"Early Release" Adult Vaccination Schedule - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 12:28 PM
 
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Putting blind faith in ANYBODY about something as important as one's health is foolish IMO. Sorry if that is not what you are saying but it seems to me that you are saying just because you don't have a medical degree means that you choose to put the fate of your own health squarely in the hands of someone that does have a medical degree and will just trust everything they tell you. 

 

As I said to kathymuggle, I agree that Western medicine shouldn't be an all-or-nothing approach. But I think everyone has to make that decision for herself, based on her own lived experiences. Case in point, you...

 

My health improved DRASTICALLY when I stopped doing exactly what you suggest. 

 

...which is wonderful!  I'd like to hear more about the techniques that you found helpful.

 

For myself, I'm coming from a background where my family was frequently uninsured or underinsured, and even when we did have insurance, going to the doctor was often seen as "a waste of money" or "looking for attention."  :/ 

I'm THRILLED that I now have my own job, with my own (pretty good) health plan, and that I can share the privilege of preventative care (which yes, sometimes includes vaccines) with my spouse and child.  Those of you who live in countries with universal health care (like kathymuggle - not sure where you're coming from, Marnica) might not get what a big deal that is to me.

 

That being said, my health plan doesn't include a lot of coverage for "alternative" or "complementary" techniques, and my budget doesn't cover them out-of-pocket.  So maybe if I had that kind of background, and that kind of privilege, I might have a different view altogether.

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#32 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 12:33 PM
 
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...which is wonderful!  I'd like to hear more about the techniques that you found helpful.

 

For myself, I'm coming from a background where my family was frequently uninsured or underinsured, and even when we did have insurance, going to the doctor was often seen as "a waste of money" or "looking for attention."  :/ 

I'm THRILLED that I now have my own job, with my own (pretty good) health plan, and that I can share the privilege of preventative care (which yes, sometimes includes vaccines) with my spouse and child.  Those of you who live in countries with universal health care (like kathymuggle - not sure where you're coming from, Marnica) might not get what a big deal that is to me.

 

That being said, my health plan doesn't include a lot of coverage for "alternative" or "complementary" techniques, and my budget doesn't cover them out-of-pocket.  So maybe if I had that kind of background, and that kind of privilege, I might have a different view altogether.

I'm in the US

 

In any case I totally get what you are saying and perhaps may have misinterpreted your initial statement??  I appreciate that you are grateful to now have the means to provide preventative care for your family. I don't see that that has to mean that you blindly put faith in someone merely because they have a medical degree. You can still take an active role in your own health by researching and looking for alternatives no? 


If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#33 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 12:42 PM
 
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I got vaccinated for everything we have vaccines for, with the exceptions of BCG, cholera and smallpox, in order to serve in the Peace Corps. I definitely plan to keep up on boosters, especially varicella, since it sounds like how immunity was maintained in the past was by being regularly exposed to pox-y kids. I don't see what the big deal is here. More boosters are needed than we used to think.

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#34 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 01:20 PM
 
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I got vaccinated for everything we have vaccines for, with the exceptions of BCG, cholera and smallpox, in order to serve in the Peace Corps. I definitely plan to keep up on boosters, especially varicella, since it sounds like how immunity was maintained in the past was by being regularly exposed to pox-y kids. I don't see what the big deal is here. More boosters are needed than we used to think.

The big deal is that many of us, and/or many of our children, are having adverse reactions to the vaccines.  These reactions often go unrecognized and unreported; therefore, they don't show up in safety tracking.

 

We are all aware of the common mild reactions:  redness and swelling at the injection site, fussiness, maybe a little fever.

 

But there is growing evidence (including admissions and settlements by the US government) that vaccines are causing or at list triggering a long list of health problems, including seizure disorders, brain damage, lupus, MS, paralytic conditions (including Guilliane-Barr), rheumatoid arthritis, asthma, thyroid disease, long-term intestinal disorders, food allergies, severe skin conditions, and other autoimmune disorders.

 

And because of the exponentially increasing number of vaccines required, the incidence of these disorders has skyrocketed.

 

Oh, and the US government admitted and settled two cases of vaccine-induced autism just this year.

 

That's what the big deal is here.  Some of us here have experienced these reactions, and some of us here have had children who have experienced these reactions.  One MDC member lost his daughter to a vaccine reaction.  It's a very big deal, and those who have had the reactions don't feel that they were adequately warned of the risks (because, well, those risks are never EVER mentioned).

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#35 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 01:43 PM
 
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I'm in the US

 

In any case I totally get what you are saying and perhaps may have misinterpreted your initial statement??  I appreciate that you are grateful to now have the means to provide preventative care for your family. I don't see that that has to mean that you blindly put faith in someone merely because they have a medical degree. You can still take an active role in your own health by researching and looking for alternatives no? 

 

Of course! But I don't think I have the resources to research that, for example, a huge university like Columbia, Pitt or UMDNJ does.   It would be arrogant for me to assume that my little Googling fingers could equal 8 years of med school, internship, residency, etc.

 

And I would like it if my health plan (or even my FSA) covered more "alternatives", but they often don't.  (I'm currently trying to get my FSA to pay for yoga classes - let's see what happens there...)

 

I don't want to derail the thread, but I had previously asked you about the non-Western, non-vaccine techniques that you said improved your life "drastically".  Care to elaborate?

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#36 of 53 Old 04-02-2013, 01:49 PM
 
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That being said, my health plan doesn't include a lot of coverage for "alternative" or "complementary" techniques, and my budget doesn't cover them out-of-pocket.  So maybe if I had that kind of background, and that kind of privilege, I might have a different view altogether.

Most complementary and alternative health are not covered where I live. 

 

I do not think you have to by into (literally or otherwise!) alternative medicine to not vax.

 

I cannot remember the last time I went to an alternative care provider.....

 

I do think privilege can come into play in other vaccine issues (are you able and can you afford to take time off work? - is one) and I think health is a privilge too (I am in good health and not really worried about catching things).  


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#37 of 53 Old 04-03-2013, 07:03 AM
 
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Of course! But I don't think I have the resources to research that, for example, a huge university like Columbia, Pitt or UMDNJ does.   It would be arrogant for me to assume that my little Googling fingers could equal 8 years of med school, internship, residency, etc.

 

And I would like it if my health plan (or even my FSA) covered more "alternatives", but they often don't.  (I'm currently trying to get my FSA to pay for yoga classes - let's see what happens there...)

 

I don't want to derail the thread, but I had previously asked you about the non-Western, non-vaccine techniques that you said improved your life "drastically".  Care to elaborate?

I'm not trying to be difficult here - I really just don't get this mentality. I don't think that I have more knowledge than someone who spend 8 years getting a medical degree but that won't stop me from researching the crap out of something before I make a decision about it. That's not arrogance, It's called taking responsibility for one's own health. I have access to libraries and the internet. I do the best I can with the resources I have. 

 

As for many alternatives not being covered by insurance - yes this is a real problem and I think it's a travesty. I think slowly more and more insurance companies are starting to cover more alternative modalaties because there is more of a demand for them. I do appreciate this fact and am no stranger to being in debt to pay for uncovered alternative medical care. Some of these things are a very high priority of me and my family. I have several large bills I am making payments on because I couldn't afford to pay up front. It sucks, but it's a choice Ive made. There are also things I have had to forgo all together because I can't afford them - that also sucks no doubt about it.

 

As for my own personal things I have used to improve my health  - If you are actually really interested, I'd be happy to share, but don't want to derail the thread even further. I can PM you if you'd like. 

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If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#38 of 53 Old 04-03-2013, 11:50 AM
 
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I don't think valuing the advice of a medical professional and doing your own research are mutually exclusive. My doctor is my partner in my families health. That means they don't dictate to me but it also means I don't shut them out of decision making. And if I bring them research and they tell me that doesn't mean what you think it does for this and that reason and there's this other research that says x y and z, I give that a lot of weight.

I think the mechanic analogy is apt.
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#39 of 53 Old 04-03-2013, 12:27 PM
 
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I don't think valuing the advice of a medical professional and doing your own research are mutually exclusive. My doctor is my partner in my families health. That means they don't dictate to me but it also means I don't shut them out of decision making. And if I bring them research and they tell me that doesn't mean what you think it does for this and that reason and there's this other research that says x y and z, I give that a lot of weight.
Yes, to me, part of doing research is talking to subject matter experts (in this case, doctors) and hearing what they have to say!  And of course I'm going to be an active participant in that partnership - for example, we've already changed pediatricians once.  There's a long tradition of "getting a second opinion"...

I think the mechanic analogy is apt.
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#40 of 53 Old 04-03-2013, 12:40 PM
 
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I don't think valuing the advice of a medical professional and doing your own research are mutually exclusive. My doctor is my partner in my families health. That means they don't dictate to me but it also means I don't shut them out of decision making. And if I bring them research and they tell me that doesn't mean what you think it does for this and that reason and there's this other research that says x y and z, I give that a lot of weight.

I think the mechanic analogy is apt.

Neither do I which was kind of my point. That was not how the original sentiment read to me. It sounded like she was saying I didn't go to med school so Ill just do whatever I'm told by my doctor because they know better than I do. But it seems we are all in agreement afterall wink1.gif

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If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." Thomas Jefferson.

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#41 of 53 Old 04-04-2013, 01:30 AM
 
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It is hard for me to trust what my doctor has to say about vaccines because it seems to me that whatever evidence I bring to them, they will push the vaccines regardless.  I am not sure what their agenda is.  I believe that they are taught that in order to irradicate the diseases, they must vaccinate all their patients, regardless of the risk.  Sacrificing the few who will have bad reactions for the betterment of the whole.  And I have a problem with that.  

 

Also, I had an experience where I took my son, who was 9 months old at the time, to the ER because he wasn't using his arm.  He was clearly hurt.  He was running a slight fever and had a slight runny nose.  He was drooling more than usual, so I attributed the fever to either teething or the slight runny nose.  I did not take him to the ER because I was worried about this fever.  Kids get fevers.  He was my third child.  I was not a new mother.  That ER doctor immediately ordered blood tests and wanted a urine sample using a catheter before he even gave my baby an exam.  I pointed out that he did not check his ears, nose or throat.  What if he had an ear infection or strep throat?  My unvaxed children have never needed anti biotics, but before ordering such tests, I believe you need to check out the obvious first.  That ER doctor told me that ear infections don't cause fevers.  That is simply 100% false information.  He also told me that I was lucky that my baby was over 6 months old, or he would be ordering a spinal tap. I'm sorry but because of doctors like this, I absolutely have a trust issue.  I refused the tests and  took my baby home.  His fever was gone when we woke up the next morning. 

 

So I do my research.  No, I don't have a medical degree.  But I do have a BS and I did learn how to do research.   I have written many research papers.  While,I do ask my doctor questions, and I weigh what he has to say very heavily, I do not trust his opinion 100% when it comes to vaccines.

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#42 of 53 Old 04-04-2013, 04:21 AM
 
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Yeah er care is not nearly as good as primary care for those kinds of things. They have a definite tendency to hear hoof beats and think zebras.
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#43 of 53 Old 04-04-2013, 06:55 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I remember in Henci Goer's book "The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth" in the intro she relates a story about Penny Simpkin going up against irate gynecologists/obstetricians.  They demanded of her (something like...), "what gives you the right to say these things?  What do you know- you aren't a doctor!"   She simply replied, "I can read."
 

I am just as qualified as any doctor to make medical decisions for myself and my family.  If there is something specific I need to know, I research until I figure it out.  If it's something acute and life-threatening, I probably would go to a doctor, but maybe not (so yes, I am extremely anti-doctor due to lack of trust).  If it appeared life-threatening to my children and I was not able to figure it out and my doctor relatives weren't able to help me over the phone, I would take them. 

 

(I could also fix a car if I had one - i'd need books and time, but I *could* do it.  Not as quickly as a mechanic, but probably just as well.  and so could you!).

 

--

 

edit:  also, doctors' educations are financed in part by pharmaceutical companies.   All those clocks, Tissue Box Covers, Pens.... golf vacations(?) are also from pharma.  They have to comply to get the presents.  They also have quotas to meet, iirc. I am sorry I don't have time right now to look up the specifics, but maybe someone else knows about the getting paid per vaccine given thing.  They are berated for not administering anough of them and, of course, they make money by giving them (so, a favourite trick of my sister's is to let them draw up the shots and then say, "I changed my mind.... not today" - then they have to throw them away).

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#44 of 53 Old 04-04-2013, 07:01 AM
 
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I remember in Henci Goer's book "The Thinking Woman's Guide to a Better Birth" in the intro she relates a story about Penny Simpkin going up against irate gynecologists/obstetricians.  They demanded of her (something like...), "what gives you the right to say these things?  What do you know- you aren't a doctor!"   She simply replied, "I can read."
 

I am just as qualified as any doctor to make medical decisions for myself and my family.  If there is something specific I need to know, I research until I figure it out.  If it's something acute and life-threatening, I probably would go to a doctor, but maybe not (so yes, I am extremely anti-doctor due to lack of trust).  If it appeared life-threatening to my children and I was not able to figure it out and my doctor relatives weren't able to help me over the phone, I would take them. 

 

(I could also fix a car if I had one - i'd need books and time, but I *could* do it.  Not as quickly as a mechanic, but probably just as well.  and so could you!)

I agree!! My husband can fix anything! He is super handy and teaches himself how to do/fix things he has no experience doing. He has redone our bathroom - including the plumbing. he has NO experience with doing stuff like this. He did a great job! He built our first child's furniture (crib and dresser) from scratch. he has no experience woodworking. They look better than anything you'd find in a store.  

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#45 of 53 Old 04-04-2013, 07:27 AM
 
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I am just as qualified as any doctor to make medical decisions for myself and my family.  If there is something specific I need to know, I research until I figure it out.  If it's something acute and life-threatening, I probably would go to a doctor, but maybe not (so yes, I am extremely anti-doctor due to lack of trust).  If it appeared life-threatening to my children and I was not able to figure it out and my doctor relatives weren't able to help me over the phone, I would take them. 

 

But if something appeared acute and life-threatening, what about the time lost while you're doing your own research, calling relatives, etc?  :/

I've already mentioned that my dad passed away in part because he didn't trust doctors. 

I've also shared, in other threads on this site, that my daughter ended up back in the hospital, with dehydration and jaundice, four days after she was born.  In that case, I did NOT recognize the symptoms (or the severity of them), and I would NOT have been qualified to make that decision without an expert.

 

So, that's some of my lived experience that influences how I feel about doctors.  I'm guessing that, like JulieWojo upthread, you've had different experiences that have caused you to be, in your own words, "extremely anti-doctor due to lack of trust".  Could you share some of that with us?

 

 

(I could also fix a car if I had one - i'd need books and time, but I *could* do it.  Not as quickly as a mechanic, but probably just as well.  and so could you!).

 

I think you flatter me.  ;) 

OK, I managed to put together some toys this Christmas with an electric screwdriver - but the baby gates were a disaster, and we had to call a professional handyman to take care of them.  (In general, my spouse and I are NOT handy-around-the-house people...)

 

More to the point, I might be able to learn something about *my own* car by trying to repair it - but a mechanic will do it faster, as you mentioned, and also has the advantage of looking at dozens, maybe hundreds, of cars just like mine every month.  He (or she) knows the standards, and how my individual car deviates from them. 

...Have we stretched this analogy until it screams yet?  Or can it take a little more, Morticia-style?

 

 

ETA: example from previous poster

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#46 of 53 Old 04-04-2013, 08:38 AM
 
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glassesgirlnj:

 

Vaccine decisions are very rarely life or death scenarios. Assuming you do not have a negative reaction, they are not even health versus poor health scenarios the vast majority of the time.  We also have the luxury of time on our side with vaccines - you do have time to study them if you so chose. 

 

I suspect doctors do not spend a lot of time learning about vaccines in medical school.  There have been a number of threads over the years asking people how happy they were with their doctors ability to answer questions on vaccines - and they do not really get a passing grade.  

 

I actually do think doctors have more general knowledge than I do about health; I also think I can have more knowledge than they do on specific topics in health (unless they have taken a personal interest in the topic).  I certainly have more knowledge on my family tree and life-style than they do.  

 

Not all vaccine decisions, though, come down to recommendations.  A doctor cannot decide for you what risk you find acceptable.  I am fine with possibility of getting the flu.  Others, who might be sick of being sick, or cannot take time off work, or have seen horrible cases of the flu (and I have had the flu - so I do know it is not a walk in the park) might not be.  

 

A couple of links for you on low doctor knowledge of vaccines:

 

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20121022/Primary-care-physicians-miss-hepatitis-vaccine-targets.aspx

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7766912

on health care workers and flu shots

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#47 of 53 Old 04-04-2013, 08:58 AM
 
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It's a matter of covering their backsides from lawsuits. That and what will insurance pay for are the driving forces behind too many medical decisions.

If the doctor is doing what is standard, then insurance will cover it and in the event there is a problem and a lawsuit, the doc has the i's dotted and t's crossed, and has a better chance in court. Sad, really.

And my father died in the hospital, by starving to death. My mother believed his treatment was good, in spite of what happened, because her faith in doctors is so great. My point is -- for every story of a great doc, there's probably a story of malpractice. But I think the PP is right that these experiences influence how we feel about doctors. There's nothing that can be done about that, either.
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#48 of 53 Old 04-11-2013, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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If it appeared life-threatening to my children and I was not able to figure it out and my doctor relatives weren't able to help me over the phone, I would take them. 

 

But if something appeared acute and life-threatening, what about the time lost while you're doing your own research, calling relatives, etc?  :/

 

See above :)  That is when I would possibly consult an allopathic physician.

 

I've already mentioned that my dad passed away in part because he didn't trust doctors. 

I've also shared, in other threads on this site, that my daughter ended up back in the hospital, with dehydration and jaundice, four days after she was born.  In that case, I did NOT recognize the symptoms (or the severity of them), and I would NOT have been qualified to make that decision without an expert.

 

Interesting- J. had a bit of yellow in his eyes and my mother was telling me he would die of jaundice and dehydration, but I just kept breastfeeding him.  Who alerted you to the problem?

 

So, that's some of my lived experience that influences how I feel about doctors.  I'm guessing that, like JulieWojo upthread, you've had different experiences that have caused you to be, in your own words, "extremely anti-doctor due to lack of trust".  Could you share some of that with us?

 

I could.  I have never been asked to before.  Aside from the feelings of violation, I was unfortunately victim of sexual abuse by my pediatrician at 11 who wanted to talk to me (and show me) about Growing Up.  The when I was 16, I was in the hospital and unfortunately it was a "teaching hospital".  For the admissions, I was stripped in front of 5 male med students, laid on a table and examined as if I was not present.  Having your paper gown ripped off you quickly and your legs pulled up in the air and spread is more than humiliating and I wonder sometimes if I would have any legal recourse.

 

I think you flatter me.  ;) 

OK, I managed to put together some toys this Christmas with an electric screwdriver - but the baby gates were a disaster, and we had to call a professional handyman to take care of them.  (In general, my spouse and I are NOT handy-around-the-house people...)

 

heh- we just installed them and the 2 boys promptly destroyed them.  She's going backwards and sideways.  Just a few more days...

 

More to the point, I might be able to learn something about *my own* car by trying to repair it - but a mechanic will do it faster, as you mentioned, and also has the advantage of looking at dozens, maybe hundreds, of cars just like mine every month.  He (or she) knows the standards, and how my individual car deviates from them. 

...Have we stretched this analogy until it screams yet?  Or can it take a little more, Morticia-style?

 

I don't want to be treated the same as a "standard" - I deserve better.  Plus, things are more likely overlooked, I would guess.

 

More, More!!

;)

A

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#49 of 53 Old 04-11-2013, 05:18 PM
 
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Interesting- J. had a bit of yellow in his eyes and my mother was telling me he would die of jaundice and dehydration, but I just kept breastfeeding him.  Who alerted you to the problem?

 

In this case, my pediatrician had some bloodwork ordered (so traumatic watching your 4-day-old n00b's heel scraped greensad.gif), and then she called me that night with the test results.  Her call came up as "Private Number" (which I usually let go to voicemail), and she did not leave a number where she could be reached.  

TWENTY MINUTES LATER, she had a POLICE CAR sent to our home, with the officer telling us that our daughter needed to go to the pediatric ER immediately.  Once we got there, A was put in a bili bed, with strict instructions to give her two ounces of formula every three hours, and the nurse told me I "shouldn't bother" to bring any pumped breastmilk to the hospital.  

 

The same pedi also tried to sign us up for social work visits (i.e., we'd have a mandated reporter coming through our home regularly), but I got out of that by telling her I was paying for my own parent educator / postpartum doula out-of-pocket.  My breastfeeding relationship with A was pretty much tanked, though - her diet never got above 30% breastmilk again.  (I don't feel comfortable with donor milk, for reasons I could get into here, if y'all REALLY wanted me to derail the thread...) 

 

Do I even have to mention that we switched pediatricians shortly afterward?  So you see, I don't blindly listen to *everything* a doctor tells me!!! 

 

 

Aside from the feelings of violation, I was unfortunately victim of sexual abuse by my pediatrician at 11 who wanted to talk to me (and show me) about Growing Up.  The when I was 16, I was in the hospital and unfortunately it was a "teaching hospital".  For the admissions, I was stripped in front of 5 male med students, laid on a table and examined as if I was not present.  Having your paper gown ripped off you quickly and your legs pulled up in the air and spread is more than humiliating and I wonder sometimes if I would have any legal recourse.

 

That's monstrous, and I can't say how sorry I am that happened to you.  I wouldn't trust doctors after experiences like that, either.  If it wasn't so many years ago, and in a different country, I would definitely suggest you consult a lawyer about that. 

 

 

All that being said, our current ped is pretty cool - he was recommended by our midwives.  He's an older, laid-back guy, from Poland originally, and generally gives the impression that he's "seen it all".  He doesn't do evenings or Sundays, but other than that, I have mostly good things to say about him.  I generally tend to think there are good doctors and lousy doctors, just like there are good and lousy word processors, fruit stand owners, et cetera. 

 

 

Brief aside to kathymuggle - yes, I understand that in most cases, vaccines are not life-or-death scenarios.  I was talking more (as the thread got derailed orngbiggrin.gif) about general trust or mistrust of doctors as a whole, and how each person's life experiences inform that.  

Thanks for the links, though, I'll take a look at them! 

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#50 of 53 Old 04-11-2013, 06:51 PM
 
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Brief aside to kathymuggle - yes, I understand that in most cases, vaccines are not life-or-death scenarios.  I was talking more (as the thread got derailed orngbiggrin.gif) about general trust or mistrust of doctors as a whole, and how each person's life experiences inform that.  

Thanks for the links, though, I'll take a look at them! 

This thread has a fairly good and heated) discussion on doctors and trust! Enjoy.

 

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1368637/why-do-people-follow-medical-authorities


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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#51 of 53 Old 04-12-2013, 03:44 AM
 
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This thread has a fairly good and heated) discussion on doctors and trust! Enjoy.

 

http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1368637/why-do-people-follow-medical-authorities

 

Looks like it's been closed/locked to new posts for several months, but thanks for doing the research for me, anyhow!

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#52 of 53 Old 04-12-2013, 09:19 AM
 
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Looks like it's been closed/locked to new posts for several months, but thanks for doing the research for me, anyhow!

Oh, it has been….

 

It just makes for good reading material on the whole issue of trusting doctors and vaccines.    


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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#53 of 53 Old 04-13-2013, 10:17 PM - Thread Starter
 
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In this case, my pediatrician had some bloodwork ordered (so traumatic watching your 4-day-old n00b's heel scraped greensad.gif), and then she called me that night with the test results.  Her call came up as "Private Number" (which I usually let go to voicemail), and she did not leave a number where she could be reached.  

TWENTY MINUTES LATER, she had a POLICE CAR sent to our home, with the officer telling us that our daughter needed to go to the pediatric ER immediately.  Once we got there, A was put in a bili bed, with strict instructions to give her two ounces of formula every three hours, and the nurse told me I "shouldn't bother" to bring any pumped breastmilk to the hospital.  

 

:( sounds terrible!  I had jackson's bare butt in the sun in late october a few times- it was a very warm october at least... cleared itself up.  I have no way of knowing how serious it was, but his palms, etc. weren't yellow, so I didn't worry much.

 

 (I don't feel comfortable with donor milk, for reasons I could get into here, if y'all REALLY wanted me to derail the thread...) 

 

I am a little bit interested!

 

Do I even have to mention that we switched pediatricians shortly afterward?  So you see, I don't blindly listen to *everything* a doctor tells me!!! 

 

That's good.  Nobody should listen blindly to anything no matter who is talking!

 

Aside from the feelings of violation, I was unfortunately victim of sexual abuse by my pediatrician at 11 who wanted to talk to me (and show me) about Growing Up.  The when I was 16, I was in the hospital and unfortunately it was a "teaching hospital".  For the admissions, I was stripped in front of 5 male med students, laid on a table and examined as if I was not present.  Having your paper gown ripped off you quickly and your legs pulled up in the air and spread is more than humiliating and I wonder sometimes if I would have any legal recourse.

 

That's monstrous, and I can't say how sorry I am that happened to you.  I wouldn't trust doctors after experiences like that, either.  If it wasn't so many years ago, and in a different country, I would definitely suggest you consult a lawyer about that. 

 

Our family Doc tried to get me to report it when I told him I didn't want him touching Jackson at all on our first visit (of 2 in his entire 7 years).  He was really upset.  This prompted me to trust him, which was interesting.  But I still can't let them touch me.  There's a painting about it on my website (Hypocritical Oath).  I can't hotlink it because it's flash, but it's in the Cole Wing: www.allisoncslewis.com - that is about the hospital experience.

 

I know the pediatrician's name.  I know where he lives, too. 

edit to add: i don't know anything about the doctors in the hospital (LIJ) or how often they exploit incredibly sick children and I would really love to know if the hospital sanctioned their actions.  It's probably no longer even in their system, it being about 19 years ago.

 

All that being said, our current ped is pretty cool - he was recommended by our midwives.  He's an older, laid-back guy, from Poland originally, and generally gives the impression that he's "seen it all".  He doesn't do evenings or Sundays, but other than that, I have mostly good things to say about him.  I generally tend to think there are good doctors and lousy doctors, just like there are good and lousy word processors, fruit stand owners, et cetera. 

 

I think because I am very uncooperative, I don't find any of them to be reasonable. It's also why I had no other choice but home births (and finally got to do it with just my husband!  yay!)I met so many women during doula training that were abused by doctors, it was amazing.  Homebirthers too.  I was going to write a book about it, but Penny Simkin beat me to it (i think it was her- it's called "when survivors give birth").  I have had exactly one gynecological exam in my life and that is the last one I will ever have gotten by the time I am dead.

 

I trust the shamans here though, at least :)

 

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