Shocking revelation about formaldehyde in pears - it's 120 times more than in a vaccine! - Page 5 - Mothering Forums

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#121 of 139 Old 03-27-2013, 08:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by MamaMunchkin View Post

According to:
Formaldehyde and Other Aldehydes
National Research Council
page 77, table 5-15
http://archive.org/stream/formaldehydeando003763mbp#page/n87/mode/2up

From the above source:

No formaldehyde in pears.

 

Aldehydes in pears are:
- acetaldehyde CH3CHO
- propanal CH3CH2CHO
- 2-hexenal
 

Thanks for that. Interesting list. Looks like there is formaldehyde in other fruits however. I still want to know how the body identifies and process synthetic vs naturally occurring. I am not convinced that it is in the same way. Also the difference between the body naturally producing something and injecting a synthetic version of the substance into the body vs inhaling the gaseous emissions. We all know inhaled formaldehyde is toxic. The off gassing from treated furniture and building materials is concerning so I can't imagine that injecting this is perfectly safe either.


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#122 of 139 Old 03-27-2013, 09:48 AM
 
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The formaldehyde from treated furniture etc is very different than the formaldehyde your body produces and what vaccines contain.
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#123 of 139 Old 03-27-2013, 10:13 AM
 
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The formaldehyde from treated furniture etc is very different than the formaldehyde your body produces and what vaccines contain.

Perhaps you could provide us with a nice breakdown of each form of formaldehyde from each source and how each form from each source is recognized and processed by the body. That is basically what I said I was interested in didn't I? . I'm aware the formaldehyde from furniture is different than what the body produces. 

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#124 of 139 Old 03-27-2013, 10:49 AM
 
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Ok. It seemed like you were equating the two.

You should check out the inside vaccines link that's already been posted twice. They have a good run down on formaldehyde.
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#125 of 139 Old 03-27-2013, 11:33 AM
 
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Ok. It seemed like you were equating the two.

You should check out the inside vaccines link that's already been posted twice. They have a good run down on formaldehyde.

Yes I have already. doesn't really answer my question specifically but It seems to be that in fact the body does not distinguish between different synthetic forms of formaldehyde although exposure via certain routes are more toxic than others. I also can find NO studies about injecting formaldehyde as opposed to multiple studies on the toxicity of inhalation, ingestion and dermatologic routes of exposure. Why is that?  

If anyone has time check this out:

 

http://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/roc/twelfth/2009/november/formaldehyde_bd_final.pdf

 

 

 

This seems concerning:

 

 

Quote:
Genetic and related effects: Formaldehyde is a direct-acting genotoxic compound that affects multiple gene expression pathways, including those involved in DNA synthesis and repair and regulation of cell proliferation. … In vitro studies with mammalian and human cells were positive for DNA adducts, DNA-protein crosslinks, DNA-DNA crosslinks, unscheduled DNA synthesis, single-strand breaks, mutations, and cytogenetic effects (chromosomal aberrations, sister chromatid exchange, and micronucleus induction).

DNA Adducts:  a DNA adduct is a piece of DNA covalently bonded to a (cancer-causing) chemical. This process could be the start of a cancerous cell, or carcinogenesis

 

Bottom line for me - whats used in vaccines is formalin. Its just an aqueous solution of formaldehyde. 

 

In view of its widespread use, toxicity and volatility, exposure to formaldehyde is a significant consideration for human health.[4]In 2011, the US National Toxicology Program described formaldehyde as "known to be a human carcinogen".[5][6][7]

 

Let me break it down. You all can go on bickering about pears vs formalin and other synthetic forms of formaldehyde but here's the deal IMO based on my reading and research -THE SHIT IS TOXIC. So for all you "the poison is in the dose" folks - go ahead and feel good about injecting tiny amounts into your child - I will avoid all forms of this chemical to the best of my ability. thumb.gif carry on. I'm out!

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#126 of 139 Old 10-15-2015, 09:30 AM
 
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2854756/?report=classic

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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post
How about 16/600 ounces water mixed with a bit if salt - or the saline injection you all bring up as the desired placebo....?
Formaldehyde Exposure and Asthma in Children: A Systematic Review

Results indicate a significant positive association between formaldehyde exposure and childhood asthma. Given the largely cross-sectional nature of the studies underlying this meta-analysis, further well-designed prospective epidemiologic studies are needed
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#127 of 139 Old 10-15-2015, 10:11 AM
 
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Formaldehyde Exposure and Asthma in Children: A Systematic Review

Results indicate a significant positive association between formaldehyde exposure and childhood asthma. Given the largely cross-sectional nature of the studies underlying this meta-analysis, further well-designed prospective epidemiologic studies are needed
That study is about long term exposure to formaldehyde. The dose makes the poison.

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#128 of 139 Old 10-15-2015, 04:58 PM
 
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The dose makes the poison.
Formalin in vaccines isn't one of the ingredients I'm concerned over.

But I think that "the dose makes the poison" is one of the stupider pro-vaccine arguments, especially in light of the horrific effects of lead in doses so tiny as to be unimaginably small. This horrific effects, of course, are at their worst for the fetus and tiny infants, but the problems continue all the way through childhood and there is no evidence that even tiny doses of lead are okay for adults, either.

So far, proper research about the effects of mercury salts on the fetus and infant haven't been conducted. No Needleman has come forward to risk his career, and undergo endless years of attacks, so vaccine enthusiasts can keep claiming there is a "safe" form of mercury, alas.

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#129 of 139 Old 10-15-2015, 05:04 PM
 
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All of the above applies to aluminum.

And to adventitious contaminants.

Etc.
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#130 of 139 Old 10-15-2015, 08:17 PM
 
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Formalin in vaccines isn't one of the ingredients I'm concerned over.

But I think that "the dose makes the poison" is one of the stupider pro-vaccine arguments, especially in light of the horrific effects of lead in doses so tiny as to be unimaginably small. This horrific effects, of course, are at their worst for the fetus and tiny infants, but the problems continue all the way through childhood and there is no evidence that even tiny doses of lead are okay for adults, either.

So far, proper research about the effects of mercury salts on the fetus and infant haven't been conducted. No Needleman has come forward to risk his career, and undergo endless years of attacks, so vaccine enthusiasts can keep claiming there is a "safe" form of mercury, alas.
It's not a stupid argument. It is a factual statement.

About lead from the CDC:

"No safe blood lead level in children has been identified. Even low levels of lead in blood have been shown to affect IQ, ability to pay attention, and academic achievement. And effects of lead exposure cannot be corrected." http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/ACCLPP/...ead_levels.htm

The key word here is blood level. So in other words, by the time lead is detectible in blood, that level is too high. The amount was high enough that your liver could not take care of it. That does not mean there is no safe level of lead. As an extreme example, an atom of lead would not harm you.

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#131 of 139 Old 10-15-2015, 10:24 PM
 
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That study is about long term exposure to formaldehyde. The dose makes the poison.
vaccines are given long term - therefore it is valid - you think one vaccine is given at birth and that's it ?
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#132 of 139 Old 10-16-2015, 04:28 AM
 
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vaccines are given long term - therefore it is valid - you think one vaccine is given at birth and that's it ?
No.

Did you read the link? It was about children being exposed long term to formaldehyde via carpets, furniture, etc. Not comparable to vaccines.

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#133 of 139 Old 10-16-2015, 05:39 AM
 
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Originally Posted by teacozy View Post
It's not a stupid argument. It is a factual statement.

About lead from the CDC:

"No safe blood lead level in children has been identified. Even low levels of lead in blood have been shown to affect IQ, ability to pay attention, and academic achievement. And effects of lead exposure cannot be corrected." http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/lead/ACCLPP/...ead_levels.htm

The key word here is blood level. So in other words, by the time lead is detectible in blood, that level is too high. The amount was high enough that your liver could not take care of it. That does not mean there is no safe level of lead. As an extreme example, an atom of lead would not harm you.
Lead is unnecessary in the human body. Babies and fetuses shouldn't be exposed to lead. "Safe" level is not a meaningful term for lead, aluminum compounds or mercury compounds.

As I said, unfortunately no Needleman has put his/her career on the line to sort out the mercury exposure problem. Aluminum is being handled pretty well by Exley, fortunately, and he is not afraid to speak up about aluminum salts in vaccines.

The dose makes the poison is really old science. I think the vaccine enthusiasts should find something to spout that doesn't come from Paracelsus (1493-1541). "He was an alchemist, physician, botanist, and astrologer." http://www.egs.edu/library/paracelsus/biography/

It is actually pretty cute that the pro-vaccine are quoting an alchemist and astrologer! Keep it up!
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#134 of 139 Old 10-16-2015, 08:19 AM
 
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@Deborah , a safe level does not mean it is beneficial, just that it doesn't cause harm. Two totally different things.

You can argue the point all you like but it is factually true that anything can be safe in small enough dosages and anything can be harmful in large enough ones.

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#135 of 139 Old 10-16-2015, 09:28 AM
 
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@Deborah , a safe level does not mean it is beneficial, just that it doesn't cause harm. Two totally different things.

You can argue the point all you like but it is factually true that anything can be safe in small enough dosages and anything can be harmful in large enough ones.
Great!

You will admit that the "safe" level of lead dropped dramatically following Needleman's research. Do you know of anyone who advocates, at this point, exposing a fetus or infant or toddler to lead? Based on there being, as you say, a safe level of exposure, of course.

The research simply hasn't been done to figure out if there is a "safe" level of exposure to aluminum salts in vaccines or other sources for the fetus, infant or toddler. Ditto mercury compounds. Instead we get people spouting a statement from hundreds of years ago from an astrologer and alchemist.

The level of science being offered is pathetic. No other word for it.
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#136 of 139 Old 10-16-2015, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So part of your argument is that science that was discovered hundreds of years ago and continues to fit with all the evidence should be dismissed.

That seems like an odd thing to object to.

You also appear to still be equating "not dangerous" and "beneficial" which @teacozy already pointed out was wrong.
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#137 of 139 Old 10-16-2015, 10:21 AM
 
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So part of your argument is that science that was discovered hundreds of years ago and continues to fit with all the evidence should be dismissed.

That seems like an odd thing to object to.

You also appear to still be equating "not dangerous" and "beneficial" which @teacozy already pointed out was wrong.
All the evidence?

The dose makes the poison basically came from a medical system that used incredibly toxic drugs and if the patient didn't die immediately...success!

It turned into such outstanding achievements as the mercury cure for syphilis...

Was used for many years to justify exposure of millions of people to lead in paint, gasoline and more...

Track record? Not too great.

Currently it is being used to claim that it is okay to expose a fetus to aluminum on the basis that we don't yet know for sure that it is dangerous.
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#138 of 139 Old 10-16-2015, 10:23 AM
 
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Honestly, I am not overly worried about formaldehyde in vaccines. It does not top the list of concerns with regards to ingredients.



That being said, I think the idea that we should not worry about the level of formaldehyde, aluminum, mercury, etc in vaccines because the "dose makes the poison" is silly. The does makes the poison simply means that more mercury is worse than less mercury. It does not mean that low levels are safe. Some ingredients are sufficiently toxic that even very, very small quantities can harm you. Some are so benign, that it would take huge quantities to harm you.



What we need to know is the safe daily, weekly, monthly level of xyz in people of a specific age, and if the item (vaccines) contain more than the safe level. If we want to be the most prudent - we should also take into account background levels. Aluminum, for example, is in both breastmilk and formula, and a baby has to eat.....ideally we want the total daily aluminum to be under the safe level from all sources.




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#139 of 139 Old 10-16-2015, 10:25 AM
 
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Now there is an approach to "background levels" which could actually accomplish something.
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