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#31 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 12:30 PM
 
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  Not bad for a made up disease.

Dr Humphries never said that polio was a "made up disease".


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#32 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 12:46 PM
 
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One more thing to add, polio is not gone.  Fortunately it has been eradicated from this country (for now), but it still infects people in other parts of the world.  In 1988 there were around 350,000 cases of polio world wide.  I guess the conspiracy is ongoing.

 

I found this really interesting, from wiki:

 

 

 

 

 

And then the list of notable survivors of polio is really interesting, too.  Not bad for a made up disease.

no - its just called something else now winky.gif


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#33 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 01:06 PM
 
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So where are the victims?  Where are the outbreaks?  Where are the quarantines?

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#34 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 02:43 PM
 
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Those quotes are surely over 100 words.  

 

I really hate watching videos.  Isnt' there something I can read instead?

I want to clarify MDC's copyright policy here for a minute because Marnica's post also received a member flag from a different user. The first quote is not over 100 words and the second appears to be public domain. If anyone wishes to check the word count on a quote before flagging, you can cut and past into word, which will give you the count. 

 

Rrrrachel, I know you didn't flag this post but your comment was a good place for me to jump in with a little user clarification. 

 

Carry on...

 

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#35 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 02:56 PM
 
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Ftr I didn't flag anything
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#36 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 03:07 PM
 
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I know -- I actually edited my post above a little bit ago to be clear about that. You're all good. thumb.gif  I just wanted to clarify on the thread for everyone who wondered why Marnica's post was OK. 


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#37 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 06:32 PM
 
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Back on topic, Marnica's quote points out some facts that are so disturbing, I'd like to make sure that they don't get lost:

 

 

Quote:
...."Prior to 1954 any physician who reported paralytic poliomyelitis was doing his patient a service by way of subsidizing the cost of hospitalization and was being community-minded in reporting a communicable disease. The criterion of diagnosis at that time in most health departments followed the World Health Organization definition: "Spinal paralytic poliomyelitis: signs and symptoms of nonparalytic poliomyelitis with the addition of partial or complete paralysis of one or more muscle groups, detected on two examinations at least 24 hours apart." Note that "two examinations at least 24 hours apart" was all that was required. Laboratory confirmation and presence of residual paralysis was not required. In 1955 the criteria were changed to conform more closely to the definition used in the 1954 field trials: residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days after onset of illness and again 50 to 70 days after onset.... This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer-lasting paralysis. Furthermore, diagnostic procedures have continued to be refined. Coxsackie virus infections and aseptic meningitis have been distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis. Prior to 1954 large numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic poliomyelitis. Thus, simply by changes in diagnostic criteria, the number of paralytic cases was predetermined to decrease in 1955-1957, whether or not any vaccine was used. 
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#38 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 08:05 PM
 
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Taxi, I'm not sure where the quote you used is from (because there isn't a link) but if it isn't public domain it should be limited to 100 words. 


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#39 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 08:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by IdentityCrisisMama View Post

Taxi, I'm not sure where the quote you used is from (because there isn't a link) but if it isn't public domain it should be limited to 100 words. 

 

The quote Taxi posted is the same one Marnica posted with different phrases highlighted. You have already stated that it was okay for Marnica to post it, so I assume the same goes for Taxi?

 

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Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

Actual testimony: From Intensive Immunization Programs, Hearings before the Committee on Interstate & Foreign Commerce, House of Representatives, 87th Congress, 2nd Session on H.R. 10541, Wash DC: Us Government Printing Office, 1962; p. 96-97 

 

 

 

Quote:
...."Prior to 1954 any physician who reported paralytic poliomyelitis was doing his patient a service by way of subsidizing the cost of hospitalization and was being community-minded in reporting a communicable disease. The criterion of diagnosis at that time in most health departments followed the World Health Organization definition: "Spinal paralytic poliomyelitis: signs and symptoms of nonparalytic poliomyelitis with the addition of partial or complete paralysis of one or more muscle groups, detected on two examinations at least 24 hours apart." Note that "two examinations at least 24 hours apart" was all that was required. Laboratory confirmation and presence of residual paralysis was not required. In 1955 the criteria were changed to conform more closely to the definition used in the 1954 field trials: residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days after onset of illness and again 50 to 70 days after onset.... This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer-lasting paralysis. Furthermore, diagnostic procedures have continued to be refined. Coxsackie virus infections and aseptic meningitis have been distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis. Prior to 1954 large numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic poliomyelitis. Thus, simply by changes in diagnostic criteria, the number of paralytic cases was predetermined to decrease in 1955-1957, whether or not any vaccine was used. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post

Back on topic, Marnica's quote points out some facts that are so disturbing, I'd like to make sure that they don't get lost:

 

 

Quote:
...."Prior to 1954 any physician who reported paralytic poliomyelitis was doing his patient a service by way of subsidizing the cost of hospitalization and was being community-minded in reporting a communicable disease. The criterion of diagnosis at that time in most health departments followed the World Health Organization definition: "Spinal paralytic poliomyelitis: signs and symptoms of nonparalytic poliomyelitis with the addition of partial or complete paralysis of one or more muscle groups, detected on two examinations at least 24 hours apart." Note that "two examinations at least 24 hours apart" was all that was required. Laboratory confirmation and presence of residual paralysis was not required. In 1955 the criteria were changed to conform more closely to the definition used in the 1954 field trials: residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days after onset of illness and again 50 to 70 days after onset.... This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer-lasting paralysis. Furthermore, diagnostic procedures have continued to be refined. Coxsackie virus infections and aseptic meningitis have been distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis. Prior to 1954 large numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic poliomyelitis. Thus, simply by changes in diagnostic criteria, the number of paralytic cases was predetermined to decrease in 1955-1957, whether or not any vaccine was used. 

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#40 of 57 Old 02-22-2013, 04:05 AM
 
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The quote Taxi posted is the same one Marnica posted with different phrases highlighted. You have already stated that it was okay for Marnica to post it, so I assume the same goes for Taxi?

 

 

Yes, if it is public domain like a government record it can be longer than 100 words. If it is taken from someone's book it needs to be limited to 100 words or less. I wasn't sure if Taxi's quote was from Marnica's first source (the book) or the second  source (public record). 


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#41 of 57 Old 02-22-2013, 05:03 AM
 
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now is this the same polio vax that was contaminated with SV-40, and passing that contamination on to their offspring?

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#42 of 57 Old 02-22-2013, 06:40 AM
 
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Prior to 1964 some polio vaccines were contaminated with sv40. I'm interested in some documentation of the assertion that people pass it to their offspring.
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#43 of 57 Old 02-22-2013, 10:27 AM
 
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Prior to 1964 some polio vaccines were contaminated with sv40. I'm interested in some documentation of the assertion that people pass it to their offspring.

AHHHHH I just spent 45 minutes putting together a response with multiple links to studies about this and poof with a click of the wrong button GONE! I'm so aggravated!!

 

In any case,  there were multiple studies that I was able to find so I'm sure if you were so inclined you could as well. If I have time at some point I will try again but right now I actually have to do some work. 


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#44 of 57 Old 02-22-2013, 10:52 AM
 
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Aw man that stinks. Thanks for the effort. Maybe you could tell me your search parameters.

I was able to find a lot of studies comparing the risk of cancer in people vaccinated with contaminated vccines vs unvaccinated and they haven't found an increased risk. That doesn't mean there isn't one of course.
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#45 of 57 Old 02-24-2013, 05:38 PM
 
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Rrrrachel, (and anyone else who is interested) here is some reading material for you:

 

The Poison Cause of Poliomyelitis And Obstructions To Its Investigation

http://www.vaclib.org/sites/harpub/scobpois.htm

 

This article is also on ncbi, not just vaclib. I can't access it, but it is there.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14924801?report=abstract

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#46 of 57 Old 02-24-2013, 06:53 PM
 
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Thanks. I appreciate it.
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#47 of 57 Old 02-25-2013, 07:47 AM
 
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More....

 

SV40 vertical transmission in hamsters:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19181358

 

A nice graph about pesticides and polio:

http://vactruth.com/2012/06/03/7-trivia-facts-about-polio/

 


 
 
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#48 of 57 Old 02-25-2013, 07:53 AM
 
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That graph looks like the two AREN'T connected, to me. If the relationship was causal there wouldn't be any peaks in DDT that didn't correspond to peaks in polio, and there are several.

I also wonder the graph would look like if it included a broader time period (on both ends but especially further into the past. There were significant polio epidemics in the early 1900d that aren't shown) and for other countries.
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#49 of 57 Old 02-25-2013, 08:13 AM
 
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Some cases of poisoning might have been mistaken for polio, since the symptoms were similar (and since many were diagnosed without tests) .  Or, the poisoning could have caused weakened immune systems, resulting in more cases of polio. Other interesting points include the introduction of canned milk, formula, and excess sugar consumption.

 

This is why I recommended the video, because all of this--and more--was covered. I'm sorry you couldn't get past the first 15 minutes. I did not want to get into a debate that took up so much time, and I thought recommending the video was a quick way out. How wrong I was!

 

The reason I don't believe the vaccine eradicated polio is because there are too many unknowns. Have you read the article from post 45?


 
 
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#50 of 57 Old 02-25-2013, 08:21 AM
 
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Yes, I did read that article. It was from the 1950s. I believe many of the concerns it brings up have been addressed. We know a lot more about germs, viruses, and immunology now.
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#51 of 57 Old 02-25-2013, 08:23 AM
 
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I think it's almost certain that SOME cases of diagnosed polio were really something else. The question is how many. I will also buy that toxins of all kinds in our environment can leave us more susceptible to infection (that is a personal belief that I have no basis for), but the source of illness is still the infection from a virus. As such, it can be prevented with a vaccine.
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#52 of 57 Old 02-25-2013, 08:47 AM
 
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Yes, I did read that article. It was from the 1950s. I believe many of the concerns it brings up have been addressed. We know a lot more about germs, viruses, and immunology now.

 

By the same logic, how can you trust they accurately identified cases of polio?  The criteria was loose and it did change after the vaccine was introduced. The cases were not usually lab-confirmed. I'm not convinced, but I'm an eternal skeptic.


 
 
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#53 of 57 Old 02-25-2013, 09:52 AM
 
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I think it's almost certain that SOME cases of diagnosed polio were really something else. The question is how many.

we may never know, because the info was never recored!

 

I know one family (mother was a RN at the time) and only one of the three children got polio- all same exposure at the time, no documentation was taken (the mother always questioned this)- all three children are still alive and the one is now is considered post polio yet no one ever looked into why just this one got it, if the others did have it (in some form yet showed nothing) - this would (still is) a good family to look at- yet nothing was ever looked into, there are many out there like it as well.


 

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#54 of 57 Old 02-25-2013, 09:55 AM
 
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95% of polio cases are asymptomatic.

I don't think it's appropriate to Monday morning quarterback diagnosis from 60+ years ago. I do think doctors back then weren't total morons.

Cases in the clinical trials WERE laboratory confirmed.
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#55 of 57 Old 02-25-2013, 10:22 AM
 
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95% of polio cases are asymptomatic.

I don't think it's appropriate to Monday morning quarterback diagnosis from 60+ years ago. I do think doctors back then weren't total morons.
Cases in the clinical trials WERE laboratory confirmed.

 

 

Quote:
Quote:
I think it's almost certain that SOME cases of diagnosed polio were really something else. The question is how many.

so why did you wonder if you have all answers? dizzy.gif


 

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#56 of 57 Old 02-25-2013, 10:46 AM
 
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I didn't wonder. But of course I don't have the answer. I have an opinion just like everyone else.
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#57 of 57 Old 02-25-2013, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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95% of polio cases are asymptomatic.

I don't think it's appropriate to Monday morning quarterback diagnosis from 60+ years ago. I do think doctors back then weren't total morons.

Cases in the clinical trials WERE laboratory confirmed.

]I just learned today what "Monday morning quarterback" means (I'm in the US for a work trip). Funny you'd use it the same day! 


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