I'm not anti-vax, I'm pro-research! - Page 5 - Mothering Forums
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
#121 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 01:51 PM
 
fruitfulmomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Between the Rockies and a Flat Place
Posts: 4,214
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)

The evidence never lies, but it certainly can be incomplete and it is always interpreted through bias. 


fruitfulmomma is online now  
#122 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 02:11 PM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Quote:
One of my favorite science quotes is, "Scientists often make the the mistake of assuming that everything they know is everything there is to know."  orngbiggrin.gif

I like that too!

and

Science does not know it's debt to imagination.

 

 

 

 

 

Quote:
The evidence never lies, but it certainly can be incomplete and it is always interpreted through bias. 

who looks and it and who draws the conclusions (to their advantage or not?! Hello BIG Pharma!) smile.gif - not who votes but who counts the votes 

BeckyBird likes this.

 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#123 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 05:33 PM
 
erigeron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama View Post

One of my favorite science quotes is, "Scientists often make the the mistake of assuming that everything they know is everything there is to know."  orngbiggrin.gif

I think there are probably very few scientists who actually think this. Scientists are always conducting more research. Why would they if they felt they knew everything? If anything it is the other way around--the more one learns, the more one realizes there is to learn. For my part, as a healthcare professional, I have enough in-depth knowledge to know that there is a large body of knowledge that I have not yet explored, which is one reason I am very skeptical of people who claim they're "educated" and "know more than their doctors" after reading a bunch of articles on the Internet. 

writinglove and prosciencemum like this.

WOHM to a girl jog.gif (6-11) and a new baby boy stork-boy.gif (2-14) and adjusting to the full-time life and husband being a SAHD. 
erigeron is offline  
#124 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 05:44 PM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Quote:
I think there are probably very few scientists who actually think this. Scientists are always conducting more research. Why would they if they felt they knew everything? If anything it is the other way around--the more one learns, the more one realizes there is to learn. For my part, as a healthcare professional, I have enough in-depth knowledge to know that there is a large body of knowledge that I have not yet explored, which is one reason I am very skeptical of people who claim they're "educated" and "know more than their doctors" after reading a bunch of articles on the Internet. 

another real good prospective can be from a Nurse Practitioner and their dealing with MD's - many do run into those who feel they do know it all- some are out there, there are all types


 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#125 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 05:45 PM
 
IdentityCrisisMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,631
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
That quote is less a dig on Scientists and more a comment on human nature...and offered on contrast to the quote by the planetarium dude (that quote from PSM was him, right?)

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
IdentityCrisisMama is offline  
#126 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 05:49 PM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,154
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Planetarium dude??? You mean Neil degrasse Tyson? He's an astrophysicist, not a docent, but maybe that's what you meant.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#127 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 05:51 PM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,154
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It's also acceptable to refer to him as "the man that killed Pluto."
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#128 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 05:56 PM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,154
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

Even I can grasp the notion that  highly educated, smart thoughtful parents can review the science and come to different conclusions - that's why we are here. 

I know this is going way back, but how ironic that this statement should come in on this thread. He of the things I find so annoying about the OP is e implication that if you actually do your research there's only one inevitable conclusion. I totally agree that reasonable intelligent people can look at the same set of facts and sometimes come to different conclusions.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#129 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 05:56 PM
 
IdentityCrisisMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,631
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Yes! I'm on my phone and was having a brain freeze. :-)

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
IdentityCrisisMama is offline  
#130 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 06:16 PM
 
IdentityCrisisMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,631
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post


I know this is going way back, but how ironic that this statement should come in on this thread. He of the things I find so annoying about the OP is e implication that if you actually do your research there's only one inevitable conclusion. I totally agree that reasonable intelligent people can look at the same set of facts and sometimes come to different conclusions.

I agree with this but I also think this kind of insinuation goes on from both sides of this issue. I feel like I've read here on MDC recently something like, "I'm pro-research, I vaccinate".  Or even Erigon's post that insinuates that those opposed to vaccination have made their decision after reading a bunch of articles on the internet. 

 

It always seems to me that we tend to see the negative in folks that we fundamentally disagree with...again with the human nature.  

 

This loops back into bias and stuff like that and right back into your comment that I quoted. Some sort of...right on the tip of my tongue...mobius stirp. ROTFLMAO.gif

rachelsmama likes this.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
IdentityCrisisMama is offline  
#131 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 07:02 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
I DID make my decisions based largely on the Internet. lol.gif Without the Internet, I would never have seen ACIP meeting notes, medical journal abstracts, investigative reports, the CDC Pink Book, vaccine package inserts, compelling op-eds in medical journals, IoM reports, Cochrane Collaboration data, CIRDAP data, vaccine-related congressional testimonies, vaccine-related court decisions, data from VAERS, data from NVICP, epidemiologic data on outbreaks, other countries' vaccine schedules, information about my legal rights, doctors disagreeing with each other... and learning other peoples' competing interests is just a few keystrokes away. Pesky old Internet! winky.gif

It's no wonder public health officials are constantly quoted in the media with some condescending sound-bite about "misinformation on the Internet." They take comfort in the narrative that anybody who questions them cannot possibly know how to track down, read, and critically evaluate any source material. It would shake them to the core to learn that I'm not shallow enough to make my decisions based on what Jenny McCarthy says. eyesroll.gif

I agree, though. There's a tendency on pretty much any side of any issue to self-aggrandize by painting opponents as idiots. The problem is that that's not an argument. It's just a substitute for an argument.

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#132 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 07:17 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma View Post

The evidence never lies, but it certainly can be incomplete and it is always interpreted through bias. 

So science is infallible. But not necessarily scientists.

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#133 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 09:26 PM
 
erigeron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,345
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Um, way to miss the point of my post, guys. Go back and reread it. It wasn't really about the Internet. It was about the immense body of knowledge involved in science. 


WOHM to a girl jog.gif (6-11) and a new baby boy stork-boy.gif (2-14) and adjusting to the full-time life and husband being a SAHD. 
erigeron is offline  
#134 of 261 Old 03-04-2013, 10:30 PM
 
IdentityCrisisMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,631
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

It's also acceptable to refer to him as "the man that killed Pluto."

I love that we can go WAY off topic in this forum...but I was checking that NTG (aka "that planetarium dude") is credited with the quote from PSM and was going to say how I thought it was a little ironic that he was the man who killed Pluto and I think maybe he isn't the man who killed Pluto. From Mike Brown: "It’s been a long time coming. Science is self-correcting eventually, even when strong emotions are involved."  

 

Happy medium? orngbiggrin.gif

prosciencemum likes this.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
IdentityCrisisMama is offline  
#135 of 261 Old 03-05-2013, 03:19 AM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,706
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama View Post

One of my favorite science quotes is, "Scientists often make the the mistake of assuming that everything they know is everything there is to know."  orngbiggrin.gif

I think that's actually one of the last things scientists do. Science is the process of finding the point where we don't know anything and probing into it.... 

 

I think perhaps non-scientists make the mistake of thinking scientists assume they know everything they need to know. Bit convoluted though! 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is offline  
#136 of 261 Old 03-05-2013, 03:20 AM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,706
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

Science does not know it's debt to imagination.

 

 

 

It really does. The process of science involved a lot of imaginative thinking. :) 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is offline  
#137 of 261 Old 03-05-2013, 03:24 AM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,706
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 62 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama View Post

I love that we can go WAY off topic in this forum...but I was checking that NTG (aka "that planetarium dude") is credited with the quote from PSM and was going to say how I thought it was a little ironic that he was the man who killed Pluto and I think maybe he isn't the man who killed Pluto. From Mike Brown: "It’s been a long time coming. Science is self-correcting eventually, even when strong emotions are involved."  

 

Happy medium? orngbiggrin.gif

 

I love that quote. 

 

I think both Mike Brown and Neil de Grasse Tyson have a claim to helping with the redifinition of pluto. Mike Brown was the discover of MakeMake (a dwarf planet larger than pluto and in a similar orbit to it). Neil de Grasse Tyson in his role as Director of the PLantarium in the Natural HIstory Museum in New York made the decision to not list pluto as one of the planets. PS. pluto is still there and exactly the same as it always was - it's just our opinion/classification of it that has changed.  

 

Kind of makes my point I think - science is always true - it's just our understanding/opinion of things which is constantly being developed and changed. So there is an answer to if vaccines cause X, or prevent Y - but our measurement of that answer may change over time. 

Jennyanydots likes this.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

prosciencemum is offline  
#138 of 261 Old 03-05-2013, 03:28 AM
 
IdentityCrisisMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,631
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

I think perhaps non-scientists make the mistake of thinking scientists assume they know everything they need to know. Bit convoluted though! 

It certainly could be because I think it may have been a journalist who said that, come to think of it. I'll see if I can dig up the quote. 

 

That said, the quote you gave...my guess is that NTG was referring to something very specific and not to science in general always being right, no? Because doesn't that kind of generally contradict the idea that we should be aware that all we know isn't all there is to know? 

 

I'll see if I can find it in context. 


Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
IdentityCrisisMama is offline  
#139 of 261 Old 03-05-2013, 03:46 AM
 
IdentityCrisisMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,631
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)

I had a feeling that the NDT quote was made in reference to global warming and I think that may well be - from an episode of the Bill Maher show, which I'm sure I can find but I dislike him and can't watch. ;-)  

 

As for my quote...I can't find it because I think it was just a vague reference in one of Michael Pollan's books. He was talking about nutrition fads and the comment really resonated with me. I honestly don't think it applies well to scientists in general but think it is a pitfall of all applied sciences, which are often developed with what we know.  The me this is a perfectly fine, practical thing that doesn't need to be elevated or demonized. It just is.  

 

I will revise my quote to read, "One of the pitfalls of applied science is that they are often developed what what we know, not what we don't know...and that's life."  orngbiggrin.gif


Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
IdentityCrisisMama is offline  
#140 of 261 Old 03-05-2013, 07:50 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by erigeron View Post

Um, way to miss the point of my post, guys. Go back and reread it. It wasn't really about the Internet. It was about the immense body of knowledge involved in science. 

Yea, I got the main point. But I couldn't let that little aside about "articles on the Internet" go unchallenged. winky.gif

Here's my own favorite NDT gem:

"When your reasons for believing something are justified ad hoc, you are left susceptible to further discoveries undermining the rationale for that belief."

When does "pro-science" cross the line into "pro-confirmation bias?"

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#141 of 261 Old 03-05-2013, 07:54 PM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,154
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
When we stop listening to dissenting opinions and sit around congratulating each other on being so much smarter and better researched than people who disagree with us.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#142 of 261 Old 03-05-2013, 08:06 PM
 
Turquesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,050
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
I just wonder how many of us are genuinely prepared to be wrong. It's humbling to think about. We all seem to have such a stake in this debate. I wonder how much science we'd know and how much knowledge we'd have if human egos didn't get in the way...

In God we trust; all others must show data. selectivevax.gifsurf.gifteapot2.GIFintactivist.gif
Turquesa is offline  
#143 of 261 Old 03-06-2013, 04:44 AM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Quote:
I just wonder how many of us are genuinely prepared to be wrong. It's humbling to think about. We all seem to have such a stake in this debate. I wonder how much science we'd know and how much knowledge we'd have if human egos didn't get in the way...

I too would love to see this!

 

IRL I don't even know anyone close to some like on here, so I would not know how they would react - I find it so very odd that those who are sooooooo in one way, know of no one that has been effected (totally un-like real life people I know) - so that would be very interesting but I feel if something actually did occur I high doubt you would ever really know it did and how they truly felt.  

 

IRL I do see things (medical but not vaccinated related) and some simply can not grasp with reality. I know of someone having a medical procedure (so we are talking real science here, real MD's) and this person is just happy as can be - the readily is the person is having an invasive procedure (with risks) to deal with symptoms but not cause of a major medical problem. This is a well informed person that is not unfamiliar with medical issues yet this person can not come to terms with the cause of the problem and needs to justify and re-justify to accept what is going to happen and when confronted with the under lying cause just flat out refuses to even say the word related to it - so denial is and can be very strong! Sad when so many that love and care about you can see reality and you just want to get your head deeper and deeper in the sand- it's happens- I see a real parallel. 

 

eta- my position came from personal experience and personal observation of others (been there done that)


 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#144 of 261 Old 03-06-2013, 05:09 AM
 
IdentityCrisisMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,631
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

I wonder how much science we'd know and how much knowledge we'd have if human egos didn't get in the way...

Yes, and I also really liked your previous post and that quote by NGD.  

 

What I'm about to say isn't about parents who decide to vaccinate or not...

 

Although I have a generally positive view of human nature, I think the potential for corruption is there for sure. I think sometimes researchers, medical professionals and alternative thinkers (for lack of a better word), are motivated by money (sure) but I also think people are also motivated by "being right", scooping other people, being cutting edge, getting there first, and etc. For that, I feel like there is bias on both sides of this issue. 

 

As for myself and am I prepared to be right or wrong...

 

I really hope I'm doing the right thing for my children and I know everyone else feels the same. When I read about parents who really regret one/some of the choices they made on behalf of their kids, my heart breaks for them. There is enough room for error that most of us will never be in that place but that doesn't mean that a perfect storm of consequences couldn't land all of us there. 

 

So, for me, it's about making the best choice for my individual children with the information I am able to gather/absorb/understand at the time. I can't predict the future and I can't influence every little thing so I am open for that choice to turn out to not be the best one. 

rachelsmama likes this.

Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
IdentityCrisisMama is offline  
#145 of 261 Old 03-06-2013, 05:13 AM
 
IdentityCrisisMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,631
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

eta- my position came from personal experience and personal observation of others (been there done that)

It seems like you know a lot of people that you don't respect all that much. I make a lot of my parenting choices (not so much medical) on observation of the friends and family I admire. I think if I knew a lot of people that I didn't respect, I would have to form my opinions in a different way. It's a sort of negative reaction "what I don't like" choice making that I feel like may be lacking in ways. 

 

Also, I was thinking more about this (ETA) and I think if you have a relationship without mutual respect, it's really difficult to get to place where you are sharing openly enough to really feel like you know that person's situation. I know that if I felt judged by someone, I would be less likely to open up and share my story with them. And, even if you say that you know they have told you their entire story....I think we all have very complex stories and relationships with medicine. My choices about medicine are strongly influenced by my early childhood but I don't really talk about that even with people who love and respect me. 

 

So, making your choices by what you observe in others (especially others who you don't respect and may not be that open to you) is something I would caution you against. 


Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
IdentityCrisisMama is offline  
#146 of 261 Old 03-06-2013, 05:19 AM
 
Rrrrrachel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,154
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turquesa View Post

I just wonder how many of us are genuinely prepared to be wrong. It's humbling to think about. We all seem to have such a stake in this debate. I wonder how much science we'd know and how much knowledge we'd have if human egos didn't get in the way...

I like to think that I am. I'm sure that will make some people laugh.

For me it's like the evidence is on a scale. Right now there's 100 pounds of evidence on one side and, I don't know, maybe 10 pounds on the other. Any change I opinion is going to happen slowly as weight is added or removed from either side and the balance slowly shifts. It's highly unlikely that there's one piece of evidence that will do it on its own.

I also see a lot of people offering speculation. Companies COULD be hiding something. Various elements of vaccines COULD react in our bodies this way. That's some pretty light evidence, for me.
prosciencemum likes this.
Rrrrrachel is offline  
#147 of 261 Old 03-06-2013, 06:05 AM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Quote:

It seems like you know a lot of people that you don't respect all that much. I make a lot of my parenting choices (not so much medical) on observation of the friends and family I admire. I think if I knew a lot of people that I didn't respect, I would have to form my opinions in a different way. It's a sort of negative reaction "what I don't like" choice making that I feel like may be lacking in ways. 

 

Also, I was thinking more about this (ETA) and I think if you have a relationship without mutual respect, it's really difficult to get to place where you are sharing openly enough to really feel like you know that person's situation. I know that if I felt judged by someone, I would be less likely to open up and share my story with them. And, even if you say that you know they have told you their entire story....I think we all have very complex stories and relationships with medicine. My choices about medicine are strongly influenced by my early childhood but I don't really talk about that even with people who love and respect me. 

 

So, making your choices by what you observe in others (especially others who you don't respect and may not be that open to you) is something I would caution you against. This is utterly bazaar! dizzy.gif

WOW! have you twisted what I said!

 

I had a vac reaction, my DD did- I clearly saw what happened and somehow I don't respect???? I have seen others that I know have reactions as well- before and after-

 

 

the medical issue I wrote about deals with three MD's saying the exact same thing and a person who dr shopped to get only symptoms treated by another(4th)(and I may add because the others refused to do it as not treating the underlying cause!) and some how this is not respect??? I just don't get you! 


 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
#148 of 261 Old 03-06-2013, 06:25 AM
 
IdentityCrisisMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,631
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)

You edited my quote, which is confusing but I want to respond. I can only respond to your words that you shared here. The way you talk about the family with the sick child and your friend undergoing the medical procedure seemed to me like you don't have a whole lot of respect for those people. Perhaps you're just venting and perhaps I'm just reacting to my own personal interpretation of how people talk about people that I respect. 

 

I am not trying to twist what you say.

 

Observations of people making choices that you don't respect seemed to be a theme in your recent posts. Those were followed by this comment: 

Quote:
eta- my position came from personal experience and personal observation of others (been there done that)

 

I am misinterpreting your post, I apologize and will read any future posts with that in mind.

 

Rainbow.gif


Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
IdentityCrisisMama is offline  
#149 of 261 Old 03-06-2013, 06:55 AM
 
IdentityCrisisMama's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 10,631
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by serenbat View Post

the medical issue I wrote about deals with three MD's saying the exact same thing and a person who dr shopped to get only symptoms treated by another(4th)(and I may add because the others refused to do it as not treating the underlying cause!) and some how this is not respect??? I just don't get you! 

This person is stuck in my head as I sort laundry. I'm wondering if perhaps the other doctors she saw did not offer acceptable options for treating the problem AND and the underlying problem. And that treating the symptoms (even with risk) seems worth it to her for some reason. It seems like if she's seeking a 4th opinion to get some relief for her symptoms, they must be negatively impacting her life in a real way. I hope she has a good outcome and eventually finds a way treat her underlying causes. 


Mama to DD September 2001 and DD April 2011 *Winner for most typos* eat.gif
IdentityCrisisMama is offline  
#150 of 261 Old 03-06-2013, 06:55 AM
 
serenbat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Quote:
You edited my quote,

I could have quoted the entire thing and it would not have made any difference-IMO!

 

How you jump (and it's a BIG jump) to not respecting is simply crazy-IMO

 

You assume and WRONGLY that it's about respect when it's all about sympathy - I feel sorry for people that need to Dr shop to get what they want reagardless of what is real! It has been well documented (sure some will even question this as they do "reactions") that for a price anyone can get most anything they want - be it drugs or procedures-medically speaking. 

I feel for those who can't see reality - there are times (cases) when you clearly are presented with evidence that is obvious to even a laymen (again in this case other dr.) that are clear cut and those who still live in denial about it.

 

The medical condition (in just this example) is so OT for here but it is as clear an example as if one would receive a "true reaction" (as in what is listed by the drug manufactures on vacs) and still live in la la land and pretend didn't occurred because of the vac. 


 

 pro-transparency advocate

&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

serenbat is offline  
Reply

Tags
Vaccinations , The Vaccine Controversy The History Use And Safety Of Vaccinations , Saying No To Vaccines , Vaccines

Quick Reply
Message:
Drag and Drop File Upload
Drag files here to attach!
Upload Progress: 0
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Mothering Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off