD's given that most people will not get the VPD? 

 

So basically, you're telling people not to worry about measle because they are being protected by the vaccines others get.  

 

Well, I guess it works so long as most people don't start thinking that way.  

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#16 of 30 Old 10-17-2012, 06:55 PM
 
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So basically, you're telling people not to worry about measle because they are being protected by the vaccines others get.  

 

Well, I guess it works so long as most people don't start thinking that way.  

If I suggest to people not to worry because a disease is rare, it is usually to reassure them or help them get some context for a decision.  The bolded part is you putting words in my mouth.

 

Personally, I think there is a lot more to worry about when it comes to vaccine reactions.

 

We know the rate of most VPD's (certainly any serious ones) and their rate of complications.

 

We do not know the rate of vaccine reactions, beyond instant allergic reactions.  Vaccine reactions are under-reported, and under-accepted (I.e someone tries to report a vaccine reaction, and a HCP refuses to do anything about it and claims any issue was a "coincidence").  Never mind any long term complications that vaccines might contribute to.

 

Gardasil has had no long term studies done.  

http://www-scf.usc.edu/~uscience/gardasil_vaccine.html

 

 

" Since the vaccine has been available for about 5 years, there have not been published studies reporting long term side effects of Gardasil. In accordance with the FDA's recommendations, Merck is conducting a study of 44,000 subjects to uncover the short- and long-term side effects of the vaccine (U.S. Food and Drug Administration, "FDA Approves Expanded Uses for Gardasil to Include Preventing Certain Vulvar and Vaginal Cancers")."


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This scares me to death. My older DD, now 16, had the first 2 shots in the series before I got wise and started asking questions. I'm really afraid she may have fertility issues later on as a result. Poor kid has been ravaged by vaccines and subsequent drugs for asthma, etc. it's only in hindsight that I can connect the dots, so there's no proof of causation, but I wish I'd known I could just say no.

Be easy on yourself - and what is done is done (platitudes, I know, but hopefully they help)  hug2.gif


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#18 of 30 Old 10-17-2012, 10:55 PM
 
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So basically, you're telling people not to worry about measle because they are being protected by the vaccines others get.  


This statement is representative of something I find particularly offensive. When deciding whether to vax a child, the rational parent weighs the perceived risk vs benefit of the vaccine against the perceived risk vs benefit of remaining unvaxxed. Of course the risk of remaining unvaxxed takes into account realistic current circulation of the disease in question. In the case of some diseases, it may be that the likelihood of contracting that disease is lessened due to vax effectiveness and high vax rate. However, it is a mistake and a gross oversimplification to assume that the deciding parent is sighing with relief over all the 'poor suckers who took a gamble with their kids' health' so he/she doesn't have to. In fact, many of us fear the results of widespread vaccination for the sake of the same public health and well being that pro vaxxers are always accusing non/selective vaxxers of ignoring.

To imply that non vaxing parents are mooching off the sacrifices of others is also offensive because it is the very concept that vaccines require some level of social sacrifice that is at the core of the objection so many parents have to vaccines in the first place. The utilitarian argument that negative outcomes for some are inevitable in order to provide a better outcome for many is simply unacceptable if you consider each individual to be of equal importance.
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#19 of 30 Old 10-17-2012, 10:56 PM
 
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Be easy on yourself - and what is done is done (platitudes, I know, but hopefully they help)  hug2.gif

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#20 of 30 Old 10-18-2012, 08:44 AM
 
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I think several of you misunderstand my statement. To be clear I'm not angry at the people who get scared. I agree people are entitled to be scared of what they're scared of. 

 

I'm angry at people who publish information online and in other places which includes misinformation and distortion of the truth which implies we should be more scared of vaccine side effects and bad reactions than we really need to be. Those are the people I'm angry with. Actually this vaccine is an interesting example, because it seems we are still in the process of determining the rates of these serious side effects, and more study needs to be done. But that doesn't mean we should jump to it meaning they must be dangerous for every person, or even most people. 

 

The NHS website says that 5 million doses of this vaccines have been given (in the UK alone). http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/HPV-vaccination/Pages/Introduction.aspx

If serious side effects happened in any significant fraction of those it'd be obvious. 


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#21 of 30 Old 10-18-2012, 08:13 PM
 
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Gardasil deaths account for over 60% of all vaccine-related death reports, so it doesn't seem unreasonable for parents to be scared for their daughters and refuse this vaccine.

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#22 of 30 Old 10-19-2012, 06:49 PM
 
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Gardasil deaths account for over 60% of all vaccine-related death reports, so it doesn't seem unreasonable for parents to be scared for their daughters and refuse this vaccine.

 

 

Or perhaps all the fear circulating around Gardasil is the reason why there are so  many death reports to vaers.  

 

119 deaths sounds pretty scary until you start looking the reports.  

 

A surprising number of them are really just passing on rumors, and of no value at all.  For example:

 

 

Quote:
Information has been received from a physician who attended a conference that mentioned two patients who were vaccinated with Gardasil. Subsequently the patients died. The cause of death not reported. Attempts are being made to obtain additional identifying information to distinguish the individual patients mentioned in this report. Additional information will be provided if available. Additional information has been requested.
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Initial and follow up information has been received from a physician, who was told by one of his patients, that the mother of a consumer was told by a neurologist that there were 4,400 kids who have died following vaccination with GARDASIL. No product quality complaint was involved. Attempts are being made to verify the existence of patients. Additional information has been requested.

 

 

Quote:
 Information has been received from an office manager and a consumer who reported that she had seen reports of deaths following GARDASIL on television. This is one of two cases from the same source. This is a hearsay report in the absence of an identifiable patient. All telephone attempts to obtain follow up information have been unsuccessful.

 

Quote:
 Information has been received from a consumer via an internet newspaper concerning a patient who on an unspecified date was vaccinated with a dose of GARDASIL. It was reported that a parent can be guilty because if he had known about the side effects, then he might not have allowed the pediatrician to vaccinate the child, which resulted in death (cause of death unspecified). It was unknown if the patient sought medical attention. It was also reported that polysorbato 80 or tween 80 that is a chemical that causes infertility in mice and aluminum which is neurological toxin are in GARDASIL. This is one of several reports from the same source. Additional information is not expected.

 

 

 

Quote:
Information has been received from a Nurse at the physician''s office who heard from another Nurse that a patient came in to the office to receive the third dose of GARDASIL and the friend of the patient told her not to get the third dose because she knew of another girl that received the third dose of GARDASIL and died "within the last month" (cause of death not reported). It was unknown if the patient sought medical attention. Attempts are being made to verify the existence of an identifiable patient. Additional information has been requested.

 

 

Those are just a few.  There are several more "I read an article that said girls died," or "I read on the Internet that a girl died," or "I heard from my dental hygenist that her friend's daughter died after getting her second Gardasil injection," or "I heard on the radio that HPV vaccine killed someone in this country."  

 

Some of them are probably completely unrelated to Gardasil.  Such as:

 

Quote:
 Information has been received from from a physician concerning a 12 year old school going girl of class eight of a village. On 20-JUL-2009, the patient received first dose of GARDASIL in the school. During the process of community mobilization for second dose of GARDASIL, the female health worker was informed that on 06-SEP-2009, the patient accidentally fell in open well (granite quarry filled with water), drowned and expired.

 

A sad, horrible, awful way to die, and my heart breaks for her family.   But I think we're pretty safe in saying that one was absolutely not caused by Gardasil.  

 

Other cases that are not as clearly unrelated but still probably not caused by it

 

- meningococcal disease 115 days after vaccination

- diabetes 50 days after vaccination; patient had history of severe diabetes

- necrotising fasciitis

- influenza

and others 

 

And far, far too many cases of suicide.  While the number of suicides reported shortly after Gardasil could be concerning, suicide is unfortunately the third highest cause of death in the age range the are in with around an average of 4600 a year (88 a week), it would be very surprising if there weren't a lot of suicides shortly after Gardasil just by chance over the years.  

 

There are also, of course, many more serious reports where someone certainly actually did die (as opposed to the "well my friend told me that her friend told her" or "I read it on the Internet" reports), particularly of pulmonary embolism, sudden cardiac arrest, or seizures (both in people with histories of seizure disorder and those without).  But while deaths of these aren't by any means common for teens, they have been happening for a lot longer than Gardasil has been around, and happen to those who don't get it too.  

 

Just knowing that deaths from these things happened soon after (or not so soon after, in some cases) Gardasil is not really useful information.  You need some sort of context to put it in, how often does these things happen after Gardasil compared to in the general population  or the population that doesn't get Gardasil?  That's what safety testing is for. 

 

Noting an increase in reporting or comparing to other vaccines is pretty meaningless too.  Bad press can play a big part in these things.  Someone commits suicide or dies of pulmonary embolism a moth after getting a routine tetanus vaccine or, say, something random like getting their drivers license, and its unlikely that anyone will try and connect the two.  But these things happen after Gardasil when so many people are talking about it and worrying about it and someone starts thinking "well, maybe there is a connection" and bam, it's reported. 

 

Vaers is an detection system meant to alert them to possible problems which need further study to evaluate.  It can't be used as so many are to show causality or the level of risk compared to other vaccines.  It's not a great system IMO, but it's better than nothing, and I really hope soon with health provinces here going to centralized records and Kaiser and such that soon there will be a better system were automatic queries of databases catch and flag adverse events/symptoms/diagnoses that happen more frequently after vaccination (or medication or procedures) than expected.  We don't have this yet though, and Vaers can't be used to try to do the same thing.   

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#23 of 30 Old 10-20-2012, 06:25 AM
 
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…..so it could all be rumour/hype or it could be real.  We do not really know as there are no long term studies.  My children will not be risking it. 

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#24 of 30 Old 10-20-2012, 06:58 AM
 
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…..so it could all be rumour/hype or it could be real.  We do not really know as there are no long term studies.  My children will not be risking it. 

 

Pers, given you think Gardsil is safe, you would be willing to vaccinate your child with this vaccine without long term studies? Are you okay with injecting a vaccine into your your child that the CDC have refused to investigate for the potential risks of injecting engineered L1 HPV DNA in it? As they explained, "Oh we expected it in their there, it is perfectly safe, all Gardasil reactions were a coincidence."

 

Fact: neither the CDC nor the FDA can produce documentary evidence from Merck's licensing application that detailed this expected DNA.

 

Fact: neither the CDC nor the FDA can produce testing results showing the quantity of this expected L1 HPV DNA vaccine dose.

 

Fact: neither the CDC nor the FDA can produce testing results showing that this expected ingredient has been demonstrated to be safe

 

Fact: neither the CDC nor the FDA can explain why they allowed Merck's datasheets to state "no DNA"

 

Fact: neither the CDC nor the FDA can explain why the ingredient list does not state a quantity of this expected DNA, when all other ingredients in the patent are quantified and listed.

 

Like Kathy, my children will not be risking this vaccine either. One has already refused it. #ThankYouVeryMuch

 

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#25 of 30 Old 10-22-2012, 04:18 AM
 
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Mrizam - I don't understand this L1 HPV DNA, and I don't have time today to search down the science about what it is and why it might potentially be dangerous. Could you explain it to me, preferably from a source which isn't funded with a goal of preventing vaccination. :)

 

Slightly OT, but related. Did you know that houshold dust has significant amounts of bacterial DNA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13679817) as well as human DNA from all the dead skin cells in the dust. I wonder how many cells of other people's and animals DNA enter your body every day as you breathe. I wonder how many enter your blood stream every time you cut yourself in the presence of dust. No time to look that up/estimate it, but I bet it's comparable or larger to the amount of DNA there seems to be a lot of concern about in vaccines..... 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#26 of 30 Old 10-22-2012, 03:09 PM
 
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I would think DNA from dust  that is inhaled, and chemically manipulated/washed/sterilized DNA that is injected are two completely different things...

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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Mrizam - I don't understand this L1 HPV DNA, and I don't have time today to search down the science about what it is and why it might potentially be dangerous. Could you explain it to me, preferably from a source which isn't funded with a goal of preventing vaccination. :)

 

Slightly OT, but related. Did you know that houshold dust has significant amounts of bacterial DNA (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13679817) as well as human DNA from all the dead skin cells in the dust. I wonder how many cells of other people's and animals DNA enter your body every day as you breathe. I wonder how many enter your blood stream every time you cut yourself in the presence of dust. No time to look that up/estimate it, but I bet it's comparable or larger to the amount of DNA there seems to be a lot of concern about in vaccines..... 

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#27 of 30 Old 11-01-2012, 01:50 PM
 
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For anyone researching this choice and wanting the skeptical viewpoint of this study they can visit the below link:  

 

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2012/10/30/ovarian-failure-caused-by-gardasil-not-so-fast/

 

 

The summary is that the study posted by the OP provides a weak link, at best between HPV and this occurance of premature ovarian failure.  The premature ovarian failure occured more than 5 months after the HPV vaccine, has been shown to be more common that the authors admit, and is only linked to the vaccine because they can find no other reason for the problem, although this problem is often found without a known reason when it happens. So I'm not very convinced that they've demonstrated any link at all with the HPV. 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#28 of 30 Old 11-02-2012, 12:28 AM
 
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Pek64 - I don't expect to convince you, or others who frequently post links to anti-vaccination websites. I posted it for those who are still researching the vaccine decision and open to all viewpoints.

But it did have explanations (science) explaining why the links in the first post between HPV and premature ovarian failure are not very convincing, so I'm confused that you would say it didn't.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#29 of 30 Old 11-02-2012, 02:26 AM
 
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 I see this is the anti-vaccination method of trying to be convincing. Pro-vaccine sites usually have both insults and data. Personally I'd take just the data too, but I can filter the rest. :) 

 

 Anyway the site I linked does have some insults about some viewpoints about vaccination choices, but it's not directed at anyone here is - we all know that most Mothering Mamas research carefully their vaccine decisions and look at all the information available. 

 

 If you want to avoid this term pek64 mentions skip the first couple of paragraphs and get into the meat of the article. :) I can't post exerpts because of the 100 word limit. :) 



Edited to remove the words in the insult about vaccination choices as requested by the moderators.


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#30 of 30 Old 11-02-2012, 06:35 AM
 
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But it did have explanations (science) explaining why the links in the first post between HPV and premature ovarian failure are not very convincing, so I'm confused that you would say it didn't.

Not really.

 

I think most skeptic articles are snarky and offensive…but some have decent science or links in them.  This one did not.

 

The author basically said that one case of unexplained premature ovarian failure does not a body of evidence against HPV vaccines make.  Sadly (because I am no fan of the HPV vaccine) -I agree with him on this instance.  However, the article is not science - he took a whole lot of text, most of it ranting against non-vaxxers, to say what you and I said in one line.  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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