Approved University study to look at... - Mothering Forums
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Vaccinations > Approved University study to look at...
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 12:27 PM 12-05-2012

Vaccinated versus unvaccinated children.

 

I have seen the protocols and the questionnaire, and have minor reservations which I’ve asked the researchers about, but it’s the best study I’ve seen, statistically sound (according to a stats guru I know who analysed it) and is a start in a scientific direction. This study is not an internet flot questionnaire posing as an official study. This is the real deal.

 

There is a blog about this study here: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/12/03/official-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-study-finally-being-done-please-read-and-contribute-suzanne-humphries-md/

 

Another article about it here:

http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/11/unvaccinated-children-and-autism-study-funding-needed-right-now.html

 

You can donate here. https://ssl.charityweb.net/genrescue/index.htm?DonorIntent=Vaccinated+Unvaccinated+Study

 

So let’s discuss this study and what we as parents have a right to know.

In the past, many here have discussed the question: “Is the short and long term health of unvaccinated children WORSE than vaccinated children, or vice versa?”

 

This is also a question recently asked in congress. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiQX0dRejz8

 

Which has lead this man to label these congressmen as anti-vaccine, and say this.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/12/03/congress-holds-an-anti-vaccination-hearing/

 

 

 

Quote:
Congressman Posey, only an extremely unethical scientist would consider conducting such a study. To compare vaccinated versus unvaccinated children in the manner you suggest, one would have to withhold vaccines from young children.

 

 

 

 

Salzburg then makes the statement that such studies have already been done.

 

What people reading his words don’t realise is that a typical example of such a study is children vaccinated with everything EXCEPT MMR compared with children vaccinated with everything AS WELL AS MMR. That’s what they call a vaccinated unvaccinated study.

 

That is not a vaccinated non-vaccinated study in my opinion.

 

This study will look at never vaccinated children, partially vaccinated children and fully vaccinated children between the ages of 6 and 15 years of age. the study group is already selected and read to go.

 

The researchers intend for this study to be published in mainstream peer reviewed medical journals.

 

 

Such a study holds “risks” for both sides of the arguments.

 

1) If it shows that vaccinated children have far better health, then the pro vaccine will hail is as the breakthrough (which they refused to fund and actively opposed) .... a waste of money, but “we told you so”. That's something we will have to wear if it happens, but I don't believe that will be the case.

 

2) If it showed that vaccinated children have far worse health, then the pro vaccine will try to find every reason possible to invalidate the study, because it won't show what they want. And if they believe that vaccines are safe and that this study will show what they believe, which is that unvaccinated children are NOT as healthy, then they should be behind this study.

 

This study should never have been funded by us, but the funding was withdrawn after the Lead Investigator was fired from his university after a spurious anonymous complaint lodged, not long after the funding for this study was approved.

 

The complaint was laughable, but just what i’d expect from the dirty tricks brigade (though I was surprised that they such tactics were employed...), and the LI was eagerly snapped up by another university, who are happy to run with this study.  The team reassembled and is committed.

 

There is no point in US looking at the machinations of the dirty tricks, because that just wastes time in the spirit of slap, when time ticks on, and there is only two years left for the study process to be completed.

 

As many here know, the various pharma funded pseudo parents groups are right behind the current push by Offit et al, in going to legislatures in all American states to have all exemptions for vaccinations removed except medical exemptions.

 

Therefore the time to do this study is now.

 

This is the best chance for American parents to be part of a study which looks at information which goes to the heart of your right to have full information, to make well reasoned choices as to whether or not you will chose to vaccinate your children.  Parents all around the world are contributing and watching, because this is important to them as well.

 

Will you please join me, in donating to a study which goes to the heart of every parents wish to make the right choices to do the very best for their child?



Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 12:28 PM 12-05-2012

I don't know why it formatted like that.  Maybe because I drafted it in an email and copied and pasted it to here...  Sorry about the large print...


Taximom5's Avatar Taximom5 02:08 PM 12-05-2012

Large print is good when reading on a tiny cell phone!


Mirzam's Avatar Mirzam 02:37 PM 12-05-2012

Welcome back Momtezuma, it is sooooooo good to see you back. joy.gif


Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 03:03 PM 12-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

Welcome back Momtezuma, it is sooooooo good to see you back. joy.gif

 

Thank you Mirzam.

 

:)


midstreammama's Avatar midstreammama 07:17 PM 12-05-2012

I also did a little happy dance when I saw your username..although I usually am a lurking reader and not a poster. :-)
 


Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 07:25 PM 12-05-2012

spitdrink.gifLOL... most people won't have a clue who I am which is nice. 


Chicharronita's Avatar Chicharronita 09:10 PM 12-05-2012

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that you were back! Yay!!!!

 


Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 09:15 PM 12-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post

I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw that you were back! Yay!!!!

 

 

LOL... well don't believe your eyes, because I'm here to ask people here to contribute to something positive, to move real science and real discussion forward. 

 

I'm now a manx cat

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)

not prepared to chase the tails of professionally employed time wasters and rabble rousers, posing as parents

 

I'm here on this thread, because people who know me, are here, and the message must be got out.

 

Let's get the real issues moving, and create real science not hot air, huh?


Mirzam's Avatar Mirzam 09:21 PM 12-05-2012

MT, thanks for the spoiler. I need to remember that every so often!


Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 09:28 PM 12-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

MT, thanks for the spoiler. I need to remember that every so often!

 

well, you're faster than I am.  It took me 6 years to figure out that blowin in the wind wasn't a song.


emma1325's Avatar emma1325 09:36 PM 12-05-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post

Vaccinated versus unvaccinated children.
 
I have seen the protocols and the questionnaire, and have minor reservations which I’ve asked the researchers about, but it’s the best study I’ve seen, statistically sound (according to a stats guru I know who analysed it) and is a start in a scientific direction. This study is not an internet flot questionnaire posing as an official study. This is the real deal.
 
There is a blog about this study here: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/12/03/official-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-study-finally-being-done-please-read-and-contribute-suzanne-humphries-md/
 
Another article about it here:
http://www.ageofautism.com/2012/11/unvaccinated-children-and-autism-study-funding-needed-right-now.html
 
You can donate here. https://ssl.charityweb.net/genrescue/index.htm?DonorIntent=Vaccinated+Unvaccinated+Study
 
So let’s discuss this study and what we as parents have a right to know.
In the past, many here have discussed the question: “Is the short and long term health of unvaccinated children WORSE than vaccinated children, or vice versa?”
 
This is also a question recently asked in congress. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiQX0dRejz8
 
Which has lead this man to label these congressmen as anti-vaccine, and say this.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevensalzberg/2012/12/03/congress-holds-an-anti-vaccination-hearing/
 
 

 


 
Salzburg then makes the statement that such studies have already been done.
 
What people reading his words don’t realise is that a typical example of such a study is children vaccinated with everything EXCEPT MMR compared with children vaccinated with everything AS WELL AS MMR. That’s what they call a vaccinated unvaccinated study.
 
That is not a vaccinated non-vaccinated study in my opinion.
 
This study will look at never vaccinated children, partially vaccinated children and fully vaccinated children between the ages of 6 and 15 years of age. the study group is already selected and read to go.
 
The researchers intend for this study to be published in mainstream peer reviewed medical journals.
 
 
Such a study holds “risks” for both sides of the arguments.
 
1) If it shows that vaccinated children have far better health, then the pro vaccine will hail is as the breakthrough (which they refused to fund and actively opposed) .... a waste of money, but “we told you so”. That's something we will have to wear if it happens, but I don't believe that will be the case.
 
2) If it showed that vaccinated children have far worse health, then the pro vaccine will try to find every reason possible to invalidate the study, because it won't show what they want. And if they believe that vaccines are safe and that this study will show what they believe, which is that unvaccinated children are NOT as healthy, then they should be behind this study.
 
This study should never have been funded by us, but the funding was withdrawn after the Lead Investigator was fired from his university after a spurious anonymous complaint lodged, not long after the funding for this study was approved.
 
The complaint was laughable, but just what i’d expect from the dirty tricks brigade (though I was surprised that they such tactics were employed...), and the LI was eagerly snapped up by another university, who are happy to run with this study.  The team reassembled and is committed.
 
There is no point in US looking at the machinations of the dirty tricks, because that just wastes time in the spirit of slap, when time ticks on, and there is only two years left for the study process to be completed.
 
As many here know, the various pharma funded pseudo parents groups are right behind the current push by Offit et al, in going to legislatures in all American states to have all exemptions for vaccinations removed except medical exemptions.
 
Therefore the time to do this study is now.
 
This is the best chance for American parents to be part of a study which looks at information which goes to the heart of your right to have full information, to make well reasoned choices as to whether or not you will chose to vaccinate your children.  Parents all around the world are contributing and watching, because this is important to them as well.
 
Will you please join me, in donating to a study which goes to the heart of every parents wish to make the right choices to do the very best for their child?


I met the lead scientist involved!! Unless I'm mistaken, he attended a couple of meetings I organized for vaccine rights in Mississippi. He seemed absolutely brilliant to me (gorgeous British accent, lol) and told me of a study he planned to do sometime in the future using vaccinated and non-vaccinated homeschooled children.

Do you know if the study is still focusing on homeschooling families?
Momtezuma Tuatara's Avatar Momtezuma Tuatara 10:01 PM 12-05-2012

It is

 

Vaccination Status and Health Outcomes among Homeschool Children

 

Objectives and Specific Aims The purpose of this cross-sectional study is to evaluate the health outcomes of the routine childhood vaccination program. To this end, an anonymous online survey will be carried out on biological mothers of homeschool children, regarding their children’s vaccination history and physician-diagnosed illnesses. The specific aims are:

1. To test the hypothesis that there are no significant differences in prevalence rates of selected chronic illnesses (ADHD, allergy, asthma, autism, type 1 diabetes, learning disability, and seizures) between vaccinated and unvaccinated homeschool children ages 6-12 years, after controlling for potential confounding factors; and

2. To determine what factor or combination of factors, including vaccination history, is most strongly associated with the selected conditions.

The study preliminary research has shown that about 15% of homeschool children are unvaccinated.

Since there are 1-2 million such children in the U.S., homeschoolers are an ideal group for this study. Families will be contacted through homeschool organizations via a partnership established between the investigators at Jackson State University and the National Home Education Research Institute (NHERI), Salem, Oregon. NHERI will contact and inform homeschool organizations nationwide about the study.

The leaders of these organizations will in turn encourage their members to participate in the study by accessing a designated website. Mothers will be asked to use their children’s vaccination records and to record physician-diagnosed illnesses. The accumulated data will be checked for accuracy and completeness and analyzed using SAS (SAS Institute, Cary, NC, version 9.2).

The study has been approved by the Institutional Review Board of Jackson State University.


prosciencemum's Avatar prosciencemum 03:32 AM 12-06-2012

If it's genuinely a plan to do an unbiased study of this then I welcome it - as I do with all continuing checks of vaccine safety which are ongoing. I do have concerns that it'll be self reported from the mothers (so what's to stop either mothers of vaccinated or unvaccinated children with an agenda to lie about their children's health?). Sounds like they are planning to check accuracy though, so maybe that's too skeptical of me.

 

If this does find no difference in the health of vaccinated an unvaccinated children (excepting the VPDs they have of course), which all prior evidence which exists suggests it will (if it's unbiased) will the non-vaxers and places like NVIC really accept that it's showing that vaccines in general do more good than harm? 


chickabiddy's Avatar chickabiddy 05:27 AM 12-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by emma1325 View Post
Do you know if the study is still focusing on homeschooling families?

 

The link clearly states that it does, which means that it is already not a random sampling.


Mirzam's Avatar Mirzam 06:41 AM 12-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

MT, thanks for the spoiler. I need to remember that every so often!

 

well, you're faster than I am.  It took me 6 years to figure out that blowin in the wind wasn't a song.

It is way more obvious now than it was six years ago, but it is getting a tougher to pull the wool, so they have thrown a ton of $$$$ behind it.

 

#RunningScared


chickabiddy's Avatar chickabiddy 06:57 AM 12-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momtezuma Tuatara View Post

not prepared to chase the tails of professionally employed time wasters and rabble rousers, posing as parents

 

Who on this forum do you think is not a parent?


Rrrrrachel's Avatar Rrrrrachel 07:49 AM 12-06-2012
I find the idea that pharm companies are paying people to troll mdc preposterous. I believe the accusation is also a uav.
Rrrrrachel's Avatar Rrrrrachel 07:54 AM 12-06-2012
Also I'm interested in what people think of the vaxxed/unvaxxed study that was done in Germany.
Marnica's Avatar Marnica 09:33 AM 12-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

Welcome back Momtezuma, it is sooooooo good to see you back. joy.gif

I agree!!! its been a long time :)


nicolebeth's Avatar nicolebeth 09:40 AM 12-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by midstreammama View Post

I also did a little happy dance when I saw your username..although I usually am a lurking reader and not a poster. :-)
 

 

Not much of a dancer, but other than that, same here. :-)


Dakotacakes's Avatar Dakotacakes 09:55 AM 12-06-2012

I looked at the article about the study.  I wish it provided the names of the actual researchers at Jackson State University (the university is not conducting it nor funding it they just approved the human subject protocol).  But perhaps it isn't far enough along or they don't want to deal with the press.

 

I am however, concerned about how this is being funded.  It is being funded by generation rescue  and through individual private donations to generation rescue.  This screams conflict of interest.  this studies results when it finds that vaccinated children have ill health compared to unvaccinated it will not be taken seriously by anyone but those who believe that vaccines are bad (for lack of a more sophesticated term).  By the same reasoning, if Merck or Pfizer funded a study that showed vaccines caused better health in general...How seriously would you take that research? 


chickabiddy's Avatar chickabiddy 10:01 AM 12-06-2012

I am concerned that it is limited to homeschoolers.  It is not a secret that some people, both vaxers and non, choose homeschooling specifically because they do not want a "label" (diagnosis) for their child.  I suspect that certain conditions will be underreported and underrepresented.  I do not have a theory as to HOW it will sway the results, but I do not believe the results will be accurate.  And I write this having no idea what the results will be, so personal bias can't be a factor.


Chicharronita's Avatar Chicharronita 11:59 AM 12-06-2012

I don't think it's strictly limited to homeschoolers. It will just be easier to find unvaccinated children through homeschooling organizations and their grapevines. I wouldn't mind participating even though my dd goes to a public school. 

 

It sure would be nice for Congress to help fund it, since supposedly it cares about the autism epidemic. 


Rrrrrachel's Avatar Rrrrrachel 12:21 PM 12-06-2012
It doesn't matter if its strictly limited to homeschoolers if its focused on homeschoolers.
Chicharronita's Avatar Chicharronita 12:55 PM 12-06-2012

How else are they going to easily find unvaccinated children? Seeing as Merck & co. probably won't pony up any $$, since they don't make very much money and all. wink1.gif


Rrrrrachel's Avatar Rrrrrachel 01:04 PM 12-06-2012
How about something like vaccine safety datalink? I guess I'm more concerned with the studies methodology being legitimate than how easy it is for them.
prosciencemum's Avatar prosciencemum 01:14 PM 12-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post

How else are they going to easily find unvaccinated children? Seeing as Merck & co. probably won't pony up any $$, since they don't make very much money and all. wink1.gif

 

How about targeting a school district with a high rate of exemptions. Portland, OR springs to mind (or am I making that up?). 

 

That study I shared in a thread recently which was about sources of information about vaccines and how it differs for those who choose not to vaccinate versus those who do seemed to find enough unvaccinated children to include....


chickabiddy's Avatar chickabiddy 01:27 PM 12-06-2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicharronita View Post

I don't think it's strictly limited to homeschoolers.

 

Did you read any of the article that was linked? http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2012/12/03/official-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-study-finally-being-done-please-read-and-contribute-suzanne-humphries-md/

 

 

Quote:
The study is called, “Vaccination Status and Health Outcomes among Homeschool Children.”

Chicharronita's Avatar Chicharronita 01:33 PM 12-06-2012

bawling.gif

 

Well there goes my wish to directly participate. I'll just send some money then.


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