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Old 11-26-2012, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The tobacco industry was not subject to the same kind of licensing requirements and oversight the vaccine industry is. It would require a lot of people outside of the immediate industry to conspire, too.
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Old 11-26-2012, 08:53 PM
 
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The tobacco industry was not subject to the same kind of licensing requirements and oversight the vaccine industry is. 

Except the government agencies that oversee the licensing requirements and oversight, etc., are rife with conflict of interest, making that a moot point.

 

It really doesn't take that many people to be in control of the game to make it work the way they want it. Everyone else becomes a pawn, and pawns are easily controlled.


We've already seen this in history.

 

And we don't have to look to far to see it happening again in the here and now. 

 

Look at the recent events in Vancouver (the nurses being forced to get a flu shot, or else wear a mask and distinctive badge,or else lose their job, EVEN THOUGH THE FLU SHOT IS NOT EFFECTIVE.  You've got the lead author of the Cochrane Collaborative review of the flu shot, WRITING TO THE PAPER, from ROME, to complain that his above-mentioned study results were twisted to fit the vaccine sales agenda. Even he makes references to tyrants in history who forced public ridicule on human beings by forcing them to wear distinctive bages or clothing. http://www.vancouversun.com/health/Cochrane+review+vaccine+definitive+health+officer+suggests/7543272/story.html

 

And in Cincinnati:

http://www.wlwt.com/news/local-news/cincinnati/TriHealth-fires-150-employees-for-not-getting-flu-shots/-/13549970/17523386/-/3khe3s/-/index.html#ixzz2DGsXGK2E  TriHealth fires 150 employees for not getting flu shots


 

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Old 11-26-2012, 09:20 PM
 
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Except the government agencies that oversee the licensing requirements and oversight, etc., are rife with conflict of interest, making that a moot point.

 

It really doesn't take that many people to be in control of the game to make it work the way they want it. Everyone else becomes a pawn, and pawns are easily controlled.


We've already seen this in history.

Right!


 
 
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:54 PM
 
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Except the government agencies that oversee the licensing requirements and oversight, etc., are rife with conflict of interest, making that a moot point.

 

It really doesn't take that many people to be in control of the game to make it work the way they want it. Everyone else becomes a pawn, and pawns are easily controlled.


We've already seen this in history.

 

I see that with the food industry. One of the reasons why I don't trust the government to oversee vaccine safety is because of its poor record in handling food safety and allowing food to be adulterated with crud like pesticides, chemicals, artificial flavorings and colors.

 

It just keeps dropping the ball, and promoting things that are questionable (increased grain and vegetable oil consumption and reduced saturated fat and meat-eating) and quiet about other things that they should be against (trans-fats, refined sugar and flour consumption).

 

Did you know that the bad health effects of partially hydrogenated oils has been known about since the late 70s and early 80s? But food manufacturers put a lot of pressure on scientists to withhold this information from the public, and blackballed others like Dr. Mary Enig who was basically a trans-fats whistle blower. 

 

The article "The Oiling of America" spells it all out. You may be interested in the sections from "Shenanigans at the FDA" to "The Food Giants Fight Back."


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Old 11-28-2012, 09:08 PM
 
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Looks like a good read.  The FDA is already populated with Monsanto execs....http://www.naturalnews.com/037678_Michael_Taylor_Monsanto_FDA.html

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Old 12-05-2012, 03:37 PM
 
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Taxi - so I'm curious, do you think GM foods eaten daily or vaccines given a handful of times mostly in childhood are more likely to cause the apparent rise in chronic allergies and other conditions?

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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Old 12-11-2012, 11:50 AM
 
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Taxi - so I'm curious, do you think GM foods eaten daily or vaccines given a handful of times mostly in childhood are more likely to cause the apparent rise in chronic allergies and other conditions?

It doesn't have to be one or the other. Both can be contributing factors. The black and white thinking around here amazes me sometimes. 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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Old 12-11-2012, 11:59 AM
 
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I am not sure if this is in this thread, but….

 

US gov't gave out  5.7 billion dollars to big pharm for vaccine manufacturing in 2011.

 

http://vactruth.com/2012/11/30/2011-billions-vaccine-manufacturers/


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Old 12-11-2012, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Good.  I'm glad the government is helping insure we have a secure supply of vaccines to help prevent shortages.  

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Old 12-11-2012, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
 
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It doesn't have to be one or the other. Both can be contributing factors. The black and white thinking around here amazes me sometimes. 

They can both be more likely?  I think that's mathematically impossible, but what do I know.

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Old 12-11-2012, 12:56 PM
 
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It could be GM foods eaten daily combined with vaccines. Never mind all the environmental toxins kids are exposed to. 


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Old 12-11-2012, 01:30 PM
 
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They can both be more likely?  I think that's mathematically impossible, but what do I know.

 

 

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They can both be more likely?  I think that's mathematically impossible, but what do I know.

not how it reads but anyway...I don't have time to argue semantics with you.


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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Old 12-11-2012, 01:34 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Taxi - so I'm curious, do you think GM foods eaten daily or vaccines given a handful of times mostly in childhood are more likely to cause the apparent rise in chronic allergies and other conditions?

It's not?

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Old 12-11-2012, 01:54 PM
 
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not how it reads but anyway...I don't have time to argue semantics with you.

 

Do you agree with what I said, that it could be a combination of several factors?


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Old 12-12-2012, 11:47 AM
 
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Do you agree with what I said, that it could be a combination of several factors?

yes that's what I said in my initial response to prosciences post


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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Old 12-12-2012, 11:50 AM
 
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I think its stupid to ridicule the manufactures. Of course they are on the hunt for profits, but they only get it if they can prove the value of their product. Vaccination is not a bad think at all, it safes thousands of lives every year! 

All things pharmaceutical can have value and still not be safe. I also don't think anybody is ridiculing the manufacturers (by definition that would be making fun of them). What people have issue with is that the safety testing is done by the same company that stands to make a fortune off their product. A legitimate concern IMO.


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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Old 12-12-2012, 12:36 PM
 
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There math is a little funny there. I'm not sure you can just add all those up, since there are people who fall in more than one category. Interesting how many of those are considered to be caused primarily by weight and diet.

 

Many also become more common after the age of 50 or so, an age which a hundred years ago only about half the population lived to see.  As average life expectancy goes up, so do the diseases of old age.  

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Old 12-12-2012, 12:43 PM
 
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I think its stupid to ridicule the manufactures. Of course they are on the hunt for profits, but they only get it if they can prove the value of their product. Vaccination is not a bad think at all, it safes thousands of lives every year! 


But if people claim to be harmed by the product, the manufacturer is even more obligated to defend their product and tout its effectiveness...because if sued at least they can pretend they didn't know better--they can pretend to have believed their own hype.  It gets complicated when money and liability are involved.

 

Look at the dental industry's persistent use of mercury fillings.  Do they honestly not know mercury is poisonous?  I just can't believe this.  Yet US society still supports mercury use in teeth.  Insurance companies accept it as the standard of care.  For the dental industry to admit mercury is harmful would raise HUGE liability issues for them, going years back!

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Old 12-13-2012, 07:54 AM
 
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Look at the dental industry's persistent use of mercury fillings.  Do they honestly not know mercury is poisonous?  I just can't believe this.  Yet US society still supports mercury use in teeth.  Insurance companies accept it as the standard of care.  For the dental industry to admit mercury is harmful would raise HUGE liability issues for them, going years back!


Along with fluoridated water!


 
 
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Old 12-13-2012, 02:52 PM
 
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Along with fluoridated water!

I'm sorry. I just can't help thinking of Dr Strangelove when you say that. "No fighting in the war room" and all that! Are you being serious or joking? Honest question - I misunderstood a joke on another thread recently.

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Old 12-13-2012, 07:02 PM
 
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There is a growing controversy over the safety/effectiveness of fluoridating water: http://www.fluoridation.webs.com/

 

Some countries have stopped, rejected, or outright banned the practice of fluoridating water: http://www.fluoridation.com/c-country.htm

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Old 12-13-2012, 08:07 PM
 
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I'm sorry. I just can't help thinking of Dr Strangelove when you say that. "No fighting in the war room" and all that! Are you being serious or joking? Honest question - I misunderstood a joke on another thread recently.


I am 100% serious. It is a terrible practice.

I will not argue about this with any of you, period. 


 
 
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Old 12-14-2012, 07:43 AM
 
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For those of you who believe that competing interests in vaccine research and policy-making are not a big deal because "vaccines don't make a lot of money," I'm curious: At what profit margin would you start to consider these competing interests unacceptable?

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Old 12-14-2012, 08:06 AM
 
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Not vaccines, but I found this tidbit while looking for something else:

 

"Aspirin consumption by children with viral illnesses increases the risk of Reye’s syndrome — fatal in one third of all patients — by 4,000%.

When this evidence became known, the aspirin industry geared up a counter-campaign that delayed the introduction of simple warning labels on their products about the risk of Reye’s syndrome by more than five years."

http://theconversation.edu.au/why-do-people-reject-science-heres-why-4050

Of course pharmacy companies bottom line is the bottom line…and of course they will  dismiss worrisome things to maintain that profit.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 12-14-2012, 08:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The issue, for me, is more can they be successful in that effort indefinitely interface of numerous independent studies and governed oversight. All the examples; vioxx, aspirin, opv, etc; show they can't.
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Old 12-18-2012, 08:59 AM
 
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nm


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 12-25-2012, 04:36 AM
 
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Actually, the claims that companies make large amounts of money on immunisation are false.  They simply don't.   The cost of the dosage of the vaccines are too low to make a large profit, and some of the companies want to pull out of it and focus on the high yield medications.

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Old 12-25-2012, 08:26 AM
 
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Actually, the claims that companies make large amounts of money on immunisation are false.  They simply don't.   The cost of the dosage of the vaccines are too low to make a large profit, and some of the companies want to pull out of it and focus on the high yield medications.

 

Wrong.  They might not make a lot of money compared to other pharmaceutical products - but they still make lots and lots of money on vaccines.  The amount they make off of vaccines has been rising, I believe.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 12-25-2012, 12:23 PM
 
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Actually, the claims that companies make large amounts of money on immunisation are false.  They simply don't.   The cost of the dosage of the vaccines are too low to make a large profit, and some of the companies want to pull out of it and focus on the high yield medications.

Which companies want to pull out of vaccine production?

And how much do the doctors get paid for vaccinating? Insurance companies reimburse them for the vaccines, and the administration, true?
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Old 12-25-2012, 12:44 PM
 
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15173477

 

 

Quote:

RESULTS:

Variable costs per shot (excluding vaccine cost) were 8.15 dollars for pediatric practices, 5.79 dollars for family practices, and 5.41 dollars for public health agencies. Total costs per shot, including fixed costs, were 10.67 dollars for pediatric practices and 7.57 dollars for family practices. Average reimbursement for pediatricians and private family practices was 8.27 dollars and 6.68 dollars, respectively. For pediatric practices, average variable costs were barely exceeded by average reimbursement, and reimbursement was 22% less than average total costs.

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