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-   -   Forced Vaccinations: Stepping into Eugenics? (http://www.mothering.com/forum/47-vaccinations/1366396-forced-vaccinations-stepping-into-eugenics.html)

emmy526 10-24-2012 04:22 AM

http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/2012-10-23/forced-vaccinations-stepping-into-eugenics/

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:

Vaccinations are being forced on people. Children are refused entrance to school if they haven’t complied with the government-defined vaccine schedule. Two states, West Virginia and Mississippi, do not accept either religious or philosophical exemptions. State after state is making it harder, often to the point of virtual impossibility, for parents to refuse to have their children vaccinated. More and more, people are being told that they must be vaccinated or lose their jobs. We are seeing more and more cases of parents threatened with loss of their children if they don’t submit them for vaccinating.

There can be no doubt that the trend is to force vaccinations on everyone for any reason. This is being done in the face of official admissions that vaccinations do carry risks, including death and severe debilitation.


kathymuggle 10-24-2012 06:34 AM

lurk.gif


Mosaic 10-24-2012 06:43 AM

There have been several threads recently about vaccination and it's potential relation to eugenics, population control, etc. Since there appears to be interest in this topic, maybe Emma could compile a bunch of these resources into one place like an article. That might be more helpful to folks who are interested in learning more about this issue. smile.gif

Taximom5 10-24-2012 11:56 AM

I think it's fascinating that the loudest defenders of the current vaccination program criticize those who question vaccine safety by claiming that WE are advocating eugenics (because we are supposedly abandoning children who are at increased risk from VPDs), while the truth is, they are the ones abandoning children who are at increased risk for adverse reaction to vaccines.

There are subgroups at risk for VPDs, and subgroups at risk for vaccine reactions.

The subgroups likely overlap, and may even be one and the same subgroup. But even if they are two separate and distinct subgroups, either way, it means that vaccines (as they exist now) are not the answer.

Rrrrrachel 10-24-2012 03:49 PM

There is no forced vaccination in the United States.

emmy526 10-24-2012 03:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

There is no forced vaccination in the United States.

there is for kids in west virginia and mississippi who do not get a medical exemption...they are forced to vaccinate in order to go to public school.  


Rrrrrachel 10-24-2012 03:57 PM

Nope. Sorry. Still not forced vaccination.

emmy526 10-24-2012 03:59 PM

then  please define what forced vaccination means to you. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

Nope. Sorry. Still not forced vaccination.

Rrrrrachel 10-24-2012 04:16 PM

It means you have to vaccinate. You are forced to. You have no choice. Not just you have to vaccinate or can't have your preferred type of schooling.

emmy526 10-24-2012 04:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

It means you have to vaccinate. You are forced to. You have no choice. Not just you have to vaccinate or can't have your preferred type of schooling.

But public education is a basic right in this country.  That does not mean the government has the right to mandate what  must be injected into my child's body, via forced vaccination to enter public school in west virginia or mississippi.  Unless a child has a medical exemption in those states, a parent is forced to vaccinate their child  to ensure a basic right afforded to their child, which is public education.  If my taxes are paying for my child's teacher in a public school, then as a parent, i should have the right to oppose forced vaccinations, whether through religious or philosophical or moral/ethical objection, and my child should still have the right to attend public school.  West virginia and Mississippi do not afford parents those rights.  

 

 

Quote:
"Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit. …" (Article 26)

http://www.hrea.org/index.php?doc_id=402


Rrrrrachel 10-24-2012 04:41 PM

And?

kathymuggle 10-24-2012 07:42 PM

Not all force is physical. There is social force as well  http://sociology.socialsciencedictionary.com/s/SOCIAL_FORCES:

 

 

"The term refers to the fact that society and social organizations exert an influence on individual human behavior"

Rrrrrachel 10-24-2012 07:56 PM

I'm not buying peer pressure as force in this context.

kathymuggle 10-24-2012 08:10 PM

Setting up schools and doctors offices so your child cannot get a free education, or have a doctor, is a bit more than peer pressure.

 

In any event, I think the point is moot -  you could change the word force to "compel" or "with-hold services from" if you like - it does not change some of the points the article makes.


Rrrrrachel 10-24-2012 08:46 PM

The first sentence is "vaccinations are being forced on people." I disagree with that.

emma1325 10-24-2012 11:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

It means you have to vaccinate. You are forced to. You have no choice. Not just you have to vaccinate or can't have your preferred type of schooling.


You really have no idea what you're talking about.

Parents are most certainly being forced to vaccinate in this country...some through the school system (some parents are unable to homeschool), and some through custody battles.

Unless you don't consider "vaccinate or risk losing your child" force.

emma1325 10-24-2012 11:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

The first sentence is "vaccinations are being forced on people." I disagree with that.

They are, and you have to be living under a rock to not know it.

emmy526 10-25-2012 04:41 AM

then write to the author and tell him he made a mistake with the wording of his article.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

The first sentence is "vaccinations are being forced on people." I disagree with that.

Rrrrrachel 10-25-2012 05:36 AM

Or I can just discuss it here, isn't that what is was posted for, discussion?

emmy526 10-25-2012 05:39 AM

discussion is one thing,  mincing words over the title of the article is not discussion.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

Or I can just discuss it here, isn't that what is was posted for, discussion?

Rrrrrachel 10-25-2012 05:47 AM

I thought one of the main points of the article was comparing vaccination to eugenics? Aside from finding tht comparison offensive and disgusting, it sort of hinges on vaccines being forced. No force no eugenics. Whether vaccinations are forced seems pretty central to the point of the article, to me.

kathymuggle 10-25-2012 06:44 AM

Not really.

 

For the sake of argument: 

 

-if you can convince enough people that a product  is good and essential - perhaps through hype, fear and manipulation of statistics, then you can apply eugenics and you did not have to physically "force" a single person.

 

-if you can make life extremely difficult for those who do not vaccinate (you know, being able to send your children to school so you can support your family, or get medical care), then you can compel some people to vaccinate, and thus apply eugenics. 


Marnica 10-25-2012 09:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

It means you have to vaccinate. You are forced to. You have no choice. Not just you have to vaccinate or can't have your preferred type of schooling.

 

Seriously?? So if I live in one of those 2 states, my child does not meet the criteria for a medical exemption and I have a legitimate religious belief that prevents me form vaccinating myself and my children and I cannot afford to homeschool or send my child to private school or move because I simply do not have the resources what choices do I have? 


Rrrrrachel 10-25-2012 09:07 AM

I understand that it's a choice you don't like and is inconvenient in many ways, but it is a choice.

Rrrrrachel 10-25-2012 09:10 AM

It is also worth pointing out that the reason religious exemptions are in jeopardy is because of the huge amount of abuse and fraud surrounding that particular exemption. When people casually mention how easy it is to just lie and get a vaccine exemption or how outraged they are their date wants verification, keep that in mind.

kathymuggle 10-25-2012 09:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

It is also worth pointing out that the reason religious exemptions are in jeopardy is because of the huge amount of abuse and fraud surrounding that particular exemption. When people casually mention how easy it is to just lie and get a vaccine exemption or how outraged they are their date wants verification, keep that in mind.

 

Very untrue.  Religious exemptions are in jeopardy because  powerful pro-vax forces who want everyone who possibly can be vaxxed to be vaxxed.  They decided challenging religious exemptions was the way to do it.  It has nothing to do with fraud or lying.

 

Moreover, there is no way on earth to know if someone is abusing or lying when they claim a religious exemption, the only person who can know is the person making the claim.  


kathymuggle 10-25-2012 09:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I understand that it's a choice you don't like and is inconvenient in many ways, but it is a choice.

Tell that to a single mother in West Virginia who uses the time her kids spend in school to work, thus providing food for her family.  Foods a need, yk, not an inconvenience.  


SweetSilver 10-25-2012 09:42 AM

Definition of eugenics:

 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eugenics

 

The encyclopedia entry uses word like "controlled" and "involuntary".  Does that mean arresting someone?  Does "forcing" always mean "by physical force" like removing children from a home under the watch of the police (in regards to the current topic)?  Arresting parents?  

 

What do people have in mind when they think "eugenics"?  Nazi Germany?  Or are they thinking of the relatively "softer" eugenics practiced in the decades before?

 

 Mincing words is fair, when done respectfully.  

 

(And even if no one can quite pull mandatory vaccinations into the realm of eugenics, doesn't make it all good.)


Rrrrrachel 10-25-2012 10:08 AM

I can actually empathize with being unhappy with current vaccine exemption policies. I think calling it eugenics is completely ott, though.

rush2ady 10-25-2012 11:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I can actually empathize with being unhappy with current vaccine exemption policies. I think calling it eugenics is completely ott, though.


While most people may be oblivious to vaccine side affects, I believe the companies who produce them, as well as our government is well aware of the risks.  Using coercion and scare tactics to induce people to have a risky medical procedure done is unethical.  And they are risky, however small a percentage of risk.

My own sister (I'm convinced but of course can't "prove" it) was vaccine damaged and has spent her 40 years in diapers and under the care of my parents.  I myself reacted to a vaccine, and the clinic who administered the vaccine refused to acknowledge the reaction or report it.  It was very scary and I had to deal with it alone, without medical support.  Since doctors didn't acknowledge it, did that make my and my sister's reaction's any less harmful or damaging?  This is the industry who has the right to give me an exemption or not?  They make money off vaccines and have reputations at stake; they are not unbiased when you request an exemption from them.

Why would it matter about "lying" to get a religious exemption?  It should still be a parents choice.  It should be their decision to make!  Medical procedures should not be coerced.  It should be easy to opt out of them.  And in the case of vaccines, it is not easy.  It is unethical to put pressure on people to get vaccines when there are serious risks involved.

Eugenics?  I don't know, I'm not in the heads of the powers that be that I can say that.  Unethical?  Dangerous?  "One size fits all" medical care? Erosion of our freedom to choose?  definitely.

And when I had that vaccine which I reacted to?  I was told by the program director of my school that I would be thrown out of the program if I didn't vaccinate.  If that's not "force", I don't know what is.  Yes I had a choice.  Be back on the streets, without a job, and be thrown out of school, or continue the schooling which had a promised job upon graduation.



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