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Old 03-22-2013, 07:52 PM
 
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I don't typically read links from the h
Bolen report, no. Especially not when I don't need to to realize the premise is silly.
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:53 PM
 
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Not to mention when I try to read the link 90% of it is covered with huge pop up ads/404 errors I can't close.
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:55 PM
 
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And I won't read any thing wrtitten by "Orac". Frankly, I am surprised you had the nerve to post his blog on here. 


t
 
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:59 PM
 
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I didn't expect you to read it, Mirzam. I hoped you would just skip it, frankly, but I thought some people might be interested. I don't see a reason in the world why I shouldn't post a link to that blog when things like the Bolen report get posted in a regular basis. Posters are perfectly capable of reading and deciding for themselves how large of a grain of salt they need to take with it.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:03 PM
 
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The link works fine for me, no errors or ads.


 
 
 "Medical propaganda ops are, in the long run, the most dangerous. They appear to be neutral. They wave no political banners. They claim to be science. For these reasons, they can accomplish the goals of overt fascism without arousing suspicion.” — Jon Rappoport
 
 
 
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:17 PM
 
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Yeah I'm sure it has to do with trying to read it from my ipad.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Mirzam View Post

Orac

 

So, who and what is a "David Gorski MD?"

 

 

Quote:
It is pretty clear here that we are dealing with a serious mental aberration.  What kind of person sets themselves up, and actually believes, that they are an infallible Oracle, and then presents themselves in public as one? 

 

 

Well, for starters, he never makes any claim to being infallible, and he's Orac, not Oracle.  

 

This is what he's named after:

 

 

Or as he puts it in his bio:  " That Orac has chosen his nom de blog based on a rather cranky and arrogant computer shaped like a clear box of blinking lights that he originally encountered when he became a fan of a 30 year old British SF television show whose special effects were renowned for their BBC/Doctor Who-style low budget look, but whose stories nonetheless resulted in some of the best, most innovative science fiction ever televised, should tell you nearly all that you need to know about Orac. (That, and the length of the preceding sentence.)"

 

 

But who.. I don't think I've ever read the Bolen report before.  Getting his name wrong was probably the least inaccurate thing on the entire page.  And OMG, speaking of nastiness:

 

 

 

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I've been wondering who would pick up the reins of the quackbuster  operation once Stephen Barrett croaks, which could be very soon.

 

 

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I set a trap for Bobbie in a case in Wisconsin, setting him up for a three day "credibility hearing," in the case he was testifying in.  That's the case where we have him crying on video tape... It got so bad he'd crawl under or over tables whenever I showed up at a hearing.  Before long, I'd guess, the powers that be (from New York?) must of decided that Royal Purple wasn't his color - and you don't hear much about Bobbie anymore.

 

Then  there are these lovely bits of irony/hypocrisy:

 

 

 

Quote:
Then there was Polevoy in Canada (insert rude noise).  Terry is kind of like the overactive kid vying for everybody's attention with bad behavior in a public place.  You know the one.  We all keep wondering why his mom doesn't just smack the little sh*t.  His website is a cheap carnival of brainless crap presented in garish colors and chaotic organization.  It is easy to get the impression that its author has mental problems.

 

 

Quote:
You can comb the search engines all day and find criticisms of David Gorski - some of them very angry.  For, it is obvious Gorski speaks in nasty tones, not criticizing, but openly demeaning others on subjects that Gorski has absolutely no expertise in - like autism. 
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:58 PM
 
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I finally was able to read it and I still have no idea how he went from orac to oracle.
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:05 PM
 
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Yeah I'm sure it has to do with trying to read it from my ipad.

Really?  I've never even seen a pop-up ad on an iPad before;  In fact, I thought they were immune to pop-up blockers.  I've certainly never gotten one from the Bolen report on any of my devices, not my computer, iPad, or phone.

 

Maybe it's a conspiracy against you.

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Old 03-22-2013, 10:08 PM
 
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I don't typically read links from the h
Bolen report, no. Especially not when I don't need to to realize the premise is silly.

Ah,nothing like keeping an open mind....

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Old 03-23-2013, 01:45 AM
 
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Ah,nothing like keeping an open mind....

I'm curious if this means you read the link rrrrrachel posted with an open mind.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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Old 03-23-2013, 06:09 AM
 
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Not so open it falls out!
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:36 AM
 
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Has anyone seen these articles in the news recently?

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/15/lead-poisoning-children-middle-class_n_2880619.html

 

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Howard Mielke, an expert in lead poisoning at Tulane University School of Medicine, noted that lead typically affects the prefrontal cortex of the brain -- the section that controls decision-making and compulsive behavior. Not surprisingly then, lead poisoning has been tied to everything from higher crime rates and lower test scores to attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and autism.

 

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Indeed, lead paint was durable. It was long-lasting. But now it is deteriorating, and creating what Rubin calls a "new wave of lead exposure from house paint that wasn't happening 10, 20, 30 years ago." This, of course, is in addition to the hazards posed by lead that has accumulated in soil after years of leaded gasoline exhaustion from cars, as well as years of painting and renovating. There is also lead in an array of products including pipes, crystal, shoes, jewelry and car keys.
 
"Remodeling and sanding and that type of activity among people like me, college educated, is one of biggest ways to get lead poisoning," said Angela Michelsen, also of Portland.
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:36 PM
 
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I'm curious if this means you read the link rrrrrachel posted with an open mind.

Well, I will tell you my mind closes right up to this stuff (same with the "pear" stuff) - when you see these type of links and you check (as many here DO!) where they are coming from, who is posting (and re-posting) and what type of sites they also appear on, it is not what appeals to most.

 

Are you thinking (and assuming the same of Rrrrrachel since she posts this stuff too) that somehow these links and (in the case of the pear thing) will change the minds on some?  ROTFLMAO.gif

Even the extremely undecided are insulted as to the degrading means the vaccine push side is resorting too.

 

 

You would better do some BETTER research- it's having the opposite effect.

And the opposite effects is just what the other PRO-vacers are reporting on the Pro-sites, seems the "pear" also did not go over well with others who re-posted it and got the same reaction as on here. 

 

IMO- this site is just turing into a platform for a set agenda, both of you are reposting at the same time with what is "popular" on the other PRO-sties, sad you both lack originality too. biglaugh.gif


 

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&

lurk.gif  PROUD member of the .3% club!

 

Want to join? Just ask me!

 

"You know, in my day we used to sit on our ass smoking Parliaments for nine months.

Today, you have one piece of Brie and everybody goes berserk."      ROTFLMAO.gif 

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Old 03-23-2013, 01:59 PM
 
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Here is a post by someone who actually crunched the raw data. His conclusion: autism is rising by each birth year.
 
 

 

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This paper is seeking to amend the conventional wisdom to allow for a large number of "milder" case to be diagnosed at a later age and for this group to account for a substantial portion of the autism population.

So, the question is then whether the data underlying this paper supports that idea or not.  To answer that question I pulled the underlying data from the 2011/2012 National Survey of Children's Health and did some analysis of the data.

 

 

 

 

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[t]he majority of children, about 82%, were diagnosed by the time they were eight years old, as is expected.  A simple back of the envelope calculation suggests that 1.6 of the 2% prevalence was diagnosed by age 8 which leaves 0.4% being diagnosed later in life, although that depends on what you mean by later in life.  If later in life means older than 8 that means the 18% of the population but if later in life means the teen-aged years (13 and up) then that means only 4% of the population.

Regardless, the idea that the majority of the 0.9 increase in autism prevalence is being cause by older children being missing simply doesn't hold water even under a generous reading of "older children".

 


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Old 03-29-2013, 07:24 PM
 
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Remember arguments from yester-month or yester-year?

 

Person A would say  "the real rate of autism is rising"   and Person B would counter with a study about how people in England went door to door and they found an average of 1/100 adults with autism upon screening?  For many this was "proof" autism was always with us and there is no real rise.  

 

Here is one  study:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6219201/One-in-100-adults-have-autism-research.html

 

 

"One in 100 adults has a form of autism – the same rate as in children – the first study of its kind has suggested."

 

I wonder what these people have to say about the new 1/50 number?  I wonder if we will now have people going door -to-door screeening for autism and claiming it it has always been about 1/50? (snort)


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 03-30-2013, 12:46 AM
 
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Have you checked the statistical errors on the 1/100 (1%) they reported? It was quite a small study if I recall, so 1/50 (2%) could also be consistent with what they found... Only needs a statistical error of 1%.

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Old 03-30-2013, 07:00 AM
 
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The study (according to the article I posted) looked at 4000 people.

 

If you have a link to the study, I would appreciate it.  I just spent 10 minutes on google looking for it to no avail.  

 

I never bought the study anyways  (under the heading of "if you look for things, you will find them")  but those who did believe autism has always been with us and in these numbers used to trot it out with some regualrity to "prove" their point.

 

ETA:  this article says the study looked at 7500 people - so either someone has their numbers wrong or it is a second study saying the prevalence in the adult population is 1%.  

 

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/more-evidence-for-vaccine-safety/

 

"However, despite these concerns, the NHS looked at 7,500 adults and found a prevalence of autism of about 1% in all age groups – the same as the current rate among children. This is consistent with the hypothesis that autism rates are in fact stable over time – not increasing."

 

All of this just makes me want to contact skeptic groups and see if they would like to eat crow. 

 

PSM, I find the statistical error thing a little weak.  Either people bought the study and have now been proved wrong, or they always knew the studies did not prove anything due to the margin of statistical error, yet did not bother to highlight this (until now…when they are appearing wrong), which is hardly good science.  Of course, maybe they did not bother to look at the study closely until it no longer matched what they were trying to say  - but that is hardly good science, either.  No matter which way you slice it, claiming " a prevalence of autism of about 1% in all age groups …. This is consistent with the hypothesis that autism rates are in fact stable over time – not increasing" means they have egg on their face as it seems 1/50 now have ASD.  

 

 

 


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 03-30-2013, 07:51 AM
 
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Measuring something like autism is not a precise science, Kathy.

Also, it's nice to see you posting more.
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:51 AM
 
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Good point Rrrrrachel - I enjoy discussing with you Kathy and have missed your contributions. smile.gif

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Old 03-30-2013, 11:09 AM
 
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If science is imprecise, and statistics can be used to demonstrate whatever point you want at the moment, why would anyone hide behind them and take pot shots at those who QUESTION the results?
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Old 03-30-2013, 11:27 AM
 
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Quote:
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Also, it's nice to see you posting more.

 

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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Good point Rrrrrachel - I enjoy discussing with you Kathy and have missed your contributions. smile.gif

smile.gif


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 03-30-2013, 03:09 PM
 
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Statistics cannot be used to illustrate whatever point. At least not if they're used correctly, an who's taking pot shots just because people question?
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Old 03-30-2013, 03:49 PM
 
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Read old threads. They contain the answers to your questions.
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Old 04-01-2013, 12:48 PM
 
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Whoops wrong thread.
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Old 05-11-2013, 09:26 PM
 
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Thank you Mirzam. Nice to meet another ASD parent who didn't vax. I was starting to feel like I was dying on the hill of "Just to be difficult!". lol

Checking out the links now. joy.gif

Another mom to an Autistic child who was not vaccinated until well after his dx.  I know of a few others that I met here, FTR.  


Mom to 10yo Autistic Wonder Boy and 6yo Inquisitive Fireball Girl . December birthdays.

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