Graphic showing percent decrease in VPD morbidity - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 01:07 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Forbes published an infographic based on CDC statistics about the percent decrease in VPD morbidity (pre vaccination era annual rates of diseases compared to the 2010 annual rate). The Forbes article presenting it is at the below link (which has links to the sources of the statistics). 

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2013/02/19/a-graphic-that-drives-home-how-vaccines-have-changed-our-world/

 

And here's the info graphic, created by a graphic designer names Leon Farrant. 

 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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#2 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 01:17 AM
 
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Polio? No way. Vaccines did not eradicate polio. Please see this thread for a few reasons why:

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1374680/video-smoke-mirrors-and-the-disappearance-of-polio-a-presentation-by-dr-suzanne-humphries

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#3 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 04:53 AM
 
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The conspiracy theory about how polio just got renamed (really? How many kids do you know wearing braces on their legs?) not withstanding, I saw that graphic a few days ago and thought it was great. Really puts into perspective the impact of even the weaker vaccines like pertussis.
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#4 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 06:01 AM
 
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The conspiracy theory about how polio just got renamed (really? How many kids do you know wearing braces on their legs?) not withstanding, I saw that graphic a few days ago and thought it was great. Really puts into perspective the impact of even the weaker vaccines like pertussis.

ROTFLMAO.gifYou are the one buying into a conspiracy theory in believing Polio was ever eradicated. 

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#5 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 07:33 AM
 
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Calling it a conspiracy theory does not make it one. Why don't you visit the link I posted, and learn the entire story, which is a LOT more than just the renaming of polio symptoms.

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#6 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 09:56 AM
 
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I don't need to. I've talked to people who lived through polio and had loved ones maimed by it.
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#7 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 10:05 AM
 
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I don't need to. I've talked to people who lived through polio and had loved ones maimed by it.

ROTFLMAO.gifAnecdotes, anecdotes. biglaugh.gif

 

Too afraid to watch the presentation because Dr Humphries might be right? 

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#8 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 10:16 AM
 
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I don't need to. I've talked to people who lived through polio and had loved ones maimed by it.

so have I. My uncle had polio as a child and has post polio syndrome as a result and is wheelchair bound. what's your point? They changed the definition of polio and as a result the numbers of cases dropped drastically - not sure why you think this is a conspiracy theory. Its part of history. 

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#9 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 10:31 AM
 
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Polio was a mountain in the landscape of american life before it was eradicated.  If the vaccine didn't eradicate it, and it (or something like it, whatever was originally diagnosed as polio) still persists in the same kind of numbers, it would be difficult to ignore.

 

http://amhistory.si.edu/polio/americanepi/communities.htm

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And I asked some people born in the early 1900's what they thought of the theory that polio hasn't really been eradicated by the vaccine, and they just laughed.  

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#11 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 10:35 AM
 
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Really this is like poking at a sore.  I just really can't get over the fact that people seriously are against the polio vaccine or dont' think it was effective. I can wrap my brain around some of the other vaccines, but not polio.  It's just incredible to me and I can't quite get past it, I guess.  I suppose I must've learned the sheeple version of american history.

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#12 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 10:37 AM
 
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And I asked some people born in the early 1900's what they thought of the theory that polio hasn't really been eradicated by the vaccine, and they just laughed.  

 

And these people have researched the topic and written books on the subject?

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Polio was a mountain in the landscape of american life before it was eradicated.  If the vaccine didn't eradicate it, and it (or something like it, whatever was originally diagnosed as polio) still persists in the same kind of numbers, it would be difficult to ignore.

 

http://amhistory.si.edu/polio/americanepi/communities.htm

Watch the video.

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#13 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 10:38 AM
 
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Really this is like poking at a sore.  I just really can't get over the fact that people seriously are against the polio vaccine or dont' think it was effective. I can wrap my brain around some of the other vaccines, but not polio.  It's just incredible to me and I can't quite get past it, I guess.  I suppose I must've learned the sheeple version of american history.

 

Yep, 'fraid so.

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#14 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 10:42 AM
 
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And I asked some people born in the early 1900's what they thought of the theory that polio hasn't really been eradicated by the vaccine, and they just laughed.  

of course they did - unless someone was aware of the change in diagnostic criteria, the idea would seem ridiculous. The change in diagnostic criteria was not a publicized event. It was not known by anyone in the general public. The vaccine was credited for the eradication of polio and most people in the general public accept what they are told. 

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#15 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 10:44 AM
 
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I don't need to. I've talked to people who lived through polio and had loved ones maimed by it.

1. Prove they really had polio. Do you know how polio was commonly diagnosed back then?  I'll just say it was about as "un-scientific" as could be. The video explains this, with facts from that time period.

 

2. So, because polio declined during the time of the vaccine, are we to assume the vaccine is the cause? Were there any other environmental factors at that time? Yes, there were. If you want to know why polio declined, you must know everything that might have contributed to the decline. Again, see video for more facts.

 

Why not watch the video and debunk it for us? Show us how wrong we are! The video is full of facts, which we all can appreciate.

You see, vaccine advocates have the burden of proof. If I am expected to give my child a vaccine, it should be up to you (general pro-vax you) to prove to me why I should. It is not up to me to prove why I don't want this elective medical procedure.

 

So, why should I believe the polio vaccines had anything to do with the decline of polio? The facts do not support this claim.

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#16 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 10:47 AM
 
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Regardless of whether it was polio or not, where are all those sick people??  Where are the hundreds of children all across the country who suddenly fall ill without warning?

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You're aware that there were massive clinical trials for the Polio vaccine, right?  Good old fashioned vaccinated vs. unvaccinated and compare.  Many of the objections that are raised against vaccine research today simply don't apply to the polio vaccine development.  It's about as "pure" a clinical trial as you can get.

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http://amhistory.si.edu/polio/virusvaccine/clinical.htm

 

 

 

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In 1954, almost 75 percent of reported poliomyelitis cases occurred in people under twenty years of age, and 50 percent in children under ten. The trial’s study population, then, targeted some 1.8 million children in the first three grades of elementary school at 215 test sites. In the double-blind experiment, 650,000 children received vaccine, 750,000 received a placebo (a solution made to look like vaccine, but containing no virus), and 430,000 served as controls and had neither. All were “Polio Pioneers.”
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If you still can't wrap your head around this, then you should watch the video. The speaker is a "real" doctor, who decided to look at ALL of the facts about polio. She did not just trust what the establishment claims to be true.

Save the video, and watch it in segments if you must. Debunk it for us. Until then, you cannot expect us to believe polio was eradicated by the vaccine, when there are other valid, factual reasons for the decline.

 

Your emotional pleas are falling on deaf ears. Show us some facts please. A silly chart of "vaccine comes around, polio goes down" is not enough.

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#20 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 10:53 AM
 
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Regardless of whether it was polio or not, where are all those sick people??  Where are the hundreds of children all across the country who suddenly fall ill without warning?


Where is the DDT now? Have you investigated this claim yet? Hasn't anything else changed since then?

 


               "Those who are able to see beyond the shadows and lies of their culture will never be understood, let alone believed, by the masses."

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#21 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 10:58 AM
 
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DDT wasn't banned until 1972.

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If you still can't wrap your head around this, then you should watch the video. The speaker is a "real" doctor, who decided to look at ALL of the facts about polio. She did not just trust what the establishment claims to be true.

Save the video, and watch it in segments if you must. Debunk it for us. Until then, you cannot expect us to believe polio was eradicated by the vaccine, when there are other valid, factual reasons for the decline.

 

Your emotional pleas are falling on deaf ears. Show us some facts please. A silly chart of "vaccine comes around, polio goes down" is not enough.

 

 

Clinical.  Trials.

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DDT wasn't banned until 1972.

Watch the video, then and come back here and debunk it.


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Clinical.  Trials.

Again, watch the video, this is discussed.


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#25 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 11:24 AM
 
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From Randall Neustaetder's book:

 

 

 

Quote:
Dr. Bernard Greenberg, a biostatistics expert, was chairman of the Committee on Evaluation and Standards of the American Public Health Association during the 1950s. He testified at a panel discussion that was used as evidence for the congressional hearings on polio vaccine in 1962. During these hearings he elaborated on the problems associated with polio statistics and disputed claims for the vaccine's effectiveness. He attributed the dramatic decline in polio cases to a change in reporting practices by physicians. Less cases were identified as polio after the vaccination for very specific reasons. 
 

Actual testimony: From Intensive Immunization Programs, Hearings before the Committee on Interstate & Foreign Commerce, House of Representatives, 87th Congress, 2nd Session on H.R. 10541, Wash DC: Us Government Printing Office, 1962; p. 96-97 

 

 

 

Quote:
...."Prior to 1954 any physician who reported paralytic poliomyelitis was doing his patient a service by way of subsidizing the cost of hospitalization and was being community-minded in reporting a communicable disease. The criterion of diagnosis at that time in most health departments followed the World Health Organization definition: "Spinal paralytic poliomyelitis: signs and symptoms of nonparalytic poliomyelitis with the addition of partial or complete paralysis of one or more muscle groups, detected on two examinations at least 24 hours apart." Note that "two examinations at least 24 hours apart" was all that was required. Laboratory confirmation and presence of residual paralysis was not required. In 1955 the criteria were changed to conform more closely to the definition used in the 1954 field trials: residual paralysis was determined 10 to 20 days after onset of illness and again 50 to 70 days after onset.... This change in definition meant that in 1955 we started reporting a new disease, namely, paralytic poliomyelitis with a longer-lasting paralysis. Furthermore, diagnostic procedures have continued to be refined. Coxsackie virus infections and aseptic meningitis have been distinguished from paralytic poliomyelitis. Prior to 1954 large numbers of these cases undoubtedly were mislabeled as paralytic poliomyelitis. Thus, simply by changes in diagnostic criteria, the number of paralytic cases was predetermined to decrease in 1955-1957, whether or not any vaccine was used. 

 

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Those quotes are surely over 100 words.  

 

I really hate watching videos.  Isnt' there something I can read instead?

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#27 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 11:32 AM
 
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So what are the numbers of coxsackie virus and aseptic meningitis?  Do cases of these diseases add up to the kinds of numbers we saw for polio in the first half of the 1900's?  They certainly don't seem to follow the same kind of patterns in terms of sudden onset in large numbers of children in a community, but I haven't really gone looking for the coxsackie quarantines, either.

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I got about four minutes in and the audio cut out (?) but she hadn't gotten to anything about polio yet.  Just on and on and on about vaccines and how she never liked them and now she makes her living writing about them.

 

Can someone give me a time for when she really starts talking about polio so I can skip to it?  I really don't have an hour to spend listening to the same old same old.

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#29 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 12:03 PM
 
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OK, I got through 15 minutes.  Whew.  Finally started talking about polio at about minute 5.  I really don't have any more time to waste on this today.  So far nothing to debunk, just a lot of claims along the lines of "everything you've ever known is wrong!!"  I could of course find loads of resources contradicting her, but that's the point, right?  Everyone has it wrong but her.

 

I just want to say a couple of things:

 

The fact that polio is asymptomatic in 95% of cases is irrelevant to whether we should vaccinate for it.  Ok, not irrelevant, but kind of misleading, maybe.  Asymptomatic cases are still spreading the illness, which is why it's important to prevent everyone from getting the disease.  During an epidemic thousands of people, mostly children, would die from polio and even more would be left crippled.  Even if some of those were misdiagnosed (which I admit they almost certainly were), polio was a serious disease.

 

I don't think polio justifies all vaccinations, I think that's a strawman.  I think todays vaccines stand on their own track record of safety and effectiveness (as exhibited by the graphic in the op) but of course I know some people will disagree with that.

 

She claimed the largest polio outbreak was in 1950 (maybe I misheard), but I don't think that's accurate.  I think the outbreak in 1916 was bigger, but certainly they were both awful.  In 1916 around 25% of people died.  that dropped later to around 5% when it began being detected earlier and better supportive care.  (ETA: I just looked this up, the 1952 epidemic infected more people (~58k cases and ~3k dead) but the 1916 epidemic killed more people (~6k dead))

 

There's some playing fast and loose with her graphs (over 50 of which can be found in her book), distorting vertical scales and the like.  That's to be expected, I guess.

 

Her main claim, so far, seems to be that polio was a hoax.  That everyone was tricked into being scared by the march of dimes and similar groups.  I don't really know what to say about that.  She takes the kernel of truth (that we used to consider a lot of things "polio" that really weren't, that seems plausible or even probably) and then takes it to this extreme.  Again, I could find lots of experts who disagreed with her, but as is the nature of these things they wouldn't sway anyone because they're either a) in on it or b) just not smart enough to figure it out like she was.

 

I don't know if I'll be able to get around to watching the rest of this or not.  Like I said, I really hate watching videos.  the focused attention it requires is just too much for me.  I'd be interested in some resources I could read instead, if anyone would like to provide some.  I find this whole topic sickly fascinating, like watching a train wreck.

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#30 of 57 Old 02-21-2013, 12:06 PM
 
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One more thing to add, polio is not gone.  Fortunately it has been eradicated from this country (for now), but it still infects people in other parts of the world.  In 1988 there were around 350,000 cases of polio world wide.  I guess the conspiracy is ongoing.

 

I found this really interesting, from wiki:

 

 

 

Quote:
The World Health Organization estimates that there are 10 to 20 million polio survivors worldwide.[97] In 1977 there were 254,000 persons living in the United States who had been paralyzed by polio.[98] According to doctors and local polio support groups, some 40,000 polio survivors with varying degrees of paralysis live in Germany, 30,000 in Japan, 24,000 in France, 16,000 in Australia, 12,000 in Canada and 12,000 in the United Kingdom.[97]Many notable individuals have survived polio and often credit the prolonged immobility and residual paralysis associated with polio as a driving force in their lives and careers.[99]

 

 

And then the list of notable survivors of polio is really interesting, too.  Not bad for a made up disease.

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