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Vaccinations > Study: Not Enough Evidence That HPV Vaccine Is Safe and Effective
kathymuggle's Avatar kathymuggle 04:06 PM 11-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

That has very little to do with human papilloma virus, which is transmitted through sexual contact.

Yes and no.

 

Most of us get HPV and in something like 90% of cases (I can get the stat if you like) we fight it off on our own and it never turns into cervical cancer.

 

A weakened immune system (as well as smoking, having lots of children, oral contraceptives ) increase the chances of HPV causing cervical cancer.

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/HPV

 

Building up a child's immune system now will not necessarily mean she makes healthy choices later, but healthy role-modeling does increase the odds.



erigeron 04:07 PM 11-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by pek64 View Post


Are the 4 year olds having sexual contact?
I agree that supporting the immune system, something we have more information about than prior generations, is possibly enough.

Well, about 1 in 4 girls ARE sexually abused. 


chickabiddy's Avatar chickabiddy 04:07 PM 11-16-2012

HPV can be transmitted at birth and through shared objects (rarely).  It is a virus that is spread through contact, which has nothing to do with whole foods or vitamins.  What evidence do you have that supporting the immune system is "possibly enough" to prevent the virus from being spread through contact?


kathymuggle's Avatar kathymuggle 04:09 PM 11-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by erigeron View Post

Well, about 1 in 4 girls ARE sexually abused. 

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pek64's Avatar pek64 04:24 PM 11-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

HPV can be transmitted at birth and through shared objects (rarely).  It is a virus that is spread through contact, which has nothing to do with whole foods or vitamins.  What evidence do you have that supporting the immune system is "possibly enough" to prevent the virus from being spread through contact?

Not being spread, but a strong immune system could be enough for it not to turn into cancer, which is the marketed purpose of the vaccine.
pek64's Avatar pek64 04:26 PM 11-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

That has very little to do with human papilloma virus, which is transmitted through sexual contact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

HPV can be transmitted at birth and through shared objects (rarely).  It is a virus that is spread through contact, which has nothing to do with whole foods or vitamins.  What evidence do you have that supporting the immune system is "possibly enough" to prevent the virus from being spread through contact?

Your quotes seem contradictory.
chickabiddy's Avatar chickabiddy 04:28 PM 11-16-2012

They are not contradictory, although I should have written spread *primarily* through sexual contact.  The virus is spread through contact (usually direct, very rarely indirect) with another person's genital area.  Whole foods and vitamins are irrelevant.
 


pek64's Avatar pek64 04:36 PM 11-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

They are not contradictory, although I should have written spread *primarily* through sexual contact.  The virus is spread through contact (usually direct, very rarely indirect) with another person's genital area.  Whole foods and vitamins are irrelevant.

 

Whole foods and vitamins are relevant from the cancer prevention standpoint. And cancer prevention is the marketed purpose of the vaccine.
Mirzam's Avatar Mirzam 04:42 PM 11-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

They are not contradictory, although I should have written spread *primarily* through sexual contact.  The virus is spread through contact (usually direct, very rarely indirect) with another person's genital area.  Whole foods and vitamins are irrelevant.
 

So the immune system doesn't work with genital contact? A healthy immune system is of no use then as it is not able to deal with this virus? How did we ever survive without the HPV vaccine?


chickabiddy's Avatar chickabiddy 04:44 PM 11-16-2012

Well, while obviously the human race survived, some women did die of cervical cancer.


Mirzam's Avatar Mirzam 04:57 PM 11-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

Well, while obviously the human race survived, some women did die of cervical cancer.

And why did some die of cervical cancer and others not? We know that few lesions lead to to cancer as most resolve on their own. The body and thus the immune sytem is able to deal with the virus quite well. Of course if a body has a compromised immune system, through malnutrition, toxic load, stress, other disease etc, then it might not be robust enough to heal. A body is more likely to be healthy if optimallly nourished, that is feed organic, clean whole foods.


minerva23's Avatar minerva23 05:03 PM 11-16-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

And why did some die of cervical cancer and others not? We know that few lesions lead to to cancer as most resolve on their own. The body and thus the immune sytem is able to deal with the virus quite well. Of course if a body has a compromised immune system, through malnutrition, toxic load, stress, other disease etc, then it might not be robust enough to heal. A body is more likely to be healthy if optimallly nourished, that is feed organic, clean whole foods.

 

I agree. Just saying someone died of cervical cancer is not enough. You need to look at the whole picture/ lifestyle.


chickabiddy's Avatar chickabiddy 06:10 PM 11-16-2012

Two strains of HPV are responsible for 70% of cervical cancers (cite: http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Risk/HPV).  That may also be why many women with HPV do not develop cancer.


prosciencemum's Avatar prosciencemum 12:42 AM 11-17-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

They are not contradictory, although I should have written spread *primarily* through sexual contact.  The virus is spread through contact (usually direct, very rarely indirect) with another person's genital area.  Whole foods and vitamins are irrelevant.

 

Thanks for sticking with this point. Healthy eating and lifestyle is obviously a good thing to do to support the immune system - no-one will deny that. But its nit always going to be enough. Another good thing to do to help fight off infection with some diseases is to get vaccinated (for most people).

Studies do demonstrate the vaccine is effective in reducing the number of girls infected with HPV, so it will save a fraction of them from developing cervical cancer.

And why are we worrying about 4 year olds on this thread. Girls don't get offered this vaccine until they are much older, so for current 4 years olds there's almost 10 more years of safety and efficacy information on HPV before their parents need decide about this vaccine.
ElizHart's Avatar ElizHart 02:44 AM 11-17-2012

Thanks for the interesting discussion on this thread.

 

The co-inventor of the technology enabling the HPV vaccines, Ian Frazer, states:

 

“Through sexual activity, most of us will get infected with the genital papillomaviruses that can cause cancer.  Fortunately, most of us get rid of them between 12 months to five years later without even knowing we’ve had the infection.  Even if the infection persists, only a few individuals accumulate enough genetic mistakes in the virus-infected cell for these to acquire the properties of cancer cells”. (1)

 

So Ian Frazer has acknowledged that the risk of cancer is very low…  I find it astonishing that the HPV vaccine is being pushed upon adolescents around the world.  I wonder how many of these young people and their parents are being properly informed of Ian Frazer’s statement above?

 

For information, here’s a link to a letter I’ve forwarded to Chris Mitchell, Editor-in-Chief of The Australian newspaper, on this topic: “Is universal HPV vaccination necessary?”http://users.on.net/~peter.hart/Is_universal_HPV_vaccination_necessary.pdf

 

Ref. 1: “Catch cancer? No thanks, I’d rather have a shot!” published on the CSIRO and university funded website The Conversation (10 July 2012): https://theconversation.edu.au/catch-cancer-no-thanks-id-rather-have-a-shot-7568


kathymuggle's Avatar kathymuggle 07:29 AM 11-17-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

And why are we worrying about 4 year olds on this thread. Girls don't get offered this vaccine until they are much older, so for current 4 years olds there's almost 10 more years of safety and efficacy information on HPV before their parents need decide about this vaccine.

Parents with younger children are lucky that they will have more time to sort it out before deciding.

 

There, are, however a number of people on this thread who do have teenage girls….myself included.

 

Of course, even when it is not personal, we can still worry about a demographic.  I do worry about baby boys getting a hep b shot at birth, even though I have not had an infant boy in a long time.  I think everyone on this forum cares about the health of children, or they would not be here.  It is one thing we share in common.


Taximom5's Avatar Taximom5 07:33 AM 11-17-2012
Quote: (blue words added are mine, not Mirzam's)
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

And why did some die of cervical cancer and others not? We know that few lesions lead to to cancer as most resolve on their own. The body and thus the immune sytem is able to deal with the virus quite well. Of course if a body has a compromised immune system, through malnutrition, toxic load, stress, other disease etc, then it might not be robust enough to heal. A body is more likely to be healthy if optimallly nourished, that is feed organic, clean whole foods, and a body is more likely to be healthy if it is not injected with ingredients known to cause immune dysfunction.


prosciencemum's Avatar prosciencemum 01:01 PM 11-17-2012
There's no evidence (in the vast majority of people who are have normal immune systems and are not allergic to any if the ingredients) that vaccines do anything to your immune system other than teaching it how to fight off a variety of nasty diseases.
Taximom5's Avatar Taximom5 02:12 PM 11-17-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

There's no evidence (in the vast majority of people who are have normal immune systems and are not allergic to any if the ingredients) that vaccines do anything to your immune system other than teaching it how to fight off a variety of nasty diseases.

Since recent research indicates that aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines cause or trigger autoimmune conditions, and since most people have been injected with aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines, it is likely that a significant percentage of people no longer have normal immune systems--and this is BECAUSE of vaccines.

According to http://www.aarda.org/q_and_a.php, 20% of the population suffers from autoimmune disease. Some estimate that 75% of those are women.

So let's not try to pretend that "the vast majority of people have normal immune systems."

In the meantime, it's very illuminating to see which people defend absolutely every aspect of vaccines, to the point that they will omit much of the truth, and twist the rest. (Hello, Paul Offit! Profit much from vaccines?)
chickabiddy's Avatar chickabiddy 02:20 PM 11-17-2012

Even assuming all that is unquestionably true, which I do not, 80% IS "the vast majority".


Chicharronita's Avatar Chicharronita 08:31 PM 11-17-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by chickabiddy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post

Mainly because I ply her with whole foods and lots of vitamins and make sure she gets proper rest.

That has very little to do with human papilloma virus, which is transmitted through sexual contact.

 

My doctor and I disagree with that.

 

She's had the chickenpox already, and  although uncomfortable nothing unusual or untoward happened (just like when I got it in the 70s). I credit her smooth recovery to rest, diet, and supplements.


kathymuggle's Avatar kathymuggle 09:40 PM 11-17-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post

 

My doctor and I disagree with that.

 

She's had the chickenpox already, and  although uncomfortable nothing unusual or untoward happened (just like when I got it in the 70s). I credit her smooth recovery to rest, diet, and supplements.

 

I think good lifestyle choices stack the deck in your favour health wise - but they are not magic bullets or anything.

 

Crap happens (such as a bad case of a VPD). I think it is more likely to happen if you do not take care of yourself, but sometimes a bad case of xyz can happen to someone who does take care of themselves.  


Turquesa's Avatar Turquesa 09:33 AM 11-18-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizHart View Post

Thanks for the interesting discussion on this thread.

 

The co-inventor of the technology enabling the HPV vaccines, Ian Frazer, states:

 

“Through sexual activity, most of us will get infected with the genital papillomaviruses that can cause cancer.  Fortunately, most of us get rid of them between 12 months to five years later without even knowing we’ve had the infection.  Even if the infection persists, only a few individuals accumulate enough genetic mistakes in the virus-infected cell for these to acquire the properties of cancer cells”. (1)

 

So Ian Frazer has acknowledged that the risk of cancer is very low…  I find it astonishing that the HPV vaccine is being pushed upon adolescents around the world.  I wonder how many of these young people and their parents are being properly informed of Ian Frazer’s statement above?

 

For information, here’s a link to a letter I’ve forwarded to Chris Mitchell, Editor-in-Chief of The Australian newspaper, on this topic: “Is universal HPV vaccination necessary?”http://users.on.net/~peter.hart/Is_universal_HPV_vaccination_necessary.pdf

 

Ref. 1: “Catch cancer? No thanks, I’d rather have a shot!” published on the CSIRO and university funded website The Conversation (10 July 2012): https://theconversation.edu.au/catch-cancer-no-thanks-id-rather-have-a-shot-7568

Thank you!  Splendid letter!  Has it been published?


Taximom5's Avatar Taximom5 09:59 AM 11-18-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElizHart View Post

 

 

For information, here’s a link to a letter I’ve forwarded to Chris Mitchell, Editor-in-Chief of The Australian newspaper, on this topic: “Is universal HPV vaccination necessary?”http://users.on.net/~peter.hart/Is_universal_HPV_vaccination_necessary.pdf

 

Ref. 1: “Catch cancer? No thanks, I’d rather have a shot!” published on the CSIRO and university funded website The Conversation (10 July 2012): https://theconversation.edu.au/catch-cancer-no-thanks-id-rather-have-a-shot-7568

Brilliant letter!

 

May I suggest that you start a new thread "Is Universal HPV Vaccination Necessary," with a copy of the letter in its entirety as the first post?


Chicharronita's Avatar Chicharronita 10:12 AM 11-18-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

Crap happens (such as a bad case of a VPD). I think it is more likely to happen if you do not take care of yourself, but sometimes a bad case of xyz can happen to someone who does take care of themselves.  

 

Oh sure. But I'm not worried about diseases enough to rush out and be fully vaccinated for every little thing. I'll take my chances with good lifestyle choices. So far I've been rewarded!


ElizHart's Avatar ElizHart 05:24 AM 11-19-2012

Hi Turquesa and Taximom5 - thanks for your responses.  As Taximom5 suggested, I've initiated a thread titled "Is universal HPV vaccination necessary?" - although I can't find it now (?!)  Maybe it's being moderated?  (I didn't include the whole letter in the post as I had problems with formatting, but included the link to the letter of course.)

 

Turquesa, the letter hasn't been published, but I'm 'self-publishing' by circulating the letter myself.  I'm interested to look further into how the HPV vaccine was fast-tracked on to the vaccination schedule.


Turquesa's Avatar Turquesa 09:13 AM 11-19-2012
Oh my goodness, ElizHart! I'm in the process of reading about exactly that! Get your hands on the book Vaccine Epidemic, ed. Louise Kuo Habakus and Mary Holland. Chapter 19 gives a thorough and well-cited account of what went into the approval process. It may not answer all of your questions, but it's a good start.
Chicharronita's Avatar Chicharronita 09:19 AM 11-19-2012

I keep meaning to get the book. Last year I went to a talk given by Louise Kuo Habakus and it was very good.


ElizHart's Avatar ElizHart 03:48 AM 11-20-2012

Hi Turquesa - I've read Chapter 19...it's pretty shocking isn't it?  Shocking to discover how power and influence is being abused in our so-called 'liberal democracies'...  When are the people responsible for this exploitation going to be brought to account?  How can this happen when the foxes are in charge of the chicken coop?

 

Also, I tried to post the link to my letter plus comments on the UK's NHS HPV Vaccination webpage.  The NHS ironically describes itself as "NHS choices Your health, your choices".

 

My comments were published on the NHS's HPV Vaccination webpage - minus the link to my letter...  You can see how my comments were edited here: http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/hpv-vaccination/pages/introduction.aspx?WT.mc_id=090805

 

So I was censored.  And this is happening in the UK... It is downright scary.


Taximom5's Avatar Taximom5 05:09 AM 11-20-2012
Maybe they have a policy against links?

Try again, this time with the body of the letter copied and pasted instead of linked. Let's see how they edit that...
Tags: Vaccines , Vaccinations , Hpv
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