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#91 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 01:37 AM
 
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dont vaccinate!!!!!

 

alternative medicine can cure all disease (herbs, yoga, spiritual, urine therapy, bowen, accapuncture)

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#92 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 05:32 AM
 
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How can "accapuncture" cure diabetes?  Please be specific and include credible published (not self-published) sources.


Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
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#93 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 05:59 AM
 
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Chickabiddy, it's probably just someone trying to bait/derail.


 
 
 "Medical propaganda ops are, in the long run, the most dangerous. They appear to be neutral. They wave no political banners. They claim to be science. For these reasons, they can accomplish the goals of overt fascism without arousing suspicion.” — Jon Rappoport
 
 
 
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#94 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 11:19 AM
 
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Edited because mods are now aware of the issue.

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#95 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 11:32 AM
 
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delete


Carseat-checking (CPST) and WAH mama to a twelve-year-old girl.
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#96 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 11:50 AM
 
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nm

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#97 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 12:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeckyBird View Post

Chickabiddy, it's probably just someone trying to bait/derail.

And successfully done, too, unfortunately.  May I suggest that we get back to the OT, and if anyone suspects any posts of shill-dom or troll-dom, please use the handy little flag button to alert the mods.

 

Back on topic:

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Originally Posted by WildKingdom View Post

nhonestly I find that hard to believe. It's very easy to find online cme that has no competing interests. I have to do 50 hours a year and I've never had trouble.

 

 

Could you post some examples?  I've read from many sources that even cme that sounds like it has no competing interests is almost always funded by an innocent-sounding front group for a pharmaceutical company, which does make sense, as most cme is about new and updated medications and diagnostic practices regarding the prescribing of such medications.

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#98 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 01:09 PM
 
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And successfully done, too, unfortunately.  May I suggest that we get back to the OT, and if anyone suspects any posts of shill-dom or troll-dom, please use the handy little flag button to alert the mods.

 

 

I reread your Op and then decided to look to see what work Zimmermann had been involved in.  He is a bit of a gold mine in terms of studies linking vaccines and autism.  

 

 

I  thought this study looked interesting (abstract only - sorry)

http://jcn.sagepub.com/content/14/6/388.short

 

http://www.medical-hypotheses.com/article/S0306-9877(00)91281-7/abstract

 

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/15287394.2011.573736


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#99 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 02:19 PM
 
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1. This study doesn't mention vaccines?

2. This is te mercury poisoning = autism thin again. He makes some awfully strong statements in the abstract in curious how he backed up.

3. This is showing a correlation between vaccine uptake and autism rates, I guess? There are a lot of reasons those two things could be correlate other than causation.
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#100 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 03:56 PM
 
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1. This study doesn't mention vaccines?
2. This is te mercury poisoning = autism thin again. He makes some awfully strong statements in the abstract in curious how he backed up.
3. This is showing a correlation between vaccine uptake and autism rates, I guess? There are a lot of reasons those two things could be correlate other than causation.

Well, at least we are back on track, lol, and thanks, actually…..

 

Concerning number 1, this is what the abstract says:

 

"The mean number of autoimmune disorders was greater in families with autism; 46% had two or more members with autoimmune disorders. As the number of family members with autoimmune disorders increased from one to three, the risk of autism was greater, with an odds ratio that increased from 1.9 to 5.5, respectively. In mothers and first-degree relatives of autistic children, there were more autoimmune disorders (16% and 21%) as compared to controls (2% and 4%), with odds ratios of 8.8 and 6.0, respectively. The most common autoimmune disorders in both groups were type 1 diabetes, adult rheumatoid arthritis, hypothyroidism, and systemic lupus erythematosus."

 

The implications to me are thus: if you have autoimmune issues in your family, it might make sense to further investigate environmental triggers for autism (ex: anti-depressents in pregnancy).  Some people think vaccines might be a trigger, some don't.  Likewise, vaccines are known to trigger auto-immunity flare-ups in some people, however I know viruses such as the flu can trigger autoimmune issues as well.  It might be a bit of a numbers game:   according to Cochrane, 96% of people do not get the flu (or flu strain that are VAD)  each year.  So, people have a 4% chance of getting the flu (1 year in 25 if all things are equal) but they get a flu shot yearly. However  not all risks are equal.  If , for example, the risk from the flu shot is 1 in 1000 , but the risk from the flu is 1 in 3, it might make sense to get the flu shot even if the flu shot is yearly while your chance of getting the flu are only 4%. I really do not know (and the whole issue is confounded by uncertainty around what is and isn't a vaccine reaction).   I have no idea if childhood vaccines are implicated in auto-immune disorders - there are years between when babies are vaxxed and auto-immune issue typically show up.  We would need a large scale of truly unvaxxed versus fully vaxxed to ascertain that.  In any event, the first link might be most interesting to those with auto-immune issues, and trying to figure out how triggers for both autism and auto-immunity come into play.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#101 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 04:08 PM
 
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This may need a new thread.

Here's a great piece on thimerosal and autism. In particular it has a table comparing symptoms of autism and symptoms of mercury poisoning that I think is really interesting.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/111/3/674.full?ijkey=3e03b77f87b04c5befb9f9d74958cb446e5b6d75&keytype2=tf_ipsecsha

Here is an incredibly well referenced discussion of the various hypotheses on how vaccines cause autism.

http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full#ref-20
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#102 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 04:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

Well, at least we are back on track, lol, and thanks, actually…..

Concerning number 1, this is what the abstract says:

"The mean number of autoimmune disorders was greater in families with autism; 46% had two or more members with autoimmune disorders. As the number of family members with autoimmune disorders increased from one to three, the risk of autism was greater, with an odds ratio that increased from 1.9 to 5.5, respectively. In mothers and first-degree relatives of autistic children, there were more autoimmune disorders (16% and 21%) as compared to controls (2% and 4%), with odds ratios of 8.8 and 6.0, respectively. The most common autoimmune disorders in both groups were type 1 diabetes, adult rheumatoid arthritis, hypothyroidism, and systemic lupus erythematosus."

The implications to me are thus: if you have autoimmune issues in your family, it might make sense to further investigate environmental triggers for autism (ex: anti-depressents in pregnancy).  Some people consider vaccines a trigger, some don't.  Likewise, vaccines are known to trigger auto-immunity flare-ups in some people, however I know viruses such as the flu can trigger autoimmune issues as well.  It might be a bit of a numbers game:   according to Cochrane, 96% of people do not get the flu (or flu strain that are VAD)  each year.  So, people have a 4% chance of getting the flu (1 year in 25 if all things are equal) but if they get a flu shot yearly. However  not all risks are equal.  If , for example, the risk from the flu shot is 1 in 1000 , but the risk from the flu is 1 in 3, it might make sense to get the flu shot even if the flu shot is yearly while your chance of getting the flu are only 4%. I really do not know (and the whole issue is confounded by uncertainty around what is and isn't a vaccine reaction).   I have no idea if childhood vaccines are implicated in auto-immune disorders - there are years between when babies are vaxxed and auto-immune issue typically show up.  We would need a large scale of truly unvaxxed versus fully vaxxed to ascertain that.  In any event, the first link might be most interesting to those with auto-immune issues, and trying to figure out how triggers for both autism and auto-immunity come into play.

Getting an actual virus is a much bigger immune event than getting a vaccine, fwiw.

Tome that abstract is another study in the column showing Autism is largely genetic.
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#103 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 04:09 PM
 
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And successfully done, too, unfortunately.  May I suggest that we get back to the OT, and if anyone suspects any posts of shill-dom or troll-dom, please use the handy little flag button to alert the mods.

 

Back on topic:

Quote:

Originally Posted by WildKingdom View Post

nhonestly I find that hard to believe. It's very easy to find online cme that has no competing interests. I have to do 50 hours a year and I've never had trouble.

 

 

Could you post some examples?  I've read from many sources that even cme that sounds like it has no competing interests is almost always funded by an innocent-sounding front group for a pharmaceutical company, which does make sense, as most cme is about new and updated medications and diagnostic practices regarding the prescribing of such medications.

 

You're misinformed.  First of all, it is not true that most CME is about updated and new meds.  Not even close.

 

There is a ton of CME out there.  Yes, you can get it from going to a steak dinner with a "speaker."  That's just a drug sales pitch poorly disguised as CME.  In general, if you want real CME, you have to pay for it.

 

For example, I'm currently doing the Medical Knowledge Self Assessment Program.  It's a 12 module review program. Each module takes about 20 hours to complete and earns a certain amount of CME.  It's put out by the ACP, and costs $519.00.  I'm getting a lot out of it, because it's a comprehensive internal medicine review, and I need to re-certify my boards this year.

 

There are plenty of other options out there.  Most tertiary care hospitals run multiple programs.  I got a flyer in the mail today run by Harvard (Orthopedics review for primary care doctors).  http://cme.hms.harvard.edu/cmeups/pdf/00332530.pdf  Just one example.  And, if you look at the syllabus, no sessions on medications.

 

Doctors do a lot more than just prescribe meds.  

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#104 of 107 Old 12-10-2012, 04:23 PM
 
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Here's a study that specifically looked at ethyl mercury exposure and found no evidence of mercury poisoning. In fact, children exposed to mercury actually performed better on some tests.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa071434
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#105 of 107 Old 12-11-2012, 11:51 AM
 
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Here's a study that specifically looked at ethyl mercury exposure and found no evidence of mercury poisoning. In fact, children exposed to mercury actually performed better on some tests.

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa071434

 

On some but not all; for instance they found poorer performance on attention and executive functioning (an umbrella term that covers a lot of things like being able to control your behavior appropriately and to think of the future repercussions of your actions).

 

 

 

There's a lot more information in the full abstract. Like:

 

 

Quote:
Among boys, there was a beneficial association between mercury exposure and identification of letters and words on the WJ-III and a detrimental association with behavioral regulation and motor and phonic tics according to the ratings of evaluators. An association with tics was also found in one HMO in the screening analysis of the CDC's Vaccine Safety Datalink4and an analysis of the General Practice Research Database.21 The replication of the findings regarding tics suggests the potential need for further studies. 

 

Bolding mine.


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#106 of 107 Old 12-11-2012, 12:38 PM
 
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yeah, like i said, some.  

 

I'm not actually claiming mercury exposure makes you smarter, it implies in the abstract that the significant differences both ways are so small they probably aren't really that significant.

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#107 of 107 Old 12-11-2012, 12:56 PM
 
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If my kid got tics after being exposed to mercury in vaccines, I would find that pretty significant. 

 

I wonder if further studies were done on this.


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