Meningitis vaccine paralyzes 40 children in Chad? - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 05:43 AM
 
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Why out of 500? Way more than that have received the vaccine.

I guess you didn't read the article then.

 

Some questions raised in the piece:

 

 

 

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Why were 500 children vaccinated in a region that has only one doctor, who was unable to provide advice or treatment for adverse events until one week later? Why did the manufacturer of MenAfriVac specifically advise that the product should be stored and transported at much lower temperatures than The Meningitis Project claimed? Why were the parents of these vaccine-injured children paid hush money?

From the La Voix article provided by vactruth:

 

 

 

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Environs 500 gamins ont reçu la substance qui permet, par inoculation de les immuniser de l'inflammation des meninges ce jour la. Chose curieuse, juste apres avoir reçu le vaccin, 40 des 500 enfants vaccinés tombent malades, hallucinent, font une crise convulsive et finessent par parayses.

 

 


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#32 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 06:17 AM
 
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I know vactruth saying out of 500, I just don't see why that should be the group under consideration vs all menafrivac recipients.

The act that the alleged reactions are limited to one remote village to me means this is NOT wide spread.
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#33 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 06:28 AM
 
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I know they are saying out of 500, I just don't see why that should be the group under consideration vs all menafrivac recipients.


If the rate of adverse events is usually much lower, then in the interest of figuring out what happened to these 40 kids, it's totally relevant to look at the group that was vaccinated that day and see what was going on.  Was it a specific lot?  Was it stored improperly?  What happened?

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#34 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 06:34 AM
 
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I agree on that front. I just don't see how saying 40 kids out of 500 makes it widespread.
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#35 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 06:49 AM
 
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I agree on that front. I just don't see how saying 40 kids out of 500 makes it widespread.


Until/unless they can figure out what happened, it can be assumed that it could happen again, possibly easily.  If the methods of reporting are somewhat sketchy, it's possible it has happened before.  So while the word "widespread" might not be the most appropriate, I think there are good reasons for concern.

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#36 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 06:59 AM
 
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Sure.  IF it happened and IF it was caused by the vaccine.  It seems unlikely that IF it happened it was caused by the vaccine, and in rural africa there are certainly lots of other candidates.

 

Lizditz has a good handle on some of the concerns brought up (cold chain, proximity of symptoms to vaccine administration, type of symptoms, etc)

 

http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2013/01/is-it-true-that-a-meningitis-vaccine-paralyzed-many-children-in-chad.html

 

Over 100 MILLION menafrivac vaccines have been administered.  Even IF these events are exactly as reported by vac truth and they were caused by the vaccine, I don't think 40/100 million is widespread by any stretch of the imagination.

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#37 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 07:40 AM
 
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Over 100 MILLION menafrivac vaccines have been administered.  Even IF these events are exactly as reported by vac truth and they were caused by the vaccine, I don't think 40/100 million is widespread by any stretch of the imagination.

There is no way you can substantiate that there have only been 40 adverse reactions to the one million doses administered. You have no clue how many adverse events have occurred. Something obviously went horribly wrong with the administration of this vaccine with this group of children that 40 out of 500 were injured.


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#38 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 07:46 AM
 
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I'm only speaking to this incident.

 

 

I agree that IF these injuries happened as reported and IF they were caused by the vaccine something went terribly wrong.

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#39 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 08:01 AM
 
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I'm only speaking to this incident.

 

 

I agree that IF these injuries happened as reported and IF they were caused by the vaccine something went terribly wrong.

That's not how I read it, This is what you wrote:

 

 

 

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I don't think 40/100 million is widespread by any stretch of the imagination.

You do not know and cannot know how many adverse event have occurred with this vaccine, so you cannot claim 40 adverse events out of 100 million doses administered, and blow it off as not widespread.


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#40 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 09:33 AM
 
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You're quite right that its irrelevant if indeed these 40 cases are real and a vaccine reaction, but I still wanted to find out (data and all that).

In Jan-march 2012 there were 88 deaths in Chad from meningitus.
http://www.afro.who.int/en/clusters-a-programmes/dpc/epidemic-a-pandemic-alert-and-response/outbreak-news/3600-chad-meningitis-outbreak-situation-as-of-25-march-2012.html

40 in one week compared to 88 in three months. Divide the 88 by 12, the number of weeks in that 3month period, is 7.3.

So 40 compared to 7.3. How does that look?
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#41 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 09:36 AM
 
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I'm only speaking to this incident.


I agree that IF these injuries happened as reported and IF they were caused by the vaccine something went terribly wrong.


If it didn't happen, then who was the prime minister visiting?

There's no possibility of conspiracy on the vaccine side, but the others are creating news out of context?
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#42 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 10:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I'm only speaking to this incident.


I agree that IF these injuries happened as reported and IF they were caused by the vaccine something went terribly wrong.

No, you actually mentioned 100 million rather than "this incident", which was 500 who were vaccinated at that time, and at least 40 are paralyzed. Do you understand the ratio of that? It's widespread; its not even up for debate - the statitical numbers for this incident are right there.
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#43 of 95 Old 01-15-2013, 07:32 PM
 
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In this incident 40 children have become ill for reasons unknown. Probably. Even if these are related to the vaccine, which is in no way certain and even seems unlikely, that's 40 people out of a hundred million or so doses. To me, that does not point to a widespread issue with the menafrivac vaccine. If there's evidence of a more widespread issue lets hear it, but based on this incident, even interpreting events generously to favor vactruths rather editorial take on them, it doesn't seem like this issue is widespread.

IF these issues were caused by the vaccine there is certainly something very seriously wrong with the batch/lot/whatever this village received, which is what the ratio is relevant to.

I'm sort of over arguing about semantics, now. If you disagree with me please feel free to continue insisting that an incident limited to a remote village in rural Africa can accurately be described as widespread. Don't let me stop you.
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#44 of 95 Old 01-16-2013, 06:47 AM
 
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I'm amazed by the lack of concern that healthy children are now paralyzed, and certain facts point to the vaccine they were given. There is no way a reasonable discussion can ever be had if one side maintains such an unyielding postion.
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#45 of 95 Old 01-16-2013, 07:31 AM
 
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Who isn't concerned? What facts point to the vaccine?
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#46 of 95 Old 01-16-2013, 07:42 AM
 
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Who isn't concerned? What facts point to the vaccine?

banghead.gif oh please. Forty plus kids out of 500 who recieved this vaccine vomited, complained of headaches and then collapsed to the floor with uncontrollable convulsions while saliva came out of their mouths and then became paralyzed. And in your opinion that doesn't point to the vaccine????????

 

From your constant stumping for the vaccine industry, I would have to say its you who isn't concerned. They are somebody's children, brothers sisters, cousins, friends......


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#47 of 95 Old 01-16-2013, 08:11 AM
 
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Who isn't concerned? What facts point to the vaccine?


What facts point to it not being the vaccine?  Were there any cases in unvaccinated individuals?  Yes, strictly speaking it could have been something else, or it could have been something related to the vaccinations that wasn't the vaccine exactly (like a problem with the syringes, or alcohol wipes, or whatever), but the information available indicates that it was something related to the vaccinations that happened that day, so dismissing the vaccine as a possible culprit seems a bit weird. 

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#48 of 95 Old 01-16-2013, 08:16 AM
 
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I'm concerned. But I'm also skeptical that the evidence is as clear cut as some of you think and I think the anti-vaccine website reporting this are over hyping/over stating how strong links are to the vaccine.

I'm also concerned by the hundreds of cases of meningitis in this area of the world and think efforts to combat that with a specially designed vaccine deserve credit.

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#49 of 95 Old 01-16-2013, 08:19 AM
 
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What facts point to it not being the vaccine?  Were there any cases in unvaccinated individuals?  Yes, strictly speaking it could have been something else, or it could have been something related to the vaccinations that wasn't the vaccine exactly (like a problem with the syringes, or alcohol wipes, or whatever), but the information available indicates that it was something related to the vaccinations that happened that day, so dismissing the vaccine as a possible culprit seems a bit weird. 

Im not dismissing it, I just don't see conclusive evidence, especially when we don't have even remotely close to the whole story. For all we know they drank contaminated water. I have no idea if only vaccinated people fell ill, do you?

I have said over and over that I am very concerned about vaccine injuries.
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#50 of 95 Old 01-16-2013, 11:35 AM
 
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Im not dismissing it, I just don't see conclusive evidence, especially when we don't have even remotely close to the whole story. For all we know they drank contaminated water. I have no idea if only vaccinated people fell ill, do you?

I have said over and over that I am very concerned about vaccine injuries.

It seems you are more concerned with trying to get everyone to believe there are no vaccine injuries, than concern over vaccine injuries.
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#51 of 95 Old 01-16-2013, 12:19 PM
 
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I have said over and over on many different threads ever since I started posting here tht vaccine injuries DO happen. They can be serious, and tragically life altering or even ending for a child. In my view, there is no debate about that. They happen. Period.

The only debate is how often they happen and how they manifest.

In this specific case, these may be vaccine reactions, they may be reactions to a contaminant or something they were exposed to related to the vaccine, or they may be completely unrelated to the vaccine. I don't know. The information isn't really available to know for sure.
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#52 of 95 Old 01-17-2013, 09:37 PM
 
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If the paralysis was caused by water, food, or something airborne, an adult or two would likely be affected. Since only children became paralyzed, it is logical to conclude that the cause was most likely something only children were exposed to. Since the result was paralysis, which involves the nervous system, and meningitis also involves the nervous system, it seems likely that the vaccine is the cause. At least much more likely than the water.
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#53 of 95 Old 01-18-2013, 01:37 AM
 
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Perhaps. But logical assumptions based on incomplete data (how sure are we that no adults were affected for example?) are not exactly how science is done.

 

I'm sure this is being investigated seriously as a possible vaccine reaction. I suggest we wait for the results of that investigation. And keep our fingers crossed these children recover whatever the cause of their illness. :) 

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#54 of 95 Old 01-18-2013, 04:20 AM
 
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The paper would have reported adults being paralyzed, if there had been any. So, I'm pretty sure only children were affected. Grasping at straws to keep the "vaccines are safe" argument alive is not science at all.
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#55 of 95 Old 01-18-2013, 06:08 AM
 
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First of all, holy assumption batman. Turn that grasping at straws accusation around.

Second of all, some reports put the age of the "children" as old as 28 or 29.
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#56 of 95 Old 01-18-2013, 06:10 AM
 
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Not to mention, whatever it was may have only affected children or children could've been much more susceptible. Also, where did you see that only children were vaccinated?
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#57 of 95 Old 01-18-2013, 07:31 AM
 
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Not to mention, whatever it was may have only affected children or children could've been much more susceptible. Also, where did you see that only children were vaccinated?

You really should read the article, then you wouldn't have to post quesitons like the above. It was in the first paragraph.

 

 

 

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According to the newspaper La Voix, out of five hundred children who received the new meningitis vaccine MenAfriVac, at least 40 of them between the ages of 7 and 18 have become paralyzed. Those children also suffered hallucinations and convulsions.

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#58 of 95 Old 01-18-2013, 08:56 AM
 
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I see that they're only referring to children, but that's not the same as saying only children were vaccinated.
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#59 of 95 Old 01-18-2013, 01:42 PM
 
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I see that they're only referring to children, but that's not the same as saying only children were vaccinated.

Well, you would think they would have used the word "people" if adults were vaccinated that day. How many more smokescreens are you going to throw up? Bottom line, 40 or more kids out of 500 vaccinated were injured by the MenAfriVac in that region of Chad.

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#60 of 95 Old 01-18-2013, 01:49 PM
 
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Or they just stuck to kids. 40 children out of 500 children.

It would be kind of strange if only children were vaccinated that day, sice menafrivac is given to 1-29 year olds.

All I'm saying is there are a lot of unknown factors.
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