Forced Vaccinations: Stepping into Eugenics? - Page 3 - Mothering Forums

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Old 10-26-2012, 09:19 AM
 
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Well, if they were applying eugenics and putting crap in vaccines for this purpose, most of us would not know, and would happily take the vaccines we are convinced are safe and we need.  It is still eugenic - just eugenics by trickery rather than eugencis by force.  The result is still the same.  Indeed trickery and deception is probably a better route for eugenics that force - with force people might rebel, with deception, people actually want your product because they do not know any better.  

 

Food and water supply could be other ways to apply eugenics without physical force. 

 

_________

 

All of the above is hypothetical - I do not think they are using vaccines for eugenics - I am stating the above to say you do not need mandates or force to apply eugenics.

Yay!  Hypothetical!  (And BTW, I lied about leaving, I was just lurking until it came around to this again.)

 

It still is beyond my reckoning what vaccines could possibly (or hypothetically) have to do with eugenics.  If they want to vaccinate *everybody* what eugenic-y thing could hypothetical-"they" have in mind?

 

Hypothetically?


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Old 10-26-2012, 10:08 AM
 
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It still is beyond my reckoning what vaccines could possibly (or hypothetically) have to do with eugenics.  If they want to vaccinate *everybody* what eugenic-y thing could hypothetical-"they" have in mind?

 

Hypothetically?

 In keeping with the hypothetical…..

 

The two I have heard are:

 

1.  There are limited resources on this planet and the rich and powerful want them for themselves and their progeny.

 

2.  We have to rescue them poor Africans from themselves and having so many, many babies!  

 

On a personal note, I can see the second one more than the first.  Rich, largely white countries do have a tendency to decide they know what is best for other less fortunate (gag) people.  

 

There are a number of people who really do believe, often from an environmental standpoint, that we really only should have blank number of children.  If those people also believe that they know better than everyone else and should decide for everyone else how many kids we all should have, I can see things going down a eugenics hole.

 

 In this area I can see parraells to vaccination - there is a lot of "you don't understand science, you should listen to your doctor, we have judged you wrong and are going to deny you services (educational and medical) "going on.  Of course, non-vaxxers judge pro-vaxxers as wrong in many ways, but we have little power to abuse.  

 

On a much milder note, I wonder if such things as genetic testing would be considered eugenics?  I have no issues with a person deciding they want to do genetic testing before procreating to figure out their chances of xyz happenning.  Is that eugenics?  

 

 

In any event, here is a rather inflammatory article on this issue:

http://www.naturalnews.com/029911_vaccines_Bill_Gates.html


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Old 10-26-2012, 10:38 AM
 
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Except if you look at the statistics the rich white people are the ones who ARE vaccinating, and the unvaccinated group is disproportionately poor, minority, and under educated.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:07 AM
 
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 the unvaccinated group is disproportionately poor, minority, and under educated.

More bait?


 
 
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:40 AM
 
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No, not bait, and not meant as a slight against anyone here. Y'all are the exception, not the rule. Far more people to un- or undervaccinated because of issues with access to health care than because of objections to the safety or efficacy of vaccines.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:40 AM
 
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Point being: if it's eugenics on the part of rich white people, they're doing it wrong.
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:48 AM
 
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Old 10-26-2012, 11:53 AM
 
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Did you read the entire conclusion?

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Old 10-26-2012, 12:00 PM
 
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Yes. My original comment was speaking from memory and I should've made a stronger distinction between under and unvaccinated. I think the point about eugenics still stands, though.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:08 PM
 
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Yes. My original comment was speaking from memory and I should've made a stronger distinction between under and unvaccinated. I think the point about eugenics still stands, though.

Yeah. You have a point. Of course the hypothesis of eugenics can fittingly involve some degree of complexity. Also, most "rich" that you speak of do not even begin to fit into the world elitist groups who would run such an outrageous campaign.

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Old 10-26-2012, 12:14 PM
 
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Seeing those statistics does kind I negate any potential hand wringing over the poor single mom who has to work so hard to make rent she couldn't possibly homeschool, though.
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Old 10-26-2012, 12:25 PM
 
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Even if one person feels the need to vax or lose medical care/ will have to forgo public school, it is too much.  

 

It is not the amount of people affected (although g-d knows, that is important, too) it is the erosion of civil liberties and access to service.

 

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Old 10-26-2012, 08:13 PM
 
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nm too personal

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Old 10-26-2012, 09:02 PM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 In keeping with the hypothetical…..

 

In any event, here is a rather inflammatory article on this issue:

http://www.naturalnews.com/029911_vaccines_Bill_Gates.html

OOOOKAAAAAY............ eyesroll.gif

 

Thanks.  That explains a lot.


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Old 10-26-2012, 11:52 PM
 
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Not to stir the pot but no one is forced (using any definition) to live in WV or MS. Different states have different laws that were made by the politicians the people in those states elected. If someone doesn't like the laws they can move to a state where the laws better fit with how they wish to live their life. No, it's not an ideal situation to be in but a single mom working a minimum wage job with no friends, family, or support doesn't really have a reason not to move (besides liking where they already live). Yes, it would be a huge challenge to move with little money and no help but the point is that no one is being forced to live in one of those two states.

 

I do think the fact that exemptions occur should be made known. I've been told by a doctor that if my kids aren't vaccinated they won't be allowed to go to school. When I pointed out the fact that exemptions I can get myself exist in the state we were living in I was told something along the lines of 'well, I guess'. Our kids have had exemptions in several states, with some research it's pretty easy to write a letter that states your beliefs while filling the requirements.

 

Also, I don't think paying taxes entitles anyone to dictate the way schools are run. Bringing up an issue with the school board is great but saying that because someone pays taxes they shouldn't have to follow the rules is not something I agree with. 

 

I think that vaccination is not forced but some states have set things up to be extraordinarily difficult for those who aren't vaccinated. Parents can move or homeschool. Both those options would be awful for many families but the options still exist. in my opinion as long as options exist it's not correct to say that vaccination if forced.

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Old 10-27-2012, 12:36 AM
 
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Not to stir the pot but no one is forced (using any definition) to live in WV or MS. Different states have different laws that were made by the politicians the people in those states elected. If someone doesn't like the laws they can move to a state where the laws better fit with how they wish to live their life. No, it's not an ideal situation to be in but a single mom working a minimum wage job with no friends, family, or support doesn't really have a reason not to move (besides liking where they already live). Yes, it would be a huge challenge to move with little money and no help but the point is that no one is being forced to live in one of those two states.

I do think the fact that exemptions occur should be made known. I've been told by a doctor that if my kids aren't vaccinated they won't be allowed to go to school. When I pointed out the fact that exemptions I can get myself exist in the state we were living in I was told something along the lines of 'well, I guess'. Our kids have had exemptions in several states, with some research it's pretty easy to write a letter that states your beliefs while filling the requirements.

Also, I don't think paying taxes entitles anyone to dictate the way schools are run. Bringing up an issue with the school board is great but saying that because someone pays taxes they shouldn't have to follow the rules is not something I agree with. 

I think that vaccination is not forced but some states have set things up to be extraordinarily difficult for those who aren't vaccinated. Parents can move or homeschool. Both those options would be awful for many families but the options still exist. in my opinion as long as options exist it's not correct to say that vaccination if forced.

Yeah, cause moving's cheap. Especially out of state.

This is more of the same ridiculous bs. If there's any way possible to squeeze through the institutional cracks, we aren't being coerced. Whatever.

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Old 10-27-2012, 03:44 AM
 
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.  

On a much milder note, I wonder if such things as genetic testing would be considered eugenics?  I have no issues with a person deciding they want to do genetic testing before procreating to figure out their chances of xyz happenning.  Is that eugenics?  

This has already been happening for some time.

Many pregnant women elect abortion when they find through prenatal testing that the child they are carrying has chromosomal abnormalities, such as Down Syndrome, or severe birth defects.
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Old 10-27-2012, 12:10 PM
 
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This is more of the same ridiculous bs. If there's any way possible to squeeze through the institutional cracks, we aren't being coerced. Whatever.


Coerced is not the same as forced.


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Old 10-27-2012, 12:19 PM
 
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it
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Not to stir the pot but no one is forced (using any definition) to live in WV or MS. Different states have different laws that were made by the politicians the people in those states elected. If someone doesn't like the laws they can move to a state where the laws better fit with how they wish to live their life. No, it's not an ideal situation to be in but a single mom working a minimum wage job with no friends, family, or support doesn't really have a reason not to move (besides liking where they already live). Yes, it would be a huge challenge to move with little money and no help but the point is that no one is being forced to live in one of those two states.

I do think the fact that exemptions occur should be made known. I've been told by a doctor that if my kids aren't vaccinated they won't be allowed to go to school. When I pointed out the fact that exemptions I can get myself exist in the state we were living in I was told something along the lines of 'well, I guess'. Our kids have had exemptions in several states, with some research it's pretty easy to write a letter that states your beliefs while filling the requirements.

Also, I don't think paying taxes entitles anyone to dictate the way schools are run. Bringing up an issue with the school board is great but saying that because someone pays taxes they shouldn't have to follow the rules is not something I agree with. 

I think that vaccination is not forced but some states have set things up to be extraordinarily difficult for those who aren't vaccinated. Parents can move or homeschool. Both those options would be awful for many families but the options still exist. in my opinion as long as options exist it's not correct to say that vaccination if forced.

What you're describing is authority-endorsed illusion, coercion. The illusion of forced vaccines is upheld and promoted, and in certain states, because of individual situations, vaccines are actually forced (custody battles, truancy laws, etc.)

To say that people are free to move to another State is so Marie Antoinette-esque. It's one-dimensional, out of touch reasoning.

The problem is not that people will not move; the problem is that the laws and application of the laws violate personal freedoms.

Why not allow the States to bring back slavery if the elected officials see fit? After all, if you don't like it, you can just move to another State; problem solved.

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Old 10-27-2012, 12:25 PM
 
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Coerced is not the same as forced.

And yet the effects are so similar, they may as well be.


Forced rape- someone physically holds you down against your will for sex

Coerced sex- someone threatens to separate you from your children unless you submit; terrified, you do.


Explain why the two are so different please, aside from theatrical presentation?

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Old 10-27-2012, 12:56 PM
 
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Never mind, we're not going to agree if you think vaxes are anywhere close to rape.


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Old 10-27-2012, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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vaccines have just as much potential to destroy someone's life as an assault does

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Never mind, we're not going to agree if you think vaxes are anywhere close to rape.

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Old 10-27-2012, 02:09 PM
 
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Never mind, we're not going to agree if you think vaxes are anywhere close to rape.
[/quot

I thought it would be quite obvious that the example was to examine force vs. coercion.

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Old 10-27-2012, 02:12 PM
 
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vaccines have just as much potential to destroy someone's life as rape does

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Never mind, we're not going to agree if you think vaxes are anywhere close to rape.


Wow. Just, wow.
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Old 10-27-2012, 02:53 PM
 
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I thought it would be quite obvious that the example was to examine force vs. coercion.

 

You picked a pretty loaded example and loaded words -- "terrified", etc.  That's not quite the same as not being able to go to the school you want.

 

And it seems that at least one person DOES believe that vaccines are as dangerous as rape.

 

As I wrote, no chance of a civil discussion or even an agree-to-disagree about that one.


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Old 10-27-2012, 02:55 PM
 
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You picked a pretty loaded example and loaded words -- "terrified", etc.  That's not quite the same as not being able to go to the school you want.

 

It is not "school you want" - it is school, period.


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Old 10-27-2012, 03:00 PM
 
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*sigh*. Thats an analogy. Just because a cat meowing is like a dog barking doesn't mean I think cat=dog. When people make analogies, they *never* mean to say that the two different analogous subjects are related to eachother. A has the same relationship with B as C does with D. A and C are in no way related. B and D are in no way related. 

 

I think the rape analogy is legit. (hypothetically, because I've never heard of this happening) someone could be held down and vaccinated without their or their parents consent, and someone could be held down and raped forcibly. Circumstances like custody battles could cause someone to "give in" to the coercion in order to keep custody, and a rapist could say "do as I say or I'll kill your children", causing the victim to give in and submit. And, someone could choose to be vaccinated because they believe in the benefits, and they can choose to have sex with their partner. 

 

actually, come to think of it, the analogy isn't vaccines:rape. Its vaccines:sex. for both topics, it could be 100% voluntary, coerced, or forced. 


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Old 10-27-2012, 03:10 PM
 
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For the sake of discussion - I do not think there is much difference between force and coersion.  The result is the same.  

 

A rape is still a rape (and I am not relating it to vaccines, so please don't go there) whether someone uses force or coersion.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 10-27-2012, 03:13 PM
 
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The issue is not whether vaccines are ever done by force. It's whether they are in general.
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Old 10-27-2012, 03:47 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wow. Just, wow.

    lot's of forced things have life long consequences for some people, whether it's vaccine damage, rape, car accidents, auto immune disease or any other life altering change that was forced upon them against their will.   I for one feel as tho i was assaulted during my childhood due to vaccine damage that left lasting scars to this day.  Did i have a say so in the assault on my body? i certainly did not.  My mother was coerced by the pedi that it was the 'healthy' thing to do in spite of obvious reactions in me and my siblings.  

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