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#31 of 48 Old 01-14-2013, 11:19 AM
 
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Yet by the standards we use to classify drugs in pregnancy both would be class c.
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#32 of 48 Old 01-14-2013, 11:56 AM
 
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Yet by the standards we use to classify drugs in pregnancy both would be class c.

well sort of - at least the part about not enough studies in pregnant women. Category C indicates that there have been adverse effects noted on the fetus in animal reproduction studies as well but of course they are not doing animal studies with RRL. Ill still take my chances with certain herbals that have been used for thousands of years winky.gif

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#33 of 48 Old 01-14-2013, 12:03 PM
 
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OP, there are excellent posts here. I personally do not allow to be vaccinated in pregnancy with anything. If you are concerned about it, get Tdap after birth. I'm not big on vaccines, I select very few, but pertussis in particular has a poor track record. I would have even gotten the Tdap if it WAS time for a tetanus booster, but it isn't. It hasn't been 10 years yet and also, I run titers and last time it lasted significantly longer than 10 years. My doctor back home in the EU did advise against tetanus boosters as long as your titers are high as it leads to a significantly increased risk of bad side effects.

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#34 of 48 Old 01-14-2013, 12:30 PM
 
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What's the poor track record for pertussis?

Being vaccinated after delivery does not offer the same benefits as vaccination during third trimester.
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#35 of 48 Old 01-14-2013, 12:33 PM
 
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well sort of - at least the part about not enough studies in pregnant women. Category C indicates that there have been adverse effects noted on the fetus in animal reproduction studies as well but of course they are not doing animal studies with RRL. Ill still take my chances with certain herbals that have been used for thousands of years winky.gif

No, not sort of. Class c includes drugs for which studies are not available, not just studies that animal studies have showed harm for.

I'm just trying to put the class c thing in perspective. I used rrl during pregnancy and I believe it's safe, too. The picture for nettles and other remedies used during pregnancy aren't as clear, btw.
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#36 of 48 Old 01-14-2013, 12:45 PM
 
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How many pregnant women use red raspberry leaf tea? Or nettles? Or epo? Or cohosh? Where are the controlled studies for those?

It's really getting to the point that its neither here nor there, but class c drugs are used all the time in pregnancy. The caution is that you should consider if the benefit outweighs any POTENTIAL risk. Not that they shouldn't be used or that there is a known risk.

 

The clear difference being that women generally are not being coerced into taking those supplements by medical providers.

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#37 of 48 Old 01-14-2013, 12:49 PM
 
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I don't think that's the case with tdap, either.
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#38 of 48 Old 01-14-2013, 01:05 PM
 
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No, not sort of. Class c includes drugs for which studies are not available, not just studies that animal studies have showed harm for.

I'm just trying to put the class c thing in perspective. I used rrl during pregnancy and I believe it's safe, too. The picture for nettles and other remedies used during pregnancy aren't as clear, btw.

I know what Class C means thanks... I said sort of because you did not mention animal studies so yeah sort of and I think I specifically said the part about no studies in pregnant women. 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#39 of 48 Old 01-14-2013, 01:52 PM
 
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I don't understand. No animal studies and no people studies makes it a class c. What did I leave out that makes them only sort of class c?
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#40 of 48 Old 01-15-2013, 08:31 AM
 
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I don't understand. No animal studies and no people studies makes it a class c. What did I leave out that makes them only sort of class c?

Not sure how much clearer I can be. Ok Ill try. 

 

you said upthread: Tdap is classified as class c because there havent been controlled trials with pregnant women.

 

yes this is true - but what you did not mention (hence why I said sort of)  is that class c also means that there have been animal studies that have found harm to the fetus.  So what you just said "no animal studies and no people studies make it class c is incorrect." 

 

 

I think you are getting hung up on my use of "sort of."  My point was that you only mentioned half of what makes a class c drug class c, not that what you said was wrong or only partly true. 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#41 of 48 Old 01-15-2013, 01:06 PM
 
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But that's not true. It may be that there are animal studies tht how harm to the fetus, or it may be that no data from animal studies are available. Both would qualify as class c.
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#42 of 48 Old 01-15-2013, 01:26 PM
 
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But that's not true. It may be that there are animal studies tht how harm to the fetus, or it may be that no data from animal studies are available. Both would qualify as class c.

Ok well I guess I'm misinterpreting the word AND to mean including and differing significantly from the word OR meaning one or the other. 

 

 

 

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Animal reproduction studies have shown an adverse effect on the fetus and there are no adequate and well-controlled studies in humans, but potential benefits may warrant use of the drug in pregnant women despite potential risks.

If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#43 of 48 Old 01-15-2013, 02:39 PM
 
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From safe fetus

"Either studies in animals have revealed adverse effects on the fetus (teratogenic or embryocidal or other) and there are no controlled studies in women, or studies in women and animals are not available. Drugs should be given only if the potential benefit justifies the potential risk to the fetus."

From the apa.

"Risk can not be ruled out- Adequate, well-controlled human studies are lacking, and animal studies have shown a risk to the fetus or are lacking as well.
There is a chance of fetal harm if the drug is administered during pregnancy; but the potential benefits may outweigh the potential risk."

From womenshealth.gov

"In humans, there are no good studies. In animals, pregnant animals treated with the medicine had some babies with problems. However, sometimes the medicine may still help the human mothers and babies more than it might harm.

Or

No animal studies have been done, and there are no good studies in pregnant women."
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#44 of 48 Old 01-16-2013, 06:50 AM
 
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From safe fetus

"Either studies in animals have revealed adverse effects on the fetus (teratogenic or embryocidal or other) and there are no controlled studies in women, or studies in women and animals are not available. Drugs should be given only if the potential benefit justifies the potential risk to the fetus."

From the apa.

"Risk can not be ruled out- Adequate, well-controlled human studies are lacking, and animal studies have shown a risk to the fetus or are lacking as well.
There is a chance of fetal harm if the drug is administered during pregnancy; but the potential benefits may outweigh the potential risk."

From womenshealth.gov

"In humans, there are no good studies. In animals, pregnant animals treated with the medicine had some babies with problems. However, sometimes the medicine may still help the human mothers and babies more than it might harm.

Or

No animal studies have been done, and there are no good studies in pregnant women."
 

Interesting how different sites have slightly different write ups. The nuances make it read differently to me. 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#45 of 48 Old 01-16-2013, 06:56 AM
 
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I think of cat C as a catchall for "we don't have a clue, really". That said, there may be smaller studies on some Cat C drugs that haven't made their way to the point of changing the official recommendations. When I was pregnant I had a terrible cough at one point and researched dextromethorphan (also cat C) enough to find a fairly sizeable study showing no problems (I was in the second trimester, so I can't recollect what it said about the first trimester), so I felt okay about taking it. 

 

They are eventually going to revise the pregnancy categories to be more descriptive. 

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#46 of 48 Old 01-16-2013, 07:52 AM
 
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That's why I would only agree to a category C medication if absolutely necessary and not without further research first. Unfortunately, professionals don't know much about it - I always had to look it up myself, especially later on during lactation. I was told a gazillion times by obgyns to wean as there is nothing safe to take while breastfeeding (during mastitis and kidney infection....). When I had hyperemesis I wanted Zofran but they said nope and prescribed me promethazine. I explained how I wasn't comfy with it as I am breastfeeding. Nada. So I just rode it out being sick as a dog for 32 weeks.

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#47 of 48 Old 01-16-2013, 08:23 AM
 
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Omg yes, the only thing worse than trying to figure out what's safe during pregnancy is trying to figure out what's safe during lactation!!
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#48 of 48 Old 01-16-2013, 11:07 AM
 
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Omg yes, the only thing worse than trying to figure out what's safe during pregnancy is trying to figure out what's safe during lactation!!

Agreed. I find Hale's book very helpful in trying to figure out what's ok to take. Here is a resource for those seeking info on meds in both pregnancy and lactation. 

 

http://www.infantrisk.com/


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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