Evidence of govenrment cover-up re: vaccines and autism - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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Old 12-03-2012, 01:39 PM
 
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Good questions, I'll assume it's so Big Pharma and other agencies can have "Customers for life" as the article says.

 

I find this very disturbing:

 

 

 

 

I'd sure hate to 1. Have a vaccine-injured child and all the pain and suffering that entails and then 2. Have to try to win an award in vaccine "court."

 

 

People get sick all the time.  People go to the DR and take prescription drugs for all their ailments.  Injuries from drugs, whether from proper or improper use does happen.  Those things are not being questioned.  What I question is why they would purposefully cause a group of people to become dependent in a sense when a large majority of the fringe crowd believe that the government is trying to reduce the population.  Death by vaccine is quite rare,  and if that's what is what they are doing then they obviously haven't been paying attention to the death toll of prescription drugs... 

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Old 12-03-2012, 01:59 PM
 
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What I question is why they would purposefully cause a group of people to become dependent in a sense when a large majority of the fringe crowd believe that the government is trying to reduce the population.  Death by vaccine is quite rare,  and if that's what is what they are doing then they obviously haven't been paying attention to the death toll of prescription drugs... 

 

It's hard to know why, but since there's plenty of evidence showing that they're doing it we need to act accordingly.

 

Because of what they do I will take most government recommendations, especially when it comes to health or the economy, with a huge grain of salt.

 

I don't think they necessarily want to kill people off; just make them sick and dumb enough to stay on plenty of prescription meds, preferably from cradle to grave.


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Old 12-03-2012, 02:01 PM
 
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I take issue with the idea that there's plenty of evidence they're covering things up. I think there's plenty of spin and little to no actual evidence.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:02 PM
 
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What does the GOVERNMENT get out of keeping people on prescription drugs? Especially if it makes people so sick they can't work and draw government assistance?
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:09 PM
 
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I take issue with the idea that there's plenty of evidence they're covering things up. I think there's plenty of spin and little to no actual evidence.

 

Maybe you didn't see my quote from Wikipdedia?
 

Unethical human experimentation in the United States

 

 

 

Quote:

 

There have been numerous experiments performed on human test subjects in the United States that have been considered unethical, and were often performed illegally, without the knowledge, consent, or informed consent of the test subjects.
 
The experiments include: the deliberate infection of people with deadly or debilitating diseases, exposure of people to biological and chemical weapons, human radiation experiments, injection of people with toxic andradioactive chemicals, surgicalexperiments, interrogation/tortureexperiments, tests involving mind-altering substances, and a wide variety of others. Many of these tests were performed on children, the sick, andmentally disabled individuals, often under the guise of "medical treatment".

 

 

These experiments were funded by the U.S. government and private corporations.

 

I often wonder what they are doing this very minute that will be revealed in twenty or fifty years.


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Old 12-03-2012, 02:18 PM
 
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Whenever the vaccines/autism link comes up, I always think of this article. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/autism/la-me-autism-day-four-html,0,6403471.htmlstory . The general point is that if you survey populations of people of various ages, there is always about a 1% rate of mental disabilities that look a lot like autism, but typically in previous generations they were diagnosed as something else or never diagnosed at all. 

I watched the Safeminds link a few days ago where both the speaker and interviewer were saying how neither had noticed 1% of the adult population having autism. They were calling it a invisible horde.  Where are those people?  It's a mystery. 

 

In the study where they went door-to-door looking for people with autism, they found about 1% of adults had autism.  Here is the thing though - none of the adults knew they had it!  http://www.dailyrx.com/autism-adults-often-undiagnosed

 

I know 7 kids with autism (not a typo - but I work with kids a lot).  In 6/7 of the cases it is crystal clear the kids have autism.  These are not people hiding in plain sight.  With the exception of very high functioning aspergers, autism is not a disorder you "miss"

 

My opinion:  they are looking for and finding a cohort of adults they claim have autism so they can claim autism is genetic and has always been with us at this rate.  It simply makes little sense, though, there is not a large (1%) cohort of adults with autism.  I thought this blog put it quite well:http://autismjabberwocky.blogspot.ca/2009/09/hidden-horde-of-adults-with-autism.html


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Old 12-03-2012, 02:20 PM
 
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Maybe you didn't see my quote from Wikipdedia?

 
Unethical human experimentation in the United States




These experiments were funded by the U.S. government and private corporations.

I often wonder what they are doing this very minute that will be revealed in twenty or fifty years.

Sorry, I was speaking specifically wrt a current conspiracy and vaccines. I'm aware of our governments checkered past.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:26 PM
 
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 What I question is why they would purposefully cause a group of people to become dependent in a sense when a large majority of the fringe crowd believe that the government is trying to reduce the population. 

Define "fringe crowd."

 

If by fringe crowd you mean non-vaxxers, then I think you are wrong.  Some non-vaxxers believe the government is trying to reduce the population, but I suspect strongly they are the minority.  A poll could sort it out.  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 12-03-2012, 02:26 PM
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I don't think they necessarily want to kill people off; just make them sick and dumb enough to stay on plenty of prescription meds, preferably from cradle to grave.

"Dumb enough" is a pretty offensive thing to say about people with autism.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:29 PM
 
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Define "fringe crowd."

If by fringe crowd you mean non-vaxxers, then I think you are wrong.  Some non-vaxxers believe the government is trying to reduce the population, but I suspect strongly they are the minority.  A poll could sort it out.  

Psst, I think fringe crowd means the minority who believe such things.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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 What I question is why they would purposefully cause a group of people to become dependent in a sense when a large majority of the fringe crowd believe that the government is trying to reduce the population.  

 

But the original post did not accuse the government of trying to reduce the population, and neither have I.  EVER.  

 

You're making a lot of grossly mistaken assumptions, either about the government, or about the people who are sharing the evidence of the government coverup.

 

You might as well ask why would the tobacco companies purposefully cause a large group of people to become dependent on tobacco, and/or get cancer. Just try not to assume that we believe that either the government or the tobacco companies are trying to reduce the population, please. We parents who question or even criticize vaccine safety are getting tired of being painted as "anti-vaxers" (when our children were injured by vaccinations BECAUSE we agreed to let them be vaccinated), or paranoid zealouts who think that everyone is out to get them.

 

Let's try and have a mature discussion of the facts presented in the OP, rather than attack the messengers, shall we?

 

We don't debate whether or not the tobacco companies had valid motivation for covering up evidence that tobacco causes cancer, and we don't debate their motivation fo adding addictive chemicals to cigarettes.   To try to  debate the validity of motivation to cover up vaccine-induced autism cases will only call into question the motivation of the person instigating such a debate.

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Old 12-03-2012, 02:36 PM
 
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….. when a large majority of the fringe crowd believe that the government is trying to reduce the population.  

 

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Psst, I think fringe crowd means the minority who believe such things.

That is not what she said.


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Old 12-03-2012, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I don't think they necessarily want to kill people off; just make them sick and dumb enough to stay on plenty of prescription meds, preferably from cradle to grave.
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"Dumb enough" is a pretty offensive thing to say about people with autism.

 

She didn't mention autistic people in her post; I think it was pretty clear she wasn't talking about autistic people.  Besides, autism isn't curable or even treatable with prescription meds. There is no "anti-autism" pill.

 

Perhaps you misunderstood?

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Brian Hooker of Autsim Action Network's testimony to the committee:

 

 

 

Quote:
Dr. Brian Hooker has spent a decade using the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) to extract documents from the Centers for Disease Control (CDC) regarding the CDC's investigation regarding the role vaccines have played in causing the autism epidemic. The CDC claims there is no association between vaccines and autism. Fr
om the documents he has gathered thus far Dr. Hooker has discovered, however, information that reveals otherwise.

 

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Old 12-03-2012, 02:55 PM
 
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I watched the Safeminds link a few days ago where both the speaker and interviewer were saying how neither had noticed 1% of the adult population having autism. They were calling it a invisible horde.  Where are those people?  It's a mystery. 

 

In the study where they went door-to-door looking for people with autism, they found about 1% of adults had autism.  Here is the thing though - none of the adults knew they had it!  http://www.dailyrx.com/autism-adults-often-undiagnosed

 

I know 7 kids with autism (not a typo - but I work with kids a lot).  In 6/7 of the cases it is crystal clear the kids have autism.  These are not people hiding in plain sight.  With the exception of very high functioning aspergers, autism is not a disorder you "miss"

 

My opinion:  they are looking for and finding a cohort of adults they claim have autism so they can claim autism is genetic and has always been with us at this rate.  It simply makes little sense, though, there is not a large (1%) cohort of adults with autism.  I thought this blog put it quite well:http://autismjabberwocky.blogspot.ca/2009/09/hidden-horde-of-adults-with-autism.html

Kathy, did you read the article I linked? The point here is that autism was not even on the radar in previous generations, so what would seem obvious now wasn't obvious to them. Some of these people were diagnosed with something else (for example, committed to a mental institution for paranoid schizophrenia), some were living out their lives in fr'instance their elderly parents' basement, not holding a job or doing much of anything, some had always had difficulty with living life or holding a job and then when a younger relative was diagnosed it was realized that they were also on the spectrum. One of my best friends (born 1982) is probably an Aspie, but they didn't have that diagnosis when we were little. She was diagnosed with ADHD and several other things, but only realized she might also be an Aspie when a younger relative was diagnosed less than 10 years ago.  

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I don't think they necessarily want to kill people off; just make them sick and dumb enough to stay on plenty of prescription meds, preferably from cradle to grave.



She didn't mention autistic people in her post; I think it was pretty clear she wasn't talking about autistic people.  Besides, autism isn't curable or even treatable with prescription meds. There is no "anti-autism" pill.

Perhaps you misunderstood?

It's a thread about autism, of course she's talking about autistic people. If not, then she's off topic and needs to edit her post to stay on topic.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:11 PM
 
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Maybe you didn't see my quote from Wikipdedia?

 
Unethical human experimentation in the United States


These experiments were funded by the U.S. government and private corporations.

I often wonder what they are doing this very minute that will be revealed in twenty or fifty years.

Sorry, I was speaking specifically wrt a current conspiracy and vaccines. I'm aware of our governments checkered past.

 

I so wish I could believe that the government suddenly grew a conscience and this is all "in the past." 

 

There was a paragraph on vaccines; it starts at

 

 

Quote:

From the 1950s to 1972, mentally disabled children at the Willowbrook State School in Staten Island, New York were intentionally infected with viral hepatitis, in research whose purpose was to help discover a vaccine.

 

Children were fed an extract made from the feces of people infected with viral hepatitis. 

 

There are references to current little-known outrages that have occurred since 2000, although the entry acknowledges that drug trials are now conducted in third world countries where "informed consent" isn't   given and regulations are rare or non-existent (perhaps to escape scrutiny from regular people like us who know how to find things on the Internet).

 

There's been at least one MDC thread on how a lot of vaccines are tested in third world countries.


The article quoted from a Vanity Fair article, "Deadly Medicine" that looks interesting.


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Old 12-03-2012, 03:14 PM
 
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But the original post did not accuse the government of trying to reduce the population, and neither have I.  EVER.  

 

You're making a lot of grossly mistaken assumptions, either about the government, or about the people who are sharing the evidence of the government coverup.

 

You might as well ask why would the tobacco companies purposefully cause a large group of people to become dependent on tobacco, and/or get cancer. Just try not to assume that we believe that either the government or the tobacco companies are trying to reduce the population, please. We parents who question or even criticize vaccine safety are getting tired of being painted as "anti-vaxers" (when our children were injured by vaccinations BECAUSE we agreed to let them be vaccinated), or paranoid zealouts who think that everyone is out to get them.

 

Let's try and have a mature discussion of the facts presented in the OP, rather than attack the messengers, shall we?

 

We don't debate whether or not the tobacco companies had valid motivation for covering up evidence that tobacco causes cancer, and we don't debate their motivation fo adding addictive chemicals to cigarettes.   To try to  debate the validity of motivation to cover up vaccine-induced autism cases will only call into question the motivation of the person instigating such a debate.

 

I'm sorry that I caused the thread to derail a bit. 


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Old 12-03-2012, 03:42 PM
 
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I don't think they necessarily want to kill people off; just make them sick and dumb enough to stay on plenty of prescription meds, preferably from cradle to grave.
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"Dumb enough" is a pretty offensive thing to say about people with autism.

 

She didn't mention autistic people in her post; I think it was pretty clear she wasn't talking about autistic people.  Besides, autism isn't curable or even treatable with prescription meds. There is no "anti-autism" pill.

 

Thanks; you're right I didn't mean the autistic; never mind that sadly there is no "anti-autism"  pill.


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Old 12-03-2012, 03:44 PM
 
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Kathy, did you read the article I linked? The point here is that autism was not even on the radar in previous generations, so what would seem obvious now wasn't obvious to them. Some of these people were diagnosed with something else (for example, committed to a mental institution for paranoid schizophrenia), some were living out their lives in fr'instance their elderly parents' basement, not holding a job or doing much of anything, some had always had difficulty with living life or holding a job and then when a younger relative was diagnosed it was realized that they were also on the spectrum. One of my best friends (born 1982) is probably an Aspie, but they didn't have that diagnosis when we were little. She was diagnosed with ADHD and several other things, but only realized she might also be an Aspie when a younger relative was diagnosed less than 10 years ago.  

Not yet.  I will read it.  High functioning aspies might have been missed in years gone past, but all forms of autism are increasing and some of those would not be missed.  

 

Here is an interesting image - it proposes that only about 25% of cases of autism are now called autism when they once would have been called mental retardation.

 

All in all, it proposes that 46% of the rise in autism is attributed to unknown causes.  

 

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111102/full/479022a/box/2.html


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Old 12-03-2012, 03:46 PM
 
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Maybe you didn't see my quote from Wikipdedia?
 

Unethical human experimentation in the United States

 

 

 

 

These experiments were funded by the U.S. government and private corporations.

 

I often wonder what they are doing this very minute that will be revealed in twenty or fifty years.

 

Wikipedia is not a valid and unbiased source. It is a free encyclopedia that anyone can edit and add to.

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Wikipedia is not a valid and unbiased source. It is a free encyclopedia that anyone can edit and add to.

 

That article is extensively cited.


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Old 12-03-2012, 03:50 PM
 
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I'm sorry that I caused the thread to derail a bit. 

You didn't.  It was derailed long before you started to post.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 12-03-2012, 03:51 PM
 
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The article quoted from a Vanity Fair article, "Deadly Medicine" that looks interesting.

Great article, thanks for the link! It is well worth reading- gives further insight into the motivations of the huge, profit hungry pharmaceutical industry.
Don't fool yourself for one second into thinking they care about benefitting humanity or improving quality of life for children one iota. They want to sell product, plain and simple. And "government" in a democracy is run by the people who stand up and make themselves heard... Well, pharma speaks with a very loud voice, folks. Our government IS pharma. And big AG, big Oil, etc. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to recognize corruption when it's right in front of your face.

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Not yet.  I will read it.  High functioning aspies might have been missed in years gone past, but all forms of autism are increasing and some of those would not be missed.  

Here is an interesting image - it proposes that only about 25% of cases of autism are now called autism when they once would have been called mental retardation.

All in all, it proposes that 46% of the rise in autism is attributed to unknown causes.  

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111102/full/479022a/box/2.html

I've seen that statistic before and I am in no way saying its definitely false, but there are several studies around that have found a similar or same rate of autism in older generations as I'm the current one. Just offering that as an "opinions vary" thing, not an I'm right and you're wrong thing.
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Don't fool yourself for one second into thinking they care about benefitting humanity or improving quality of life for children one iota. They want to sell product, plain and simple. And "government" in a democracy is run by the people who stand up and make themselves heard... Well, pharma speaks with a very loud voice, folks. 

 

Good point.

 

An article on big pharm and its influence on politics and life:

 

http://www.drugwatch.com/2012/01/19/influence-of-big-pharma/


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Old 12-03-2012, 04:01 PM
 
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Not yet.  I will read it.  High functioning aspies might have been missed in years gone past, but all forms of autism are increasing and some of those would not be missed.  

 

Here is an interesting image - it proposes that only about 25% of cases of autism are now called autism when they once would have been called mental retardation.

 

All in all, it proposes that 46% of the rise in autism is attributed to unknown causes.  

 

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/111102/full/479022a/box/2.html

In the Israeli study, Advancing Paternal Age and Autism, Asperger's was even more rare than autism in the 1980s, the rate of classical autism was 8.4 in 10,000 with even fewer Asperger's. So increase of people with Asperger's syndrome is even more dramatic and serious than that of autism. The data was obtained using current diagnostic criteria so is comparable with current data for current cases.


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Old 12-03-2012, 04:31 PM
 
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Wikipedia is not a valid and unbiased source. It is a free encyclopedia that anyone can edit and add to.

 

That article is extensively cited.

 

Yes.

 

And normally I'd agree with you MM. I actually am a little surprised it's even in there.

 

But believe it or not the 167 references are just the beginning of its sources.


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Old 12-03-2012, 04:42 PM
 
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You are missing the links

It's not that government wants this. The federal advisory committees are comprised of drug company high level expert employees. While this violates all FACA guidelines, it is the case at the FDA (VRBAC) the CDC ( APIC) and the HHS (NVAC).

the federal bodies set up to regulate the industry, is the industry. Just as in the gas and oil and the banking industry.

legislators vote with re-election in mind. If you do not support big industries interest, you will not have funding for your next run.

ANd, those of the federal advisory committtees that aren't pharma employees become employees or lobbyists for the industry.

It is a revolving door and it is completely rigged.

This goes for all the regulatory committees.

Big industry is running our federal advisory committees as well as congress.

TB

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Old 12-03-2012, 06:02 PM
 
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Right. If many people with autism (though not all, certainly) require more services from the government (early intervention, speech therapy, public preschool for special needs, special education, etc), surely that's costing the government a pretty penny. They would have an incentive to keep people as healthy as possible to save money. So how do you think that works?

I'm slightly surprised by the naivete of this comment and question.  First, the money doesn't come out of the pockets of any of those involved in the policy making process.  It comes out of tax dollars.  Second, there is a huge profit margin in vaccines.  Why vaccines?  Because vaccines are protected by law against lawsuits because of the terrifying possibility that if vaccines were not profitable, major pharmaceutical manufacturing corporations would stop making them.  No lawsuits, maximum profits.  Third, Big Pharm provides huge campaign contributions.  If any elected official were to question the safety of vaccines, that money train would stop, and coincidentally, their political opponents would start getting those big contributions.  Fourth, there is a strong denial of the risks of vaccines, even of thimerosal (ethyl mercury), even when injected into the bloodstream of an expectant mother, a neonatal infant, or a toddler.  The human brain is still developing at this point.  To say that mercury could be harmful would be admitting that the politician was wrong, and was an accessory to the harming and even death of countless children.  And last, the incident rate of 1 in 88 children with Autistic Spectrum Disorder was only revised in May 2012, and is in fact based on studies of children from 2008.  The ASD rate is growing apace with the increasing vaccine schedule.  And we still don't know how many other children are harmed in other ways, such as SIDS, autoimmune disorders, allergic reactions, gastrointestinal problems, neuropathies, and a long additional list. There has been no conclusive study conducted to determine in this country if vaccinated versus unvaccinated children are healthier.  Dr. Colleen Boyle of the CDC admitted this in testimony to Congress.  Not enough research has been done, despite being well aware of the escalating epidemic.  Coincidentally, many of the CDC's top officials and researchers go into the pharmaceutical industry after leaving the CDC.  They tend to be VERY well paid.   The "government" is not a single entity who feels the pain of having to provide more services to a growing percentage of the population.  It is not a corporation who acts when revenues decline.  It is a big pile of elected officials, each with their own agenda, getting re-elected.  They get paid whether they save or endanger their constituency.

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