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-   -   Preemie given hep b after we denied consent (http://www.mothering.com/forum/47-vaccinations/1380954-preemie-given-hep-b-after-we-denied-consent.html)

bubbagirl 04-03-2013 12:44 AM

Emergency c section and we denied consent. Baby was sent across town and given hep b not 24 hours outside of the womb because whoever made the decision wrote in the file "mom denied consent but we gave it anyway because we didn't know moms status". We are livid. Baby is 6 weeks out of womb now and still in nicu. We just found this out monday evening.

Baby had a lot of issues to overcome the first few weeks not to mention contracting mrsa, lots of topical antibiotics and a course of the most devastating abx after the regular one because i couldn't prove i didn't have gbs. It has been a nightmare.

She should be coming home soon and i know to dose her with probiotics and fermented foods and coconut kefir etc but what can i do to detox her sweet young not even due date age body?

Im sick and so furious and just feel so violated for her and us!

Please any advise you can give on how to help us help her now instead of a wait and see down he road. Thank you

Jennyanydots 04-03-2013 01:17 AM

I'm so sorry. I don't have any advice, but I can commiserate. My second DD (though not a premie) was vaccinated against my wishes and without my consent because the hospital had lost my prenatal records. Not only was she vaccinated for hepb, we were treated very poorly because, as the nurse told me, they "had to assume [i'd] had no prenatal care" due to the lack of records. It's awful that they can treat families like this. I feel bad for you and your little girl. Probiotics, breastfeeding (if possible), and lots of tlc, and I bet she'll be just fine. Good luck, mama, and congratulations on the new baby.

Marnica 04-03-2013 07:51 AM

I would be contacting a lawyer. There is no way I would let this slide. I would open up a can of whoop ass on this hospital. Even if nothing comes of it - people need to stop saying - well these things just happen and there is not much you can do about it. Even if making a big fat stink is just about raising awareness.Perhaps they won't be sop quick to do something like this on the next baby whose mom say no. It is total bullshit that a hospital can give any child/person a medical intervention without consent. and in this case it wasn't even a matter of not being sure if consent was given - they admit that you did not give consent, but they gave the vaccine anyway. Cuss.gif


nia82 04-03-2013 08:00 AM

That is horrible! I know that usually one cannot sue since it is considered standard medical practice. However with those notes in the charts you might have a chance. I'd consult with a lawyer. I hate when medical personnel play God like that and go directly over wishes. wth.


Imakcerka 04-03-2013 01:27 PM

My NICU bb was not given the Vaccine until I consented.  But that was because of their policy to not give the vaccine until week 2.  I would def have your paperwork in hand and go see a lawyer.  That's absolutely not OK. 


prosciencemum 04-03-2013 02:00 PM

It sucks to have a NICU baby. I'm so sorry for you. I hope you get to bring her home soon, and celebrate that milestone.

 

I'm confident she'll be fine in the long run as most kids are after having their newborn vaccines. I'l be jumped all over for expressing that opinion, but I'm sure you all hope for the same outcome.

 

I'm sure just doing what you'd normally do with a newborn will be perfect. :) 

 

All the best and good luck if you decide to pursue compensation for the inappropriate giving of treatment without your consent. My (NICU) daughter was given formula without my consent, although my husband said OK, so I decided to let it go. It still bugs me a bit that her first meal was formula (even though that was the only time she had any), even though intellectually I know that it was a tiny thing, and now years ago. She's super healthy and smart now and no-one ever believes she was a NICU baby at all!


Asiago 04-03-2013 05:54 PM

I so sorry for the experience that you and you baby went through. I really feel that breast milk straight from the breast, pumped, or donated will aid normal immune system development. Lysozyme, lactoferrin not mention antibodies, will all be helpful in the ongoing development of the immune system as well as normalization of gut flora. Best wishes I congratulate you on your new baby girl.

Rrrrrachel 04-03-2013 05:56 PM

I'm so sorry that happened.  


bubbagirl 04-04-2013 01:06 AM

Thank you everyone for your replies. We are kind of in shock over the whole thing and just don't know what we are going to say or do with this knowledge. I truly am most concerned with her health and how best to help her heal and detox and grow strong.

I asked the nurse today if she could tell me which dr was making decisions that day. She ended up having an np come explain the "reason" it was hospital policy and that they didn't really need my consent and that it was law to have that vax to go to school.

I did not want that convo today, but couldn't help countering a little bit.

Again, i thank all of you for your responses and if anyone has any input on metal detoxing for infants, please point me in that direction.

JulieWojo 04-04-2013 02:00 AM

At the very least, you need to submit a complaint to the hospital.  That is absolutely not ok.  Throwing out that it is the law to recieve that vaccine to go to school is a joke.  Is she starting kindergarten next week?  Please!  Even if my baby was a full term healthy baby, I would submit a complaint and contact a lawyer.  That is just wrong.  It is not hospital policy to overide the orders coming from the parents when it isn't a life threatening situation.  They could have easily spoken to you first.   Please do not let this slide.  I am outraged for you, especially because she is just a preemie that is already climbing an uphill battle.  I cant even imagine the extreme anger I would be feeling if this were my own baby.


Rrrrrachel 04-04-2013 05:54 AM

I am in no way making excuses for this hospital an saying it's ok, it is absolutely not and I would be pissed. However, what there likely to say if challenged is that if the mother was hep b positive getting the shot in the first 12 hours Ives the baby the best chance of not being infected, and they will use that to claim a time sensitive situation and they had to act.

I would still definitely file a complaint.

IdentityCrisisMama 04-04-2013 06:20 AM

Oh, mama!  One of the most challenging times we have as parents in advocating for our children is immediately following birth. That should be a special time when we are bonding, recovering, and focusing our energy on the health and wellness of our LO.  

 

Do you have a pediatrician you like/trust?  My first was a non-emergent hospital transfer and we were a bit confused about how to advocate for our DC in the hospital (not saying you are confused...just sharing our story) and when the hospital were being jerks about potential GD (gestational diabetes), our pediatrician was the one to help step in and enforce our "request" that the hospital suspend testing, avoid vaccination and things like the eye goop and etc.(thinking back I think we may have opted for Vit K (4 hr. pushing stage) and PKU) It sounds like this hospital has some serious ethical issues going on and you may benefit from the weight of direct instructions from another doctor to get them to listen. I would also be concerned about your wishes regarding breastmilk being respected, for instance. No formula, no pacifier, whatever the current recs. are for premature babies. If you want I can research a good article for that. 

 

And, just to vent along with you...they don't have the records and then go against your instructions? Because of an error on their part? Seriously?  I would be super angry...if I also weren't just totally in a daze with love for a new baby. Congrats, btw!  

 

Perhaps a family member could take up this cause for you while you get on to breastfeeding and all that goodness. 

 

I think I am more of a traditionalist when it comes to infant supplements in that I really feel like babies should probably only ingest breastmilk. In your case, I would put the majority of my energy into pumping and establishing a BFing relationship (are you tandem nursing?). But, if you're considering giving somethign to your baby, or perhaps amending your own diet in the hopes that on some level that passes to your baby, perhaps post this question in the breasfeeding forum? Or, you could do some research on Kellymom (my favorite BFing site).  For instance, I (personally) wouldn't consider giving an infant any kind of food (fermented, not even coconut oil) but perhaps would consider adding a bit of probiotics into a bottle (I imagine your LO is being bottle fed right now?) or on a spoon mixed with breastmilk. But only after researching. 

 

 

 


IdentityCrisisMama 04-04-2013 06:52 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbagirl View Post

Baby had a lot of issues to overcome the first few weeks not to mention contracting mrsa, lots of topical antibiotics and a course of the most devastating abx after the regular one because i couldn't prove i didn't have gbs. It has been a nightmare.

Oh, gosh, mama. grouphug.gif  

 

Maybe you want to check the NICU/Preemie Parenting forum: http://www.mothering.com/community/f/371/nicu-preemie-parenting


erigeron 04-04-2013 07:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

I am in no way making excuses for this hospital an saying it's ok, it is absolutely not and I would be pissed. However, what there likely to say if challenged is that if the mother was hep b positive getting the shot in the first 12 hours Ives the baby the best chance of not being infected, and they will use that to claim a time sensitive situation and they had to act.

I would still definitely file a complaint.

That's the problem. I imagine a lawsuit wouldn't get very far because of this--I am not optimistic a lawsuit would end up working out at all well. I'd still file a complaint though. 


Marnica 04-04-2013 07:54 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbagirl View Post

Thank you everyone for your replies. We are kind of in shock over the whole thing and just don't know what we are going to say or do with this knowledge. I truly am most concerned with her health and how best to help her heal and detox and grow strong.

I asked the nurse today if she could tell me which dr was making decisions that day. She ended up having an np come explain the "reason" it was hospital policy and that they didn't really need my consent and that it was law to have that vax to go to school.

I did not want that convo today, but couldn't help countering a little bit.

Again, i thank all of you for your responses and if anyone has any input on metal detoxing for infants, please point me in that direction.

Sorry but this is total bullshit. I hope you can make an example of the fools


nia82 04-04-2013 08:00 AM

I hope everything turns out well and once you have time, I implore you to write ratings about the hospital online wherever you can to warn other parents before they go there (e.g. have dad designated to never leave baby's side, or grandma or whoever). People need to know about their attitude. I was very paranoid about this but our hospital was very respectful (they high-fived for not circing, found oral k drops awesome and agreed eye goop is not necessary - so I rated them appropriately online and divert pregnant friends there - there are 3 hospitals to choose from and the others are beyond horrible).


Rrrrrachel 04-04-2013 08:31 AM

This is all part of why I didn't want to birth in a hospital.

Escaping 04-04-2013 08:49 AM

I agree with prosciencemum that she will probably still be perfect, as it is routinely given to newborns and is "standard practice" but I think the bigger issue is they documented deliberately disobeying what was written in the file. That's worse than just missing what was in the file and giving it anyway because it's "so routine". 

I'm not sure where you are, but I would find the hospital's/nurse's governing body and raise hell for everyone involved. The decision was not life and death (kids in Canada are only given their first hep b shot when they're 12-14), there was absolutely no reason they couldn't have investigated "mom's status" if that was the reason for giving the shot. 


emmy526 04-04-2013 10:21 AM

Even if mom was hepb positive, they'd give immunoglobulin in place of the preventive hepb vaccine...the vaccine is useless in a newborn borne to a positive mother.  

 

What you need to do, is file a complaint with the hospital, and also one with your state ins commission, and the federal  joint commission on hospital service.   Also, obtain a copy of your med records for your own personal use, and read thru them with a fine tooth comb...we found MANY MANY serious mistakes on my dh's hospital files.  


Rrrrrachel 04-04-2013 11:43 AM

The standard of care is both when there's a confirmed positive result and the vaccine within 12 hours when the status is not known.

Imakcerka 04-04-2013 12:52 PM

They could have found out the status though.  They really take over in the NICU, I don't think I have ever felt so powerless than the two weeks bb Si was in the NICU. 


dinahx 04-04-2013 01:11 PM

Someone is about to get fired! At least someone wrote it down so you know it was done and who did it . . . School has NOTHING to do with it and that 'explanation' would have me calling a Lawyer & contacting Risk Management quicker than you can say 'Lawsuit'. Health Care Providers who think they are above Parental Consent need to be disciplined, IMO, so it doesn't become a culture . . . 

 

My BFF had a nurse fired during her delivery only because they mentioned that they needed to Drug Test the baby (she had failed an early prenatal screen for Cannabis) in front of her parents who were visiting from out of state . . . The baby passed, but the Nurse failed to understand HIPPA and so she lost her job.


dinahx 04-04-2013 01:13 PM

NURSES are *never* in charge of YOUR baby, even in the NICU. Maybe a Neonatologist, but not a RN. Again that is not the law, it isn't policy, it is a CULTURE and one that needs to be busted up by parents who are victims of it . . . 

 

Basically, they can override your consent for *lifesaving procedures of urgent medical necessity* Other than that, they need CPS/DSS and/or a Judge . . . They don't get to just sidestep those requirements, anymore than Police can just decide to search w/o a warrant . . . You may not win in court, unless you can prove *harm* and continuing care needs as a result of their actions, but you can at least make enough noise that that care team knows not to mess again . . . 


JulieWojo 04-04-2013 01:20 PM

They could have easily found the status of the mother with a simple phone call.  Also, if it was written in the file then most likely, the status was already known by the person who wrote it in the file.  I don't know that 100%, it is just an assumption.  Either way, this was so so wrong and I can't think of any excuse.  


Rrrrrachel 04-04-2013 01:21 PM

Like I said, I am in no way saying what they did was right. Just pointing out what te argument is likely to be.

serenbat 04-04-2013 01:32 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinahx View Post

NURSES are *never* in charge of YOUR baby, even in the NICU. Maybe a Neonatologist, but not a RN. Again that is not the law, it isn't policy, it is a CULTURE and one that needs to be busted up by parents who are victims of it . . . 

 

 

I would say there is always someone "in charge" - nurse, be it RN, etc has a superior at all times - OP learn the words "I want to speak to _____ (supervisor, superior, manager, etc) immediately " - this works in lots of situation, not just medical. 


Marnica 04-04-2013 01:52 PM

I have a question for the OP

 

I assume you got routine prenatal care yes? I mean you were under the care of a midwife or OBGYN throughout your pregnancy right?

 

If so than I'm sure you got routine bloodwork done. A hep B screening is part of that routine bloodwork. So I agree that although status may not have been known if you delivered early  (the hospital may not have had your records handy right then), it was something that could easily have been obtained with a phone call or even a discussion with you! I hope you make a great big stink!!!


Imakcerka 04-04-2013 02:23 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marnica View Post

I have a question for the OP

 

I assume you got routine prenatal care yes? I mean you were under the care of a midwife or OBGYN throughout your pregnancy right?

 

If so than I'm sure you got routine bloodwork done. A hep B screening is part of that routine bloodwork. So I agree that although status may not have been known if you delivered early  (the hospital may not have had your records handy right then), it was something that could easily have been obtained with a phone call or even a discussion with you! I hope you make a great big stink!!!

 

Yes it is.  Op did you have the screening done?  And do you have proof? They are likely going to use that you either didn't have the screening or your HepB was positive/unknown. 


fruitfulmomma 04-04-2013 02:53 PM

I am sorry this happened. yes, absolutely file complaints.

 

Not that it would help with a child being moved, but I actually took copies of the results of my hep b with me to the hospital last time just in case they try to claim they didn't have it. I've had them lose gbs results before but then they only wanted to monitor baby and I made them go find them so we could go home.


bubbagirl 04-05-2013 02:17 PM

Sorry I am just now responding. I am on my phone and typing a bunch on it is so hard dor me. I will respond to everything tonight when i have a keyboard to use.

I appreciate all feedback.


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