Vaccines that can be Administered During Pregnancy - Mothering Forums

 
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#1 of 26 Old 03-17-2013, 05:45 PM - Thread Starter
 
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http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/776783_3

 

scary and ridiculous

 

flu

dtap

hep a&b

pneumovax

meningococcal

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#2 of 26 Old 03-17-2013, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Tdap vaccine: Because the US prevalence of pertussis is increasing, the new recommendation is that adolescents receive the vaccine, as well as women during each pregnancy. This should improve protection of newborns from the morbidity and potential mortality of pertussis before they can safely be vaccinated with DTaP. However, data are limited on the safety and efficacy of multiple Tdap doses, and the AAP is reviewing available information before publishing a policy statement on whether it is appropriate to give additional Tdap doses in subsequent pregnancies.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/778333?src=wnl_edit_medn_wir&uac=168814CK&spon=34

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#3 of 26 Old 03-17-2013, 06:15 PM
 
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I'll have to dig up that ACIP link again. I posted it some time ago. It's the one stating that a drawback to vaccinating pregnant women is the lack of science justifying it.

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor
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#4 of 26 Old 03-17-2013, 06:32 PM
 
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This conversation happened very recently. Depending on the vaccine, there can be quite a bit of research showing vaccination during pregnancy is safe.
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#5 of 26 Old 03-17-2013, 06:34 PM
 
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Heres the CDC page, for people who are into that kind of thing.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/preg-guide.htm#flu1
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#6 of 26 Old 03-17-2013, 06:51 PM
 
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Here's more detailed info on repeat tdap each pregnancy, specifically.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6207a4.htm
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#7 of 26 Old 03-17-2013, 07:52 PM
 
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The thing I always wonder about getting vaccines while pregnant is what happens if the fetus has some sort of reaction to the vaccine? Everything is getting passed through the placenta, so there's no real way to know if there's something in a vaccine that the fetus will react to. At least if you vaccinate your baby (after birth of course), doctors can do something to treat a reaction (sometimes), but while in the womb there really isn't anything a doctor can do.

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#8 of 26 Old 03-17-2013, 07:58 PM
 
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That's interesting. I never thought of that.
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#9 of 26 Old 03-17-2013, 08:01 PM - Thread Starter
 
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A theoretical risk exists for severe local reactions (e.g., Arthus reactions, whole limb swelling) for pregnant women who have multiple closely spaced pregnancies. Arthus reactions and whole limb swelling are hypersensitivity reactions that have been associated with vaccines containing tetanus toxoid, tetanus and diphtheria toxoids, and/or pertussis antigens.

How do we know other things aren't swelling up in the mom, like the baby's brain?  

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Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

Here's more detailed info on repeat tdap each pregnancy, specifically.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6207a4.htm

 

 

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ACIP concluded that experience with tetanus-toxoid containing vaccines suggests no excess risk for severe adverse events for women receiving Tdap with every pregnancy. ACIP stated the need for safety studies of severe adverse events when Tdap is given during subsequent pregnancies. Plans for safety monitoring in pregnant women following Tdap administration include enhanced monitoring in Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) and utilizing the Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) to assess acute adverse events, adverse pregnancy outcomes affecting the mother, and birth outcomes; assessing risks for rare adverse events in pregnant women after Tdap will require data collection for several years (31).

So not many plans or safety studies in place rite now, or what?  

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#10 of 26 Old 03-18-2013, 05:22 AM
 
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There have been post licensing safety studies for various vaccines during pregnancy. They specifically cite the need for studies of severe reactions because these reactions are so rare it's difficult to find an accurate rate for them with most studies.

I suppose (although this is way above my pay grade) there is an assumption that an adverse event in the baby like encephalitis would show up in external signs like heart rate, decreased movement, or things after baby is born. I'm sure that wont get traction with some folks, because it seems there's a philosophy that there are many undiagnosed vaccine reactions.
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#11 of 26 Old 03-18-2013, 06:44 AM
 
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I beg to differ - there are no longterm studies. Which study exactly followed up all infants born to vaccinated mothers up to 18 years? Which study followed up counting things such as ADHD, allergies, schizophrenia, ASDs, cancers, immunodeficiancies, and so on? None. There is good reason to follow up for that long, considering e.g. flu vaccines trigger CRP. And who followed up mothers who were pregnant every 18 months and then got TDaP every 18 months? Methinks nobody. The safety is not established.

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#12 of 26 Old 03-18-2013, 07:31 AM
 
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I beg to differ - there are no longterm studies. Which study exactly followed up all infants born to vaccinated mothers up to 18 years? Which study followed up counting things such as ADHD, allergies, schizophrenia, ASDs, cancers, immunodeficiancies, and so on? None. There is good reason to follow up for that long, considering e.g. flu vaccines trigger CRP. And who followed up mothers who were pregnant every 18 months and then got TDaP every 18 months? Methinks nobody. The safety is not established.

I was "told" in another thread this doesn't matter! They end up in managed care and clinical studies, REGARDLESS if a reaction is documented or not. eyesroll.gif


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#13 of 26 Old 03-18-2013, 08:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

This conversation happened very recently. Depending on the vaccine, there can be quite a bit of research showing vaccination during pregnancy is safe.

 

There "can be?"  Really?

Oh, wait, no. Not really.  THERE HAS BEEN NO INDEPENDENT SHOWING VACCINATION DURING PREGNANCY IS SAFE.

 

There doesn't even seem to be a vaccine company that has dared to ask (and study), "hey, since vaccines cause neurological problems like tics and developmental delays, seizure disorders, brain damage, etc, should we look at rates of those issues in 3-6-year-olds whose mothers were vaccinated during pregnancy?"

 

No, they just looked at the complications rate for labor/delivery and neonates.  

"Well, the baby was born, and has all his fingers and toes, so everything must be good!"

 

There is, of course, evidence that administration of the flu vaccine during pregnancy resulted in a huge spike of miscarriage rates.  The vaccine companies don't like to mention these things, though. Might scare people off from buying their product.

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#14 of 26 Old 03-18-2013, 09:10 AM
 
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I said there can be because I haven't looked at every single vaccine to see if it's the case. I know there's a fair amount for tdap and flu, but I would have to look at the others to be sure.

I know it's not up to your standards, taxi, but it does exist.
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Could you point me to the evidence of a huge spike in miscarriage rates? I'm interested in seeing it.
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#16 of 26 Old 03-18-2013, 09:36 AM
 
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I said there can be because I haven't looked at every single vaccine to see if it's the case. I know there's a fair amount for tdap and flu, but I would have to look at the others to be sure.

I know it's not up to your standards, taxi, but it does exist. This statements sounds very belittling!

Rrrrrachel when you were pregnant (don't know how many times) - what vaccines did you get? I know personal/antidotal is not real science but since us other moms are concerned I see this as a valid question - you weren't concerned and everything was just fine?

If you did get- what and at what month?

might help the rest of us have a better perspective  


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Rrrrrachel when you were pregnant (don't know how many times) - what vaccines did you get? I know personal/antidotal is not real science but since us other moms are concerned I see this as a valid question - you weren't concerned and everything was just fine? If you did get- what and at what month? might help the rest of us have a better perspective

 

I'm not Rrrrrachel, but I was asked by my midwives (a group of hospital-based CNMs) to get a flu shot, and specifically to get the preservative-free, single-vial version. This was in my third trimester, I want to say week 33 or so? ...I didn't get any other vaccines during pregnancy, but I got a TDaP booster postpartum, while I was breastfeeding.

My daughter is now 15 months old, and everything seems to be fine so far. I'll try to remember to report back to you guys once she turns 18. ;)

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I wasn't asked to get any vaccines. At the time the recommendation for tdap was immediately after the baby was born and that's what I did. I almost got a flu shot (it would've been my first one ever!), but the pharmacist have me a shpeal about thimerosal and I didn't know any better so I didn't. I know a lot more about vaccines now than I did then.

I am by no means trying to tell pregnant women that everything is hunkidory and there's nothing to worry about. It's a personal decision that every woman should make for herself, hopefully in consultation with a health care provider. I'm just pointing out that there is research pointing to the safety of vaccines in pregnancy. I assume women can assess the quality of that research and weigh the risks vs benefits themselves.
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#19 of 26 Old 03-18-2013, 03:17 PM
 
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 but the pharmacist have me a shpeal about thimerosal and I didn't know any better so I didn't. 
 

 

in English please- what does this part of your sentence mean?

 

Are you attempting saying the pharmacist (uninformed I am assuming?) was concerned about thimerosal and talked you out of getting the vaccine?


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#20 of 26 Old 03-18-2013, 03:24 PM
 
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in English please- what does this part of your sentence mean?

Are you attempting saying the pharmacist (uninformed I am assuming?) was concerned about thimerosal and talked you out of getting the vaccine?

The pharmacist said something along the lines of "our flu vaccine contains thimerosal, some people believe it can cause birth defects." Like I said, I didn't know anything else about it at the time. My husband was at that very moment at urgent care getting fluids for his own case of flu, so I was pretty sure I had already been exposed. So I decided to skip it.
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#21 of 26 Old 03-18-2013, 04:22 PM
 
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The pharmacist said something along the lines of "our flu vaccine contains thimerosal, some people believe it can cause birth defects."

So ti's not just us uninformed on here that think this way, degreed pharmacists spout this dribble too! drool.gif

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#22 of 26 Old 03-18-2013, 04:46 PM
 
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H said some people think it causes birth defects. Not that he did or that any research showed it did. But yes, an advanced degree doesn't exempt you from spouting dribble.
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#23 of 26 Old 03-18-2013, 07:40 PM
 
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 Depending on the profitability of the vaccine, there can be quite a bit of manufacturer-funded, manufacturer-designed, manufacturer-interpreted, and manufacturer-marketed "research" published by manufacturer-funded journals showing vaccination during pregnancy is safe.  Meanwhile, any research showing safety problems is promptly buried by the manufacturers, or else not published by the manufacturer-funded journals.

 

I fixed that for you! smile.gif

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#24 of 26 Old 03-20-2013, 02:16 PM
 
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There's a huge list of links to studies of flu vaccines safety for pregnant women/unborn babies here: http://justthevax.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/covrac-guest-blog-influenza-vaccination.html

 

It ends with this summary: 

 

 

 

Quote:
[You may] fall back to quoting a vaccine package insert, but it's evident that such a document does not reflect the entirety of the world's research on a given vaccine. Influenza vaccination in pregnancy has been studied in abundance. A flu shot is safe during pregnancy (without a known medical contraindication), does not cause miscarriage, and protects the health of pregnant women and their babies.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences). Vaccines save lives.
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#25 of 26 Old 03-20-2013, 02:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel 
 
 Depending on the profitability of the vaccine, there can be quite a bit of manufacturer-funded, manufacturer-designed, manufacturer-interpreted, and manufacturer-marketed "research" published by manufacturer-funded journals showing vaccination during pregnancy is safe.  Meanwhile, any research showing safety problems is promptly buried by the manufacturers, or else not published by the manufacturer-funded journals.
 

I fixed that for you! smile.gif

Thank you, prosciencemum, for providing examples of manufacturer-funded studies published by manufacturer-funded journals.

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#26 of 26 Old 03-20-2013, 02:24 PM
 
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I kind of think they should be paying to check their vaccines are safe.... 

 

Doesn't mean they are lying - I think there are enough independent and moral scientists in the process to prevent that from being possible. 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences). Vaccines save lives.
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