Partial list of 2012 flu shot deaths and injuries - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 56 Old 12-03-2012, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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"This is a partial list of cases that were awarded damages by the US Government via the “Vaccine Court”, which is a federal court of claims for the FLU VACCINE."

 

Before anybody tries to discredit the veracity of these cases by launching an ad hominem attack against Dr. Tenpenny, you should realize that each case has an imbedded link which takes you directly to the judgment for each case.

 

There are 60 cases listed here.

 

 

http://drtenpenny.com/vaccine-court-judgements-for-flu-shot-injuries/

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#2 of 56 Old 12-03-2012, 05:55 PM
 
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Wow. Thanks for posting.

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#3 of 56 Old 12-03-2012, 08:47 PM
 
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Did her information come from this page:

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/opinions_decisions_vaccine/Published

 

There's five pages of cases just for this year.

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#4 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 05:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Did her information come from this page:

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/opinions_decisions_vaccine/Published

 

There's five pages of cases just for this year.

Well, holy heck, there's a lot of information there.

 

I find this particularly chilling:  http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/LORD.KENNEDY050812.pdf

 

 

 

"Confusion may occur where, as here, the Secretary’s main response to a petitioner’s case is to suggest an unrelated causative factor. As discussed below in regard to Doe 11, proving alternative causation is only one of the ways the Secretary can defeat a vaccine injury claim. Another way is to challenge the validity of the evidence presented in the petitioner’s case-in-chief. The Secretary hardly undertook the effort of challenging Petitioner’s factual presentation here. The evidence she did present, including evidence of possible alternative causation, was not sufficient to persuade me that viral causation was more likely than vaccine causation.

If the Secretary had identified a specific virus that she alleged caused Petitioner’s ADEM, it might have increased the weight of the evidence in rebuttal of Petitioner’s showing. That would have been a different case. But it was not necessary for the Secretary to present evidence of a specific infectious agent in order to rebut Petitioner’s case. If Petitioner had presented weaker evidence of vaccine causation, or the Secretary had presented stronger evidence of non-vaccine causation, the Secretarymight well have prevailed without identifying any alternative causative factor, and certainly without needing to specify the suspected viral agent."

 

Well, THAT certainly proves previous claims by the pro-vaxxers that you only need to prove that it was POSSIBLE for vaccines to cause your injury to win your case.  In fact, here the Special Master is giving the Secretary instructions on how they could have avoided losing this cases, and saying all she needed to do was to identify a specific virus that MIGHT have caused the petitioner's ADEM in order to throw the case out.  No need to present evidence that he actually had it, just identify one!

 

The Special Master clearly believes that the Secretary's job here is to challenge the Petitioner's factual presentation, and to "prevail."  His words.

 

Yes, "Vaccine Court" is an extremely adversarial process.  And this has been stated time after time after time by petitioners who actually WON their cases.  And here, we can see why.

 

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#5 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 06:01 AM
 
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From the list given by the Op, I surprised by how much  Acute demyelinating encephalomyelitis there was.

 

ADEM:

http://myelitis.org/symptoms-conditions/acute-disseminated-encephalomyelitis/

 

It turns out vaccine cause about 5% of ADEM cases.  


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#6 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 10:19 AM
 
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I notice that most of them are for Guillain-Barre syndrome.  GBS has been associated with the flu vaccine since the swine flu vaccine in the 1970's was found to cause about one extra case of GBS per 100,000 vaccinations. Since then, the vast majority of studies have not found an association between GBS and any other flu vaccine.  A couple of studies have turned up a very minor association of 1 extra case per million.  So it is not clear whether or not modern flu vaccines can cause GBS, but if they do, it is very rare. 

 

It is not uncommon for the cause of GBS to be unknown.  It appears if you have a case of GBS with no identifiable cause and have not had a vaccine in ages, you are just SOL.  If you are fortunate enough though to have had a fairly recent flu vaccine before GBS, well it still is an awful, awful disease, but at least there is some compensation to cover medical bills and missed work and such since it can not be proved that the flu vaccine didn't cause it and the vaccine court is generous.  This does not mean that all those cases were actually caused by the flu vaccine though.  In fact, each case is careful to mention that the respondent denies a connection, but they are settling anyway.  I'm glad that some people who suffer from this terrible condition get financial help.  I wish there was more social programs to help those who had GBS (and other debilitating conditions) but didn't have a vaccine to try and blame it on.  

 

 

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From the list given by the Op, I surprised by how much  Acute demyelinating encephalomyelitis there was.

 

ADEM:

http://myelitis.org/symptoms-conditions/acute-disseminated-encephalomyelitis/

 

It turns out vaccine cause about 5% of ADEM cases.  

 

 

 

The same link you posted lists a number of vaccine associated with ADEM, but says that the MMR is the most common cause, and live measles vaccination is the only one it gives a frequency number for.  

 

 

 

Quote:
 Currently, the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccinations are most commonly associated with post-vaccinial ADEM. No infectious agent is isolated in most cases.  The incidence of ADEM associated with the live measles vaccination is 1 to 2 per million.

 

I was curious as to how this compared to measles infection itself, so Googled it.  A number of sources appeared to agree on the frequency.  This is just one of them (link is to a pdf):  

 

 

Quote:
Most notoriously, measles virus infection is followed by ADEM in approximately 1
in 1000 cases. Incidences of ADEM after varicella zoster and rubella virus infections are quoted as
1 in 10 000 and 1 in 20 000, respectively

 

So, we have 1 or 2 per million following measles vaccination or 1 per thousand following measles infection.  I know which group I'd rather be standing in.

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#7 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 11:00 AM
 
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We were not discussing MMR - we were discussing flu vaccines.

 

"If you are fortunate enough though to have had a fairly recent flu vaccine before GBS, well it still is an awful, awful disease, but at least there is some compensation to cover medical bills and missed work and such since it can not be proved that the flu vaccine didn't cause it and the vaccine court is generous.  PERS"

 

Wow, just wow.

 
Yes, I pick:
 
Vaccine court and money ( "generous money") over health.  Snort.  Go ahead.  I will pass.  
 
Flu vax is not overly effective anyways, as per Cochrane. 

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#8 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 11:27 AM
 
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Yes, I pick:
 
Vaccine court and money ( "generous money") over health.  Snort.  Go ahead.  I will pass.  
 
Flu vax is not overly effective anyways, as per Cochrane. 

 

I know! I pick taking care of my health without this or any vaccine. It's just not necessary.

 

I haven't had the flu since the 90s. All it takes is extra vigilance during the flu "season" to be sure to rest, eat well, stay hydrated and take vitamins and supplements. 


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#9 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 11:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So, we have 1 or 2 per million following measles vaccination or 1 per thousand following measles infection.  I know which group I'd rather be standing in.

I would TOTALLY agree with you if I thought that there was adequate recognizing and reporting of ADEM and other vaccine-induced severe reactions. 

 

But we already know that such reactions are woefully unrecognized and unreported.  Last I saw, the estimate is that only 1-10% of severe reactions are ever reported to VAERS.

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#10 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 12:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pers View Post"the vaccine court is generous."   and    "I wish there was more social programs to help those who had GBS (and other debilitating conditions) but didn't have a vaccine to try and blame it on."

Speechless!


 
 
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#11 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 12:12 PM
 
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Pers makes a good point that since gbs is on the list of conditions that may be cause by the flu shot, even though it is very rare,the only think that's necessary to receive compensation is to show that you got gbs reasonably soon after getting the flu shot. You do not need to prove that your gbs was caused by the flu shot and not one of the other things that causes gbs. You automatically get compensated. This is the case for anything on the list of known and verified side effects.
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I would TOTALLY agree with you if I thought that there was adequate recognizing and reporting of ADEM and other vaccine-induced severe reactions. 

 

But we already know that such reactions are woefully unrecognized and unreported.  Last I saw, the estimate is that only 1-10% of severe reactions are ever reported to VAERS.

 

This is why I try to encourage people on other boards and Facebook to report reactions, as most people and doctors don't even know about VAERS. It's such a joke! 


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#13 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 12:29 PM
 
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I tr to encourage people to report, too, although I don't necessarily agree with the 1-10% number, especially not for major reactions. I might believe only 1-10% of swelling at the injections site, fever, and the like are reported.
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#14 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 12:47 PM
 
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I hope you're right! But I was blown away when Hannah Poling's mother (formerly a nurse, married to a doctor) admitted neither she nor her doctors (nor her husband, I assume) knew what VAERS was in a CNN press conference.

 

 

Quote (bolding mine):
It is my understanding that although Hannah came in and was diagnosed with a post-vaccine varicella reaction, which is a Chickenpox rash, with all my other complaints, they did not report this to VAERS. I didn't even know what VAERS was and I'm a nurse
 
So, I did report it when I discovered what VAERS was. And I just think it's important to note that most pediatricians either don't have time or do not report to VAERS, so it isn't a really good indicator of how often vaccines might be causing harm. 
 

 

Family of Girl in Autism Vaccine Case Holds News Conference


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#15 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 12:58 PM
 
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We were not discussing MMR - we were discussing flu vaccines.

 

"If you are fortunate enough though to have had a fairly recent flu vaccine before GBS, well it still is an awful, awful disease, but at least there is some compensation to cover medical bills and missed work and such since it can not be proved that the flu vaccine didn't cause it and the vaccine court is generous.  PERS"

 

Wow, just wow.

 
Yes, I pick:
 
Vaccine court and money ( "generous money") over health.  Snort.  Go ahead.  I will pass.  
 
Flu vax is not overly effective anyways, as per Cochrane. 

 

Yes, we were discussing the flu vaccine, but you brought up ADEM and said that about 5% of cases were caused by vaccines (the page you link to actually says "less than 5% of ADEM cases follow immunization," which is just a bit different).  Since the page lists the MMR as the most common cause of it, I wanted to put that number into a bit of context, also giving an indication of just how many cases of ADEM vaccination prevents. ADEM can occur following influenza infection as well, but I have no idea how often it hapens after the flu or how often it happens after the flu vaccine  (other than very rare for both) so can't compare them.  

 

As with GBS, often when ADEM occurs, a specific cause can't be identified.  With an individual case of ADEM following a flu vaccine, there is no way to know if the flu vaccine actually caused it or if it would have happened anyway even of the individual had not gotten the flu shot.  Because the flu shot can't be ruled out though, the court pays. With GBS, many (or possibly even all) of those cases would have happened anyway even had the individual not gotten the flu vaccine, but since a case can be made that the flu vaccine may have caused it, and it could never be proved that it didn't, there you go. 

 

Things like GBS and ADEM and many other devastating illnesses, both rare and common, can happen to anyone. And yes, I think that as a society we should do more to help people affected by debilitating disease because one should not have ones life destroyed/lose home/be stuck in financial ruin due to medical bills and/or employment lost due to illness, etc. It's far better here in Canada than it is for many in the US, but still serious illness comes with many expenses that are not covered by provincial insurance and may not be covered by supplemental insurance either. These are shocking ideas and worthy of a "wow, just wow" I know.  

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#16 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 01:17 PM
 
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Oh good, more generalizing from one data point!

 

Sorry but not  many people who have had their vaccine reaction go unreported have been on CNN!

 

But right there was a whole cluster of medical "professionals" who didn't have a clue. It's not reassuring.


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"Cluster"? I think you mean one.
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Terry, her husband and her doctors.


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Either way, good thing vaers is only one of several methods used for tracking vaccine safety.
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I hope so, if doctors don't even know about VAERS. 


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#21 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You do not need to prove that your gbs was caused by the flu shot and not one of the other things that causes gbs. You automatically get compensated. This is the case for anything on the list of known and verified side effects.

That is not true. If the Vaccine Court can show any other possibility of causation, your case gets thrown out. The court does not have to prove causation.

 

It's an extremely adversarial process, and horrifically stressful.  Everyone who has been through it and talks about, even those who won their cases, says the same thing: they were made to feel that they were on trial, and the Vaccine Court attorneys and medical experts treated them as though they were the scum of the earth.

 

Those who have won were warned that that they were not to talk of their award, or the funds paying for their children's medical bills would be yanked.

 

Some of them talked anyway.

 

Many cases of admitted and compensated vaccine-induced brain damage have included autism.

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#22 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 02:25 PM
 
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Information on the vaccine injury compensation program.

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html

The process is easier if your injury is on the list of recognized vaccine injuries for a particular vaccine. If its not, a greater burden of proof must be met, but it's still much lower than a court of law. Which is why not many people take advantage of the option to opt out and go to civil courts.
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From their booklet on what you need to know about vicp:

What is the Vaccine Injury Table?
The Table makes it easier for some people to get compensation. The Table lists and explains injuries/conditions that are presumed to be caused by vaccines. It also lists time periods in which the first symptom of these injuries/conditions must occur after receiving the vaccine. If the first symptom of these injuries/conditions occur within the listed time periods, it is presumed that the vaccine was the cause of the injury or condition unless another cause is found. For example, if you received the tetanus vaccine and had a severe allergic reaction (anaphylaxis) within 4 hours after receiving the vaccine, then it is presumed that the tetanus vaccine caused the injury if no other cause is found.

ftp://ftp.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/84521_Booklet.pdf

This is particularly relevant to gbs, since the cause is mostly unknown. Cause unknown means no other cause found means vicp concludes vaccine caused it.
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#24 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 02:36 PM
 
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You can see all kinds of decisions the vicp has made here.

http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/opinions_decisions_vaccine/Published

They're not a secret.
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#25 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 02:53 PM
 
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. It's far better here in Canada than it is for many in the US, but still serious illness comes with many expenses that are not covered by provincial insurance and may not be covered by supplemental insurance either. These are shocking ideas and worthy of a "wow, just wow" I know.  

 

The "wow, just wow" was over the idea  that getting money from vaccine court somehow made getting GBS from a vaccine more acceptable.  To quote you  - " but at least there is some compensation."  As if that makes up for anything!

 

ETA:  I understand people suing if they have been injured by a vaccine, but it does not compensate for ill health. 


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#26 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The "wow, just wow" was over the idea the idea that getting money from vaccine court somehow made getting GBS from a vaccine more acceptable  To quote you  - " but at least there is some compensation."  As if that makes up for anything!

Actually, for the people who have died from vaccine-induced GBS, it makes up for nothing.

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#27 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 03:29 PM
 
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One in a million doses of flu shot result in gbs. A fraction of those end in death.
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#28 of 56 Old 12-04-2012, 04:49 PM
 
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The "wow, just wow" was over the idea the idea that getting money from vaccine court somehow made getting GBS from a vaccine more acceptable  To quote you  - " but at least there is some compensation."  As if that makes up for anything!

 

ETA:  I understand people suing if they have been injured by a vaccine, but it does not compensate for ill health. 

 

If I remember correctly, aren't medical bills one of the leading causes of bankruptcy (or maybe even the leading cause) in the US?  

 

Of course monetary compensation doesn't undo the illness. But going through the illness is bad enough without leaving the hospital with a mountain of debt due to medical bills and a prolonged period away from work, maybe even losing your home and having to declare bankruptcy as a result of your illness.  

 

GBS is a rare condition, but in the huge population of the US there are still a few thousand cases every year.  Since there are a lot of people who get flu shots in the US, you would expect by sheer chance to have a number of GBS cases following the flu shot (in fact, if you couldn't find cases, that would be very surprising and indicate a possibility that the flu shot was somehow preventing GBS, or why else would people stop getting it).   As I wrote above, most studies have found no links between flu shots and GBS since the swine flu shots in the 1970's, but a couple studies indicate a slight increase in rate.  So it is not clear if the flu shot causes GBS or not, but if it does, it is very rare. 

 

So if a person gets a flu shot and then starts showing symptoms of GBS later, is it one of these coincidences, or was it caused by the flu shot?  There is absolutely no way to know.  Most likely, it is a coincidence, and even if he/she had skipped the flu shot he/she would have come down with GBS with no identified cause at the same time anyway. But because a case can be made that the flu shot may have caused it, he/she can file with the vaccine court and, after a lot of hassle and bother, be awarded a settlement. Meanwhile the other guy who started showing symptoms of GBS the same week but had not had a vaccine in many years has no such recourse and has now lost his house and is facing bankruptcy due to medical bills and lost wages. 

 

So I am not saying that it is okay if a vaccine injures you because you will get compensation. What I am saying is that there are people who were not injured by vaccines who are getting compensation because of the possibility that a vaccine could have injured them. Statistics tell us that there will be cases of GBS after flu vaccine that are not related to it, and we have absolutely no way of knowing which cases are these coincidences and in which cases (if any) were actually caused by the flu shot.  

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#29 of 56 Old 12-05-2012, 08:50 AM
 
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One in a million doses of flu shot result in gbs. A fraction of those end in death.

I am always suspicious of the statistic '1 in a million' because statistics in round numbers like that are almost always not quantitatively accurate. Can we get a source?
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#30 of 56 Old 12-05-2012, 08:53 AM
 
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And let's clear this up: you can't SUE for a vax rx in the US anymore. You can appeal to the Special Masters for a max of 250G from the VICP.
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