Vaccination – A Very Personal Decision. Are You Informed? - Mothering Forums
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#1 of 22 Old 01-21-2013, 03:57 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Vaccination – A Very Personal Decision. Are You Informed?

http://vactruth.com/2013/01/21/vaccination-personal-decision/?utm_source=The+Vaccine+Truth+Newsletter&utm_campaign=7312a3224f-01_20_2013_informed&utm_medium=email

 

 

 

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The moment arrives. As you are holding your newborn child in your arms for the first time, someone in the next room or down the hall prepares a little shot for your baby. Soon your baby will be injected with neurotoxins and other preservatives, and their immune system will be challenged to its core. This is one aspect of parenthood you haven’t researched, as you haven’t heard about anyone jumping off the vaccination bandwagon.

 

 

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In any wagonload of people, the needs of individual passengers may differ greatly, and what might be good for the majority of the passengers might be quite dangerous – even deadly – for others. And if ‘others’ is our child, it is our responsibility – not the driver’s – to foresee the danger and keep them from taking that deadly trip.
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#2 of 22 Old 01-21-2013, 05:40 AM
 
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I'll wait here for all the people who objected to stories being old about children with vpd to come by and object to playing the dead baby card here, too.
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#3 of 22 Old 01-21-2013, 06:00 AM
 
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Emmy - I know I was not informed when I had my first child.  I spent a lot of time reading up on pregnancy and child birth, and very little (perhaps none) on vaccines.  From what I have seen of family and friends, I am not alone in this - particularly with a first child.  The only reason DS did not have hep b at birth was because it was not given at birth where I lived - I was pretty clueless and just did what the doctors said.  

 

I have had 3 health care providers during pregnancy - 1 family doctor and 2 midwives.  None of my health care providers have brought up vaccination during pregnancy - and if they did , it was only in a cursory way.  I even remember my midwife saying they did not like to get into vaccines - as it was outside their scope of care.  True enough - but ugh!


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#4 of 22 Old 01-21-2013, 06:02 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I'll wait here for all the people who objected to stories being old about children with vpd to come by and object to playing the dead baby card here, too.

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To a degree, I think comparing this article to the article pro-sciencemom posted is a little off….not apples to oranges, but apples to grapples, perhaps?   Prosciencemums post was only a fear driven pro-vax story; there are fear driven aspects to the article the Op cited as well, but it also makes the excellent point (and very appropriate for this subforum) of "are you informed?"  It is an excellent point as I think many first time parents are not informed about vaccines when they are first asked to make their decision; I know I wasn't.  

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#5 of 22 Old 01-21-2013, 07:11 AM
 
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I thought I would share this:

 

http://www.kflapublichealth.ca/Files/Research/Parents_Knowledge_of_Childhood_Immunizations.pdf

 

It illustrates just how little knowledge parents have on vaccines.  
 

 

Here is a snippet from the beginning:

 

 

"Approximately one-third of parents could not recall what vaccines their child received. Parental knowledge of the diseases for which Pentacel and Prevnar offers protection was poor. Only 1.8% could correctly identify all five diseases that Pentacel protects against and 8.7% could identify the disease covered by Prevnar. Parents were generally aware of common side effects such as redness where the needle was given (87.4%), slight fever (82.4%), irritability (73.7%), and crying (65.8%), although there was concern about parents (up to 85%) who mistakenly attributed some symptoms to the vaccines when in fact they are not associated with immunization."

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There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#6 of 22 Old 01-21-2013, 07:43 AM
 
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I think psm article and the recent parents speaking out involve the same element of are you informed, they're just coming at it from are you informed about vaccine risks.
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#7 of 22 Old 01-21-2013, 08:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

Emmy - I know I was not informed when I had my first child.  I spent a lot of time reading up on pregnancy and child birth, and very little (perhaps none) on vaccines.  From what I have seen of family and friends, I am not alone in this - particularly with a first child.  The only reason DS did not have hep b at birth was because it was not given at birth where I lived - I was pretty clueless and just did what the doctors said.  

 

I wasn't informed with my first child either, and she was given both the Hep B and BCG vaccines at birth. I remember thinking that it was odd, as I didn't have Hep B and didn't think she would be at risk, and the BCG seemed strange because I got it as a teen, not as a newborn. I put it down to being in Hong Kong, so they felt they had different risk factors, I did think these risk factors probably weren't relevant to us but "Oh well......". I also questioned DD's ped about giving her the DPT, given my sister had serious reaction to it as a baby, I was fobbed off, and it turned out DD did have an adverse reaction to the first two doses. It look me until she was around two or three to really start questioning vaccines, when an acquaintance of mine came out vocally against vaccinating her baby boy, she was an intelligent women, not the kind of person to make some rash judgment, so I felt she probably had good reasons for her decision. There began my journey!


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#8 of 22 Old 01-21-2013, 11:24 AM
 
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I feel very informed in my decision to vaccinate. I share a lot of the sentiment, about the often expressed belief that people only go along with vaccines because they are not informed of the "dangers" of vaccination, that is expressed in this blog post: 

 

http://skeweddistribution.com/2012/10/01/dear-anti-vaxxer-yes-i-do-the-research/

 

(Sorry that was a really badly worded sentence. I think I'm tired!). 


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#9 of 22 Old 01-30-2013, 03:53 PM
 
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The dead baby card is used to trigger an emotional response, which in turn results in people not using their logical brain to make a decision -- instead they revert to the reptilian brain. Both sides use it, doesn't make it any better. However, not being informed about the risks is a real problem, and one that will continue to be a problem as long as the vaccine promoters feel that informed consent is not necessary. 


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#10 of 22 Old 02-05-2013, 06:44 PM
 
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I read the article provided by the link of prosciencemum looking to learn something but the article was void of any real content. It was fluff, all fluff.
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#11 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 07:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by maos211 View Post

I read the article provided by the link of prosciencemum looking to learn something but the article was void of any real content. It was fluff, all fluff.

Yep. Unfortunately, this is what the majorty of parents are given in the way of vaccine education.


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"If you find from your own experience that something is a fact and it contradicts what some authority has written down, then you must abandon the authority and base your reasoning on your own findings"~ Leonardo da Vinci

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#12 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 07:52 AM
 
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I don't think anyone was presenting tht as vaccine education. I think psm was offering it as a perspective she empathized with. Everything doesn't have to be all pubmed all the time.
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#13 of 22 Old 02-06-2013, 09:50 AM
 
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Yeah, it was just explains that you can do the research and come out in favor of vaccination. smile.gif

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#14 of 22 Old 02-07-2013, 10:26 PM
 
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The article posted by prosciencemum was more than just fluff, it is an attack piece on those who disagree with the mainstream medical point of view that vaccines are safe and effective. Oh and who is the author quoting when he/she quotes "question everything"? 

It is scary to think of what might happen should certain diseases strike your family. Growing up, the family next door had one child who was born with several problems due to the mom's having had German measles when she was pregnant with him (he was hearing impaired, intellectually challenged, had seizures, and may have had other developmental issues). However, it is also scary what vaccines can do.


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#15 of 22 Old 02-08-2013, 06:54 AM
 
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Well, it was a skeptic piece, and  they are usually pretty vile.

 

That being said, I somewhat understand it and agree with the basic idea, even if I disagree with a lot of the sentiments.

 

Some people vaccinate simply because everyone else does it and their doctor recommends it.  They have not done the research.  I can hear the cries of " but my doctor has more knowledge than I do and I trust him!"  Justifying or explaining why you did not research does not change the fact you did not research.  The link I posted upthread shows just how little most parents know about the vaccines their kids received. 

 

The second group of people who vaccinate are those who have researched the issue and decided to vaccinate.  Most of the pro-vaxxers who argue here fall into this category.  I can see them being ticked off when they are told to "do the research" when they have doubtlessly clocked hundreds of hours researching.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#16 of 22 Old 02-08-2013, 11:41 AM
 
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And some people don't vaccinate because they've "heard too much stuff" and haven't taken the time to do the research, either. And yes, people have said that exact thing to me.
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#17 of 22 Old 02-08-2013, 04:12 PM
 
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In addition to many people on both sides of the issue not doing research. Many are also seeking out affirmation instead of information and then calling it research. Becoming informed by spending hours researching on only sites and blogs that share your point of view isn't research. If I think I want to vaccinate so I spend hours research Pfizer, Merck, and Glaxo well that really isn't research or becoming informed. Similarly if I have heard something and don't want to vaccinate if I spend hours at anti-vax sites to "research" that also isn't becoming informed.
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#18 of 22 Old 02-08-2013, 04:36 PM
 
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I agree Dakotacakes and Rrrachel

 

I think our total body of information on vaccine effects is too limited for any of us to be more than partially informed, unfortunately.  Thus everyone's decision is based on some combination of accurate information and guessing or intuition.  Everybody has some basic biases about human health and government and the pharmaceutical industry that influence them from the outset. 

 

Individual research has its limitations.  I think it is important to learn what you can, but obviously people draw different conclusions from the information we have and have different levels of trust in certain sources.  People have different levels of interest in and ability to analyze the available information as well.   

 

While I dislike propaganda in general I am really glad that the vax-questioners get people's attention on this issue with their offerings, because I want all parents to at least question vaccination. I don't want people who don't vax ridiculed publicly but I do want that position and choice to be openly questioned as well.  Our eyes should remain on the question of what exactly are the long-term effects of this health practice.  I desperately want to know how exactly vaccination may be linked with autoimmune issues and allergies in our population, and I don't think we even know how to get those answers yet.  I want us to try.  Right now, if someone says these things aren't linked, they are not actually relying on anything to support the statement because we just don't have it yet.  We mainly just have a big fat question and some anecdotes waiting for us to learn more.


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#19 of 22 Old 02-08-2013, 04:50 PM
 
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There actually is research in those areas, little bird.
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#20 of 22 Old 02-08-2013, 05:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Dakotacakes View Post

In addition to many people on both sides of the issue not doing research.
I would not say many non-vaxxers do not research.   "Many" is a fairly subjective term.  Most people vaccinate - and most people who vaccinate do not know much about vaccines (see link upthread).  Vaccinators come from a range of socio-economic backgrounds.
 We know that those who are deliberately non-vax tend to be  upper middle class and well educated.  This is a group that does research its decisions, more so perhaps that the general public (into which those who vaccinate fall).
If anyone has any studies that show non-vaxxers do not have basic knowledge of vaccines, I would love to see it.  While we have some evidence on this thread that many vaccinators do not know much about the vaccines they inject into their children, we do not have any studies showing the same also holds true for non-vaccinators. 
There are some real world implication for non-vaxing as well that make it unlikely for a person to undertake this decision lightly.  Being kicked out of medical practice and having to deal with school exmeptions being two.
Many are also seeking out affirmation instead of information and then calling it research. Becoming informed by spending hours researching on only sites and blogs that share your point of view isn't research. If I think I want to vaccinate so I spend hours research Pfizer, Merck, and Glaxo well that really isn't research or becoming informed. Similarly if I have heard something and don't want to vaccinate if I spend hours at anti-vax sites to "research" that also isn't becoming informed.
 
I would agree.  

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#21 of 22 Old 02-08-2013, 05:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by littlest birds View Post

 

I think our total body of information on vaccine effects is too limited for any of us to be more than partially informed, unfortunately.  Thus everyone's decision is based on some combination of accurate information and guessing or intuition.  Everybody has some basic biases about human health and government and the pharmaceutical industry that influence them from the outset. 

 

Individual research has its limitations.  I think it is important to learn what you can, but obviously people draw different conclusions from the information we have and have different levels of trust in certain sources.  People have different levels of interest in and ability to analyze the available information as well.   

 

I completely agree.  


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#22 of 22 Old 02-09-2013, 08:27 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kathymuggle View Post

 

The second group of people who vaccinate are those who have researched the issue and decided to vaccinate.  Most of the pro-vaxxers who argue here fall into this category.  I can see them being ticked off when they are told to "do the research" when they have doubtlessly clocked hundreds of hours researching.

 

This is exactly why I posted the link. The article in the original post in this thread implies that if you don't "jump off the vaccination" band waggon you must be poorly informed about the risks and benefits of vaccination. I disagree. It is very possible to read the research and understand the risks but still end up at the decision that on balance vaccination is better both for your children, and the community you live in as a whole. :) 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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