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#1 of 53 Old 12-15-2012, 04:04 AM - Thread Starter
 
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According to the American Medical Association, definite procedures have been established to govern medical office visits in relation to the process of obtaining informed consent from patients.  We are doing a study of people who are currently taking or have recently taken a prescribed medication to gather information about physician-patient communication and the extent of  any informed consent given by the you, the patient, regarding your treatment and any medications you were prescribed.
 

http://informedconsentstudy.org/

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#2 of 53 Old 12-15-2012, 06:54 AM
 
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This non-scientific survey seems like it's going to be subject to some strong bias.  Betsy Poulin, the person who is sponsoring the survey, also owns Children's Behavior Problems:  Your Guide to Drug-Free Solutions and GetOffMeds.com.  

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#3 of 53 Old 12-15-2012, 09:20 AM
 
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Thanks for the link, emmy. 

 

This is the 3rd study posted by in 3 weeks by a non-vaxxer that has been attacked or questioned  before the study was even done!  Isn't it the content of the study that is important, which we do not have yet?

 

 

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#4 of 53 Old 12-15-2012, 09:50 AM
 
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I'm not sure what you mean by "the content of the study," but it's not necessary to wait to see what the results of a study are to know that the methodology is seriously flawed.  When the methodology is flawed it undermines the results, regardless of what they are.

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#5 of 53 Old 12-15-2012, 11:14 AM
 
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Isn't it more "fair" to question the study before the results are out?  We are not trying to cherry-pick studies based on whether we like the results or not: we are stating up-front that we see serious flaws in the methodology, such as that this is a self-selected population.


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#6 of 53 Old 12-15-2012, 11:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by rnra View Post

This non-scientific survey seems like it's going to be subject to some strong bias.  Betsy Poulin, the person who is sponsoring the survey, also owns Children's Behavior Problems:  Your Guide to Drug-Free Solutions and GetOffMeds.com.  

Is it not preferable for children to be drug-free and for those that are not, to help them get off meds? Or would you prefer a world of drugged up kids?

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#7 of 53 Old 12-15-2012, 11:39 AM
 
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Flaws of study : self-selected population. What else?
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#8 of 53 Old 12-15-2012, 12:12 PM
 
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Is it not preferable for children to be drug-free and for those that are not, to help them get off meds? Or would you prefer a world of drugged up kids?

Lol.

 

I actually read rnra's post and thought "Now I am more likely to do the survey!" 

 

While some pharmaceutical use is warranted and I try not to judge someone when I have not walked in their shoes,  I do think pharmaceuticals are overused in our culture.  Period.

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#9 of 53 Old 12-15-2012, 12:20 PM
 
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Lol.

I actually read rnra's post and thought "Now I am more likely to do the survey!" 

While some pharmaceutical use is warranted and I try not to judge someone when I have not walked in their shoes,  I do think pharmaceuticals are overused in our culture.  Period.

Many times, when I go to a doctor to get information, I walk out with a prescription. Almost never do I get the prescription filled. I have told doctors that I merely want info, and they keep writing. I agree. Drugs are being overused.

Regarding the self-selected population, drugs are tested on volunteers.
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#10 of 53 Old 12-15-2012, 12:45 PM
 
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The author of the survey is using convenience, non-probability sampling. (As Pek64 stated, that's also usually the modus operendus of clinical researchers). So long as she is up front about her methodology in presenting her results to the public, we'll see that the generalizibility of the results is limited. Results from non-probability sampling can be useful in forming hypotheses and hopefully identifying how and where to direct future, more strongly designed research efforts. In short, the survey isn't completely useless.

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#11 of 53 Old 12-15-2012, 12:59 PM
 
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It's not exactly the case that that's how clinical trials are done. I see how you would get that impression from the idea that they're volunteers, though.
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#12 of 53 Old 12-15-2012, 03:47 PM
 
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Flaws of study : self-selected population. What else?

 

That's not enough?

 

There's no information about sample size, controls, or anything else.

 

If I enter that both myself and my child are taking medication (not necessarily true), there's no way to differentiate in further questioning whether the results apply to me or to my child.  I also cannot specify what kind of doctor each of us has seen, since there is only one entry allowed (I see several different doctors).

 

It allowed me to submit answers twice.

 

All "science" is not created equal.


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#13 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 09:36 AM
 
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Thanks for the link, emmy. 

 

This is the 3rd study posted by in 3 weeks by a non-vaxxer that has been attacked or questioned  before the study was even done!  Isn't it the content of the study that is important, which we do not have yet?

 

 

"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”

 Arthur Conan Doyle

 The time of the study design is the time to question it's quality.  Why would someone even want to waste their time doing a poorly-designed study?  I work in market research, and you would be shocked at how even a small difference in bias will skew results of a study.  The mere fact that this study is sponsored by a group with a clear agenda and has a self-selected sample automatically negates the findings for me, no matter what they are. 

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#14 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 09:37 AM
 
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Lol.

 

I actually read rnra's post and thought "Now I am more likely to do the survey!" 

 

While some pharmaceutical use is warranted and I try not to judge someone when I have not walked in their shoes,  I do think pharmaceuticals are overused in our culture.  Period.

 

Why do you think this?  What evidence do you have, other than a feeling that it shouldn't be that way?  What specific types of medications for what specific types of health problems do you think are overused? 

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#15 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 12:07 PM
 
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 The time of the study design is the time to question it's quality.  Why would someone even want to waste their time doing a poorly-designed study?  I work in market research, and you would be shocked at how even a small difference in bias will skew results of a study.  The mere fact that this study is sponsored by a group with a clear agenda and has a self-selected sample automatically negates the findings for me, no matter what they are. 

That is precisely why I view pharma funded studies with skepticism. Thank you stating my views so clearly.
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#16 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 12:09 PM
 
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Why do you think this?  What evidence do you have, other than a feeling that it shouldn't be that way?  What specific types of medications for what specific types of health problems do you think are overused? 

However did mankind survive before the creation of pharmaceuticals?
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#17 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 12:10 PM
 
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However did mankind survive before the creation of pharmaceuticals?

 

Lots didn't.


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#18 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 12:21 PM
 
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Lots didn't.

You're talking individuals. I'm talking collectively.
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#19 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 12:30 PM
 
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Collectively, the birth rate was much higher.  Humanity survived because women wore themselves out having babies.


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#20 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 12:52 PM
 
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Collectively, the birth rate was much higher.  Humanity survived because women wore themselves out having babies.

Mothers of large families would probably object to the "wore themselves out" .
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#21 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 12:55 PM
 
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History can be just as offensive as science, I guess.


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#22 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 01:11 PM
 
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History can be just as offensive as science, I guess.

Some women may not feel worn out by having several children. You might. And we have left the topic.
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#23 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 01:43 PM
 
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I can't believe that question was even asked. The birthdate was much higher, life expectancy was MUCH lower. Women had so many babies to improve the odds at least a couple survived to adult hood. I mean seriously. What kind of question is that?
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#24 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 01:55 PM
 
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I can't believe that question was even asked. The birthdate was much higher, life expectancy was MUCH lower. Women had so many babies to improve the odds at least a couple survived to adult hood. I mean seriously. What kind of question is that?

I thought the reason they had multiple children was they didn't use birth control methods, but whatever. My point is, some women, in the current time, choose to have several children.

Besides vaccines and medications, what else has improved life expectancy?
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#25 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 02:00 PM
 
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A
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I can't believe that question was even asked. The birthdate was much higher, life expectancy was MUCH lower. Women had so many babies to improve the odds at least a couple survived to adult hood. I mean seriously. What kind of question is that?
And I can't believe you're implying that all of our progress is due to drugs!
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That is precisely why I view pharma funded studies with skepticism. Thank you stating my views so clearly.

 

I don't think I actually stated your views at all.  Pharmaceutical companies design blinded studies with randomly-selected participants, which eliminates much of the bias.  See, the problem isn't that the organization is biased (most studies of any kind have a sponsor that has a vested interest in the results), it's that the study itself is biased.  The sample isn't randomized, the sample is self-selected, and the agenda is known to the respondents.  If a pharma study has the same issues,  you'd do well to view it with skepticism.  But I don't think that really describes your concerns. 

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#27 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 02:25 PM
 
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A
And I can't believe you're implying that all of our progress is due to drugs!

I'm not.
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I thought the reason they had multiple children was they didn't use birth control methods, but whatever. My point is, some women, in the current time, choose to have several children.
Besides vaccines and medications, what else has improved life expectancy?

Well sure, birth control had something to do with it, too.

What else has improved life expectancy? Well, better nutrition. Better working conditions. Seat belts. Better law enforcement. All kinds of things. Advances in medical technology play a huge role, though. Arguably none bigger than vaccination.
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#28 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 03:45 PM
 
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Why do you think this?  What evidence do you have, other than a feeling that it shouldn't be that way?  What specific types of medications for what specific types of health problems do you think are overused? 

Ritalin and other drugs to treat ADHD are often over used, IMHO:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/284466.stm

 

Antibiotics are another:

http://www.cdc.gov/features/antibioticresistance/

 

And again…I understand that sometimes these drugs are very warranted…I also know sometimes they are over and misused.

 

The "feeling" word bolded above is incorrect.  My belief that pharmaceuticals are often overused have come primarily through reading (largely on mainstream sites).  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#29 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 04:00 PM
 
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Besides vaccines and medications, what else has improved life expectancy?

Um, handwashing! Thank you, Sommelweiss! bow.gif And other forms of sanitation, of course.
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#30 of 53 Old 12-16-2012, 04:02 PM
 
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Ritalin and other drugs to treat ADHD are often over used, IMHO:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/284466.stm

 

Antibiotics are another:

http://www.cdc.gov/features/antibioticresistance/

 

And again…I understand that sometimes these drugs are very warranted…I also know sometimes they are over and misused.

 

The "feeling" word bolded above is incorrect.  My belief that pharmaceuticals are often overused have come primarily through reading (largely on mainstream sites).  

 

You mean the drugs are overused in the sense that they are given due to a misdiagnosis?  Or do you think they shouldn't be used even when correctly indicated?

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