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#61 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 06:23 PM
 
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#62 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 06:29 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Originally Posted by Eligracey View Post


Bwahahahaha!!!!!
Dude, vaccines actually lose money for everyone involved. 

You're new here, so you must have missed the thread where irrefutable proof was posted that vaccines are a multi-billion dollar industry.  But that's okay.  :)  We can always post more proof:  http://www.visiongain.com/Press_Release/235/Vaccines-market-will-reach-33-8-billion-in-2012-visiongain-report-predicts

 

"LONDON, UK. 25th July 2012: A new report by visiongain predicts that the 2012 world market forvaccines to treat human beings will reach $33.8 billion. That revenue forecast appears in World Vaccines Market 2012-2022, published in July 2012. Visiongain is a business information provider based in London, UK."

 

"Dr James Evans, a pharmaceutical industry analyst in visiongain, said: “Pfizer’s Prevnar-13, the biggest vaccine franchise in the world in 2011 with sales of $3.7bn, is soon to be extended to adults. It’s the first multi-billion dollar vaccine franchise, and it will replace Lipitor as Pfizer’s biggest product.

“That’s a symbolic moment: vaccines are joining other biological products as the main driver for the pharmaceutical industry overall. The expansion of the therapeutic vaccines segment will accelerate that process, with vaccine treatments for melanoma, ovarian and lung cancers in the next ten years.”"

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#63 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 06:29 PM
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Here you go:

"  Manufacturers are going to direct capital to those products whose markets provide the most stability and highest profit margins.  Vaccines account for only 2 percent of pharmaceutical revenues. Thus, if profit margins continue to decline, it is highly likely that pharmaceutical manufacturers will continue to replace vaccine production with more profitable drug production."

From:

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba655
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#64 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Something's not adding up. That article ( which is from 2009) talks about huge shortages in nearly half of all pediatric vaccines, resulting in unvaccinated children. But he doesn't cite his sources for such information, which doesn't jive with all the independent reports of vaccines being a multibillion dollar industry (as referenced above).

 

Makes me wonder who funds the National Center for Policy Analysis.  The nature of politics, unfortunately, is widespread corruption, particularly when a multibillion dollar industry's profits are on the line...

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#65 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 06:55 PM
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You're new here, so you must have missed the thread where irrefutable proof was posted that vaccines are a multi-billion dollar industry.  But that's okay.  smile.gif  We can always post more proof:  http://www.visiongain.com/Press_Release/235/Vaccines-market-will-reach-33-8-billion-in-2012-visiongain-report-predicts

"LONDON, UK. 25th July 2012: A new report by visiongain

 predicts that the 2012 world market

 forvaccines

 to treat human beings will reach $33.8 billion. That revenue forecast appears in World Vaccines Market 2012-2022, published in July 2012. Visiongain is a business information provider based in London, UK."

"Dr James Evans, a pharmaceutical industry analyst in visiongain, said: “Pfizer’s Prevnar-13, the biggest vaccine franchise in the world in 2011 with sales of $3.7bn, is soon to be extended to adults. It’s the first multi-billion dollar vaccine franchise, and it will replace Lipitor as Pfizer’s biggest product.

“That’s a symbolic moment: vaccines are joining other biological products as the main driver for the pharmaceutical industry overall. The expansion of the therapeutic vaccines segment will accelerate that process, with vaccine treatments for melanoma, ovarian and lung cancers in the next ten years.”"



I've been here since 2009, taxi mum.

And visiongain's website says:

"Visiongain is one of the fastest growing and most innovative independent media companies in Europe. Based in London, UK, visiongain produces a host of business-2-business conferences, newsletters, management reports and e-zines focusing on the Energy, Telecoms, Pharmaceutical, Defence, Materials sectors.
Visiongain publishes reports produced by its in-house analysts."

It's a media company. NOT science. Try again.
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#66 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 06:59 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

"LONDON, UK. 25th July 2012: A new report by visiongain predicts that the 2012 world market forvaccines to treat human beings will reach $33.8 billion. That revenue forecast appears in World Vaccines Market 2012-2022, published in July 2012. Visiongain is a business information provider based in London, UK."

 

"Dr James Evans, a pharmaceutical industry analyst in visiongain, said: “Pfizer’s Prevnar-13, the biggest vaccine franchise in the world in 2011 with sales of $3.7bn, is soon to be extended to adults. It’s the first multi-billion dollar vaccine franchise, and it will replace Lipitor as Pfizer’s biggest product.

“That’s a symbolic moment: vaccines are joining other biological products as the main driver for the pharmaceutical industry overall. The expansion of the therapeutic vaccines segment will accelerate that process, with vaccine treatments for melanoma, ovarian and lung cancers in the next ten years.”"

 

I saw something similar: The following article is based on a Kalorama Information report:

 

Sales of new vaccines expected to reach $24B b y 2020

 

This company does market research, and their $5,000 report is based on the interviews and reviews of potential vaccine products in Clinical Trials Phases I-III (Phase III is the final testing phase before Phase IV: Postapproval studies).


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#67 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 06:59 PM
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For future reference, I will only accept as actual science an article published in a peer reviewed journal indexed on PubMed.
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#68 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 06:59 PM
 
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Bwahahahaha!!!!!
Dude, vaccines actually lose money for everyone involved. Drug companies make the big bucks from fancy new meds that are still under patent.

Vaccines are made by corporations.  Corporations do not maintain product lines that don't make money.  24 billion in 2009.  someone please pour me a coffee so I can cry into it.  

 

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/site/home/permalink/?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20100115005381&newsLang=en

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#69 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 07:01 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

Something's not adding up. That article ( which is from 2009) talks about huge shortages in nearly half of all pediatric vaccines, resulting in unvaccinated children. But he doesn't cite his sources for such information, which doesn't jive with all the independent reports of vaccines being a multibillion dollar industry (as referenced above).

 

Makes me wonder who funds the National Center for Policy Analysis.  The nature of politics, unfortunately, is widespread corruption, particularly when a multibillion dollar industry's profits are on the line...

 

It's probably just fear-mongering so that people will rush out and get all the vaccines before there's a "shortage."


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#70 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 07:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eligracey View Post


Bwahahahaha!!!!!
Dude, vaccines actually lose money for everyone involved. Drug companies make the big bucks from fancy new meds that are still under patent.

Vaccines are made by corporations.  Corporations do not maintain product lines that don't make money.

 

I agree. And it appears that they are branching out and trying to find a vaccine for X, Y and Z. 


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#71 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 07:05 PM
 
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Corporations do make products that make them little or no money when they are contractually obligated. There is some truth to that theory, though, as reflected by the fact that the number of companies making vaccines has plummeted from 26 to 5 in recent history (I'm going from memory there, so forgive me if I'm off by a little.)
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#72 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 07:06 PM
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Also, chicharronita, what you posted is about new vaccines that are still under patent. I already agreed that everything under patent has the potential to be a moneymaker. What I'm talking about is things like Polio and MMR, for which the patent expired long ago.
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#73 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 07:16 PM
 
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Corporations do make products that make them little or no money when they are contractually obligated. There is some truth to that theory, though, as reflected by the fact that the number of companies making vaccines has plummeted from 26 to 5 in recent history (I'm going from memory there, so forgive me if I'm off by a little.)

Or they have a monopoly - like oil consortiums and big banks in Canada.  Microsoft.  (note:  I am not saying vaccines make the kind of money this list does, just that the argument that only 5 companies now exist, therefore they do not make money, is not true)

 

A monopoly on a product or oligarchy does not automatically equal low revenue.

 

Personally, I have never claimed vaccines were a huge profit maker  for pharmaceutical companies - none-the-less they still make money for pharmaceutical companies.  Both these facts are pretty easy to ascertain


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#74 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 07:19 PM
 
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Here you go:
"  Manufacturers are going to direct capital to those products whose markets provide the most stability and highest profit margins.  Vaccines account for only 2 percent of pharmaceutical revenues. Thus, if profit margins continue to decline, it is highly likely that pharmaceutical manufacturers will continue to replace vaccine production with more profitable drug production."
From:
http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba655

 

This is not a PubMed, peer-reviewed article either.


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#75 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 07:21 PM
 
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Personally, I have never claimed vaccines were a huge profit maker  for pharmaceutical companies - none-the-less they still make money for pharmaceutical companies.  Both these facts are pretty easy to ascertain

Yes, it's as easy as a Google search.

 

Wasn't something posted from a pharmaceutical industry insider website recently? I think Taximom posted it, but I can't find it.


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Or they have a monopoly - like oil consortiums and big banks in Canada.  Microsoft.  (note:  I am not saying vaccines make the kind of money this list does, just that the argument that only 5 companies now exist, therefore they do not make money, is not true)

A monopoly on a product or oligarchy does not automatically equal low revenue.

Personally, I have never claimed vaccines were a huge profit maker  for pharmaceutical companies - none-the-less they still make money for pharmaceutical companies.  Both these facts are pretty easy to ascertain

It's not that they don't make money because there are only five companies, it's that there are only five companies because they don't make money. Most of the companies that used to manufacture vaccines have left for the greener pastures of manufacturing drugs.
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Does anyone have any more information about this? Is it true that cases that are won are sealed so that attorneys aren't allowed to review the medical documentation?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post

I find this very disturbing:

 

Quote:
Sidenote:  In real courts, precedent is a determining factor in theoretical causation.  Precedent is not permitted in vaccine court.  Meaning, any case that is won is sealed and attorneys are not allowed to review the medical documentation that influenced the award in that case. Vaccine court is not a court, but rather an administrative proceeding that takes place at the DOJ, which is an extension of DHHS.  The same agency tasked with promoting and marketing vaccines to the public.

 

 


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But here's one I'll just provide bits and pieces to, since apparently less information is better than more, according to the UA:

 

Sci Context. 2011 Mar;24(1):107-25.

Dilemmas of a vitalizing vaccine market: lessons from the MMR vaccine/autism debate.

Source

University of Gothenburg, Sweden.

 

"The first shows how the vaccine market, which for many years has had immense financial problems, nowadays seems to becoming economically vitalized, mostly due to the production of new and profitable vaccines. ....the vaccine market remains vulnerable and insecure"

 

 

See?  New vaxxes under patent = profit.

 

Old vaxxes not under patent = immense financial problems.

 

 

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Anyone?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post

Does anyone have any more information about this? Is it true that cases that are won are sealed so that attorneys aren't allowed to review the medical documentation?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post

I find this very disturbing:

 

Quote:
Sidenote:  In real courts, precedent is a determining factor in theoretical causation.  Precedent is not permitted in vaccine court.  Meaning, any case that is won is sealed and attorneys are not allowed to review the medical documentation that influenced the award in that case. Vaccine court is not a court, but rather an administrative proceeding that takes place at the DOJ, which is an extension of DHHS.  The same agency tasked with promoting and marketing vaccines to the public.

 

 


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Was it really necessary to post this twice in two minutes?

Have you actually read the requirements for getting compensation from vaccine court?
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It's not that they don't make money because there are only five companies, it's that there are only five companies because they don't make money. Most of the companies that used to manufacture vaccines have left for the greener pastures of manufacturing drugs.

I  suspect vaccines might be a bit of a public relations move for some Big pharm companies.  Most of the world sees vaccines as good, so creating and marketing vaccines might cast them in a positive light, get their name further known, and thus generate more money.

 

The Toronto Dominion bank has an environmental fund - yeah, I bet most of the employees like it, but let's face it:  they have such a program because it makes them look good in the eyes of the community.

 

Vaccines might have some of that going on as well.

 

Vaccines are admittedly very expensive to produce, that might be a part of why there are only 5 companies who make them.  The companies that make vaccines do make money off them, though.


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#82 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 07:35 PM
 
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Sure. But not nearly as much as they could make if they devoted those resources to a drug.

I'm not sure vaccines are good pr. The publics capacity to tolerate a side effect is much much lower than for a typical drug and vaccines aren't exactly popular' even among people who use them. Needles aren't typically good for your image.
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*Shrug* Feel free to talk about the originally-posted article.


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#84 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 08:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post

*Shrug* Feel free to talk about the originally-posted article.

Are we allowed to do that? I want to make really sure not to violate the UA.

Just try it, you might like it! ;-) 

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Bwahahahaha!!!!!

Dude, vaccines actually lose money for everyone involved. Drug companies make the big bucks from fancy new meds that are still under patent.

Oh really?

 

20 Top-selling Vaccines  - H1 2012

 

 

 

Quote:
Data on the biggest-selling vaccines helps us understand what's driving growth in the vaccines industry, and which companies are behind the wheel. Thanks in part to the adult influenza market and vaccines such as Gardasil and Prevnar, the global vaccines market has enjoyed a decidedly solid boost in revenue. Ten years ago, the vaccine market sat at $5.7 billion, according to Kalorama Information. Now, that market has soared to $27 billion.

 

1. Prevnar 13

   H1 - sales $1.847 billion

   Company: Pfizer

 

2. PENTAct -HIB

    H1 - sales $672 million

    Company: Sanofi

 

3. Gardasil

    H1 - sales $608 million

    Company: Merck

 

MMR II made the list at number 18, with first half sales of $180 million.

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Thanks Mirzam! This is the site I was looking for. 


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Sales = profit!

Simple!

Oh. Wait.
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#88 of 281 Old 12-03-2012, 08:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Data on the biggest-selling vaccines helps us understand what's driving growth in the vaccines industry, and which companies are behind the wheel. Thanks in part to the adult influenza market and vaccines such as Gardasil and Prevnar, the global vaccines market has enjoyed a decidedly solid boost in revenue. Ten years ago, the vaccine market sat at $5.7 billion, according to Kalorama Information. Now, that market has soared to $27 billion.

 

 

 

So, it looks like the Fierce site takes the information from Kalorama seriously.

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Vaccines become drugmakers' profit boosters

 

Straight from the horses mouth:

 

 

 

Quote:
"Even if a small portion of everything that's going on now is successful in the next 10 years, you put that together with the last 10 years, (and) it's going to be characterized as a golden era," said Emilio Emini, Pfizer Inc.'s head of vaccine research.

 

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Vaccines become drugmakers' profit boosters

 

 

 

Quote:

 

Contrast that with five years ago, when so many companies had abandoned the vaccine business that half the U.S. supply of flu shots was lost because of factory contamination at one of the two manufacturers left.

 

I wonder what contamination they're referring to. 


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