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#31 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 10:34 AM
 
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Good catch. The world population is under 7 billion.
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#32 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 10:36 AM
 
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If we're talking about availability for children, yes, the number born a year is relevant. If you're changing the criteria to decide if there's enough for everyone in the us that obviously changes things.

 

 

I'm not changing criteria.  The topic is whether or not children receive thimerosal-preserved flu shots.

 

You can twist things all you want, but you're not convincing anybody that just because thimerosal-free flu shots exist, that necessarily means that those shots are being given to children and pregnant women.

 

It has been posted over and over again that most doctors are not giving thimerosal-free shots unless the patient specifically requests them--and even then, they are often charged more, because (obviously) those pre-loaded, single-use syringes are more expensive.

 

 

Are you somehow unaware that the thimerosal-free vaccines are not set aside as pediatric doses, but are available for all age groups who wish to avoid thimerosal?

 

Are you somehow unaware that many parents use pharmacies in Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, Walgreens, CVS, Rite-Aid, and even their grocery stores as family flu shot clinics?  And that those stores do not typically stock thimerosal-free flu shots, nor do they inform people that their flu shots are thimerosal-preserved?

 

Apparently, it means an awful lot to you to try to convince us that children aren't being injected with thimerosal-preserved flu shots, when of course, they are...

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#33 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 10:38 AM
 
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The US population is approximately 314 MILLION, not billion.

Good catch.  I will edit.

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#34 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 10:44 AM
 
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According to the CDC there are around 60 million doses of thim free flu vaccine a year.

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/qa/vaxsupply.htm

4 million people born a year . . . It's a shortage but not a huge one.

I'm not going to bicker about this anymore.

 

315 MILLION - 60 MILLION thimerosal free does, still does not equal a little bit-IMO

 

the US has 1/4 it's population under 20 and factor in pregnant women/those who plan to be- it equals shortage no matter how you spin it 

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#35 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 10:50 AM
 
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To clarify again, we were talking about children.
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#36 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 10:58 AM
 
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To clarify again, we were talking about children.

Are you under the false impression that only children receive thimersosal free flu vaccine?

 

I know a whole family of adults that asked and got it and none are of childbearing age.


 

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#37 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 11:05 AM
 
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If you think the general population of the us is more relevant for a variety of reasons, that's fine. Just say so. But I think my reason for phrasing it that way was reasonable. Reasonable people can disagree.
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#38 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 11:55 AM
 
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Are you under the false impression that only children receive thimersosal free flu vaccine?

 

 

No, she is trying to convince readers that children aren't really given thimerosal-preserved flu shots.shrug.gif

 

And to that end, she's trying to shift the focus to us, claiming that we are somehow changing the criteria, we think the general population of the us is more relevant than children, blah blah blah, instead of admitting that infants, children, and pregnant women are actually given thimerosal-preserved flu shots.

 

We've seen these tactics before.

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#39 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 12:51 PM
 
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Wtf taxi,they're not tactics. I'm not sitting in some secret strategy meeting every other Wednesday. It's impossible to have a discussion with this kind of tone.

Of course children infants and pregnant women get thimerosal preserved vaccines. My own child got one. My only point is THEY DONT HAVE TO.
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#40 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 01:01 PM
 
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No, she is trying to convince readers that children aren't really given thimerosal-preserved flu shots.shrug.gif

 

And to that end, she's trying to shift the focus to us, claiming that we are somehow changing the criteria, we think the general population of the us is more relevant than children, blah blah blah, instead of admitting that infants, children, and pregnant women are actually given thimerosal-preserved flu shots.

 

We've seen these tactics before.

of course she it! it happens in most every single thread winky.gif same old thing

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#41 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 01:21 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MissCee View Post

http://www.iom.edu/~/media/Files/Activity%20Files/PublicHealth/ImmunizationSafety/Lucier.pdf




Not sure if this has ever been posted here, but a friend shared this on Facebook and I wanted to share it on here. Despite this information, there were still a large amount of parents saying that the amount in vaccines is perfectly safe and/or that there is no thimerosal in most vaccines, which is also incorrect. Thimerosal can still be found in these vaccines:

- DTaP (Tripedia)
- Influenza (Afluria)
- Influenza (Fluvirin)
- Influenza (Flulaval)
- Influenza (Fluzone: Standard, High-Dose, & Intradermal)
- Meningococcal (MPSV4Menomune)
- Td (Decavac)
- Td (Mass Biologics)

The above is the original post. Although there are mentions of infants and children, it doesn't read to me that the poster is attempting to exclude adults, or focus primarily on children.

Rrrrrachel, it has been your focus, all along, to exclude adults, but I see no reason to do so. As an adult, if I want a safer vaccine, why shouldn't I be able to get it? There's not enough to go around.
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#42 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 01:24 PM
 
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Wtf taxi,they're not tactics. I'm not sitting in some secret strategy meeting every other Wednesday. It's impossible to have a discussion with this kind of tone.

Of course children infants and pregnant women get thimerosal preserved vaccines. My own child got one. My only point is THEY DONT HAVE TO.

And the point I made earlier is ... SOME children DO have to.
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#43 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just to clarify, I was NOT just talking about infants and children . . I only mentioned "parents" because I know a number of them still saying there is no thimerosal in vaccines.

 

I found this vaccine package insert for the Tripedia vaccine as well: http://www.fda.gov/downloads/biologicsbloodvaccines/vaccines/approvedproducts/ucm101580.pdf

 

 

 

Quote:
In the German case-control study and US open-label safety study in which 14,971 infants received Tripedia vaccine, 13 deaths in Tripedia vaccine recipients were reported. Causes of deaths included seven SIDS, and one of each of the following: enteritis, Leigh Syndrome, adrenogenital syndrome, cardiac arrest, motor vehicle accident, and accidental drowning. All of these events occurred more than two weeks post immunization.2 The rate of SIDS observed in the German case-control study was 0.4/1,000 vaccinated infants. The rate of SIDS observed in the US open-label safety study was 0.8/1,000 vaccinated infants and the reported rate of SIDS in the US from 1985-1991 was 1.5/1,000 live births.

 

 

Quote:
Adverse events reported during post-approval use of Tripedia vaccine include idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, SIDS, anaphylactic reaction, cellulitis, autism, convulsion/grand mal convulsion, encephalopathy, hypotonia, neuropathy, somnolence and apnea. Events were included in this list because of the seriousness or frequency of reporting.

 

I know it doesn't necessarily pertain to the thimerosal issue, but I thought it was interesting nonetheless.


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#44 of 55 Old 03-25-2013, 10:23 PM
 
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in Delaware they [] relaxed their law to allow pregnant women to NOT get the thirmerasol free - I had posted this in another section at the time
http://www.newsworks.org/index.php/local//healthscience/50003-in-face-of-flu-vaccine-shortage-delaware-relaxes-ban-on-thimerasol

Huh. Delaware has a law that states pregnant women and children under 8 must get the thimerosol free flu vaccine. Never knew that before. Any other states have this?

When did annual flu shots get put on the CDC recommended schedule for kids? I think it was quite recent right?

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#45 of 55 Old 03-26-2013, 04:19 AM
 
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Huh. Delaware has a law that states pregnant women and children under 8 must get the thimerosol free flu vaccine. Never knew that before. Any other states have this?

When did annual flu shots get put on the CDC recommended schedule for kids? I think it was quite recent right?

I don't know the exact date they went on for children (I want to say at least 5+ years) - http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/children.htm  ETA- it has to be longer, I do know a now 8 year old that had it as an infant.

 

 

 

Delaware is not alone, http://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/rpt/2010-R-0352.htm

 

 

As a precautionary measure, some states, including California, Delaware, Illinois, Missouri, New York, and Washington, have enacted legislation requiring the administration of vaccines containing no, or trace amounts of, thimerosal to infants, children, and pregnant women. Delaware and Illinois require the use of thimerosal-free vaccines; California, Missouri, New York, and Washington require vaccines to contain no more than trace amounts. Each state allows its health department to temporarily use thimerosal-containing vaccines if there is a public health emergency or vaccine shortage.

 
 
Maybe this will help you better understand what us in the US and on this thread(S) are really talking about.

 

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#46 of 55 Old 03-26-2013, 07:25 AM
 
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I don't know the exact date they went on for children (I want to say at least 5+ years) - http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/children.htm  ETA- it has to be longer, I do know a now 8 year old that had it as an infant.

 

 

 

Delaware is not alone, http://www.cga.ct.gov/2010/rpt/2010-R-0352.htm

 

 

As a precautionary measure, some states, including California, Delaware, Illinois, Missouri, New York, and Washington, have enacted legislation requiring the administration of vaccines containing no, or trace amounts of, thimerosal to infants, children, and pregnant women. Delaware and Illinois require the use of thimerosal-free vaccines; California, Missouri, New York, and Washington require vaccines to contain no more than trace amounts. Each state allows its health department to temporarily use thimerosal-containing vaccines if there is a public health emergency or vaccine shortage.

 
 
Maybe this will help you better understand what us in the US and on this thread(S) are really talking about.

And we have been told EVERY YEAR in the US that either that the flu is a public health emergency, or that it will be if we don't all get flu shots, or that there is a vaccine shortage.  

 

It's all snake oil.  Carefully marketed, thoroughly propagandized SNAKE OIL.  

It's flu.  Very few healthy, well-nourished people die of flu.  The Cochrane Review has said that even the vaccine industry's "studies" do not show evidence of benefit, particularly in vaccinating everyone else to protect those who are at risk for complications.

 

But the pharmaceutical industry is, year after year, able to convince the media to announce the threat of a (non-existent) public health flu emergency, or a shortage of (useless) flu vaccines, without EVER admitting the risks of those vaccines.  Remember, the TV commercials for medications that you see list the risks (in electronically sped-up voices so that you don't catch the details) at the very end of the commercial.  Apparently, though, they are not required to do so for vaccines.

 

And year after year, the media tells us of some obscure case where someone dies (supposedly) of the flu, right before these public health emergencies and flu clinics are announced.  The media NEVER mentions any of the cases of flu vaccine-induced brain damage, autoimmune disorder, paralysis, or death.

 

Snake oil and propaganda.

 

And, sadly, there are so many people who can't see it for what it is, and vehemently defend every single vaccine, including the flu shot, out of--fear? ignorance?  An inability to admit that they've been fooled?

 

I wonder how many people will have to be vaccine-injured, how many times vaccine manufacturers will have to be caught in lies about safety/efficacy of their products before enough people get it, enough to change the corrupt system that allows this to happen.

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#47 of 55 Old 03-26-2013, 02:53 PM
 
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This seemed relevent to the original topic on the difference between ethylmercury and methylmercury.

 

 

*


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#48 of 55 Old 03-26-2013, 04:52 PM
 
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This seemed relevent to the original topic on the difference between ethylmercury and methylmercury.

 

 

*

and we are to "think" you actually are in the science field!? biglaugh.gif yet, ANOTHER copy and paste FB memes PROsciencemum means PROpagandist for a memes! no substance 


 

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#49 of 55 Old 03-26-2013, 05:12 PM
 
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Is it necessary to be quite so personal?
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#50 of 55 Old 03-27-2013, 01:11 AM
 
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I agree it's a fb meme. Doesn't immediately mean there's no content or its not science. One of my favourite fb pages is "Science is Awesome".

I'll be happy to debate the content of what I posted, but I think the method of presentation is irrelevant personally.

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#51 of 55 Old 03-27-2013, 02:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I agree it's a fb meme. Doesn't immediately mean there's no content or its not science. One of my favourite fb pages is "Science is Awesome".

I'll be happy to debate the content of what I posted, but I think the method of presentation is irrelevant personally.

 

Really?

 

These memes don't even link to any source as to where this information is coming from besides a Facebook page. For anyone looking at this thread for information, I think that's really misleading for them. I don't care what side of the debate your on, it's important to use proper sources when you're saying whatever it is you're saying.

 

Also, this still doesn't address the fact that ethylmercury is a neurotoxin...it's not something the Institute of Medicine just made up for fun and they are certainly not just making up the consideration that ethylmercury is as potent as methylmercury as a developmental neurotoxin. 


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#52 of 55 Old 03-27-2013, 06:13 AM
 
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Take the memes for what they're worth. If you don't want to believe it without a source, don't.

Water in large enough quantities will kill you. The dose makes the poison.
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#53 of 55 Old 03-27-2013, 06:41 AM
 
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IMO when you align yourself with a group and promote their propaganda (5+ memes) directly taken from their site, that really shows where your true motives are and I don't view them as wanting/desiring true discussions.


 

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Most of the images from the Vaccine Meme Machine have links to primary source. This one didn't. But then all it's pointing out is that ethanol is not the same as methanol which suggests ethlymercury and methylmercury should be treated separately. I thought that was pretty basic high school chemistry to be honest. I just thought the image was a nice quick visualization of it. 

 

I agree that just because ethlymercury and methylmercury are not the same does not mean either are nice things. But many of the studies which are used to argue that ethylmercury (thimerosol) in vaccines must be harmful are either about methlymercury, or even worse metallic mercury. It's important that everyone reading these studies double check that point (as well as the dose, since the quantities in the flu vaccines which still contain thimerosol are tiny) before jumping to the conclusion that it's something to be worried about. 

 

Plus it's gone from the majority of vaccines. I honestly don't understand why it's still constantly brought up as a reason to not vaccinate..... 


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#55 of 55 Old 04-05-2013, 09:46 AM
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serenbat, I have already addressed your recent posting in a PM and I hope that I've clarified what is and is not permitted in this forum. While we allow some more direct personal statements, we don not allow accusations. If you wish to continue posting to this forum please stay with direct discussion of the topic posted. 


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