30 Studies Showing the Link between Vaccines and Autism - Mothering Forums

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Old 04-04-2013, 07:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I am taking the liberty of moving the debate started by and apparently insisted upon by prosciencemum and Glowby in the "Vaccination Research for Beginners" forum over here, as debate is not permitted there.

 

Prosciencemum, I am reposting my questions for you, as you did not yet address them:

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Many of those studies correlate autism with environmental toxins. Or they talk about metallic mercury. It's easy to get confused by stuff like that, but it's just not what Mirzam, or the link she posts, says it is. It is not 30 studies showing links between autism and vaccines.

prosciencemum, could you please tell us exactly how many studies listed here DO show links between autism and vaccines?   You see, I didn't think the "stuff like that" was confusing at all. However, I found your post to be confusing; on first reading, I thought you were stating that none of the studies support a thimerosal-vaccine connection.  On closer re-reading, I realized that you may have meant something like, "only 29 studies (out of the 30 listed) actually support a thimerosal-vaccine connection."  But it's very hard to tell, since you were never specific.  
 

Could you specify exactly which studies correlate autism with environmental toxins, and could you please explain how an infant injected with several thimerosal-preserved and/or aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines in one day has NOT been exposed to environmental toxins via vaccination?

 

Could you also please tell us how many of these studies DO correlate autism with thimerosal?  Please note, I didn't say "prove that thimerosal causes autism." We are discussing the CORRELATION of autism with thimerosal, right?

 

So how many of these mainstream medical, peer-reviewed studies concluded that there may be a plausible correlation between thimerosal and autism?

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Old 04-04-2013, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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And Glowby, I am reposting my reply to your post here, so that we can continue the discussion without violating MDC's policy of no debating on the "Vaccination Research for Beginners" thread:

 

 

Glowby,  your "analysis" of the studies looks like a deliberate attempt to misinform readers here, as it seems you have deliberately left out information crucial to the conclusions of the studies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glowby View Post

.

 

In study #5, they gave the mice between 21,333 and 42,667 times the ethylmercury per weight that a child gets in a flu vaccine.

 

Study 5 actually concludes;  "Although the thimerosal levels used were very high, as we were originally only trying to determine MTD, it was completely unexpected to observe a difference of the MTD between male and female mice. Thus, our studies, although not directly addressing the controversy surrounding thimerosal and autism, and still preliminary due to small numbers of mice examined, provide, nevertheless, the first report of gender-selective toxicity of thimerosal and indicate that any future studies of thimerosal toxicity should take into consideration gender-specific differences."

 

 

In study #7, they gave the monkeys 111 times what's in a child's flu shot, and they gave it every day for 3 months.

 

Interestingly, studies 6 and 7 concluded that ethylmercury (what's in Thimerosal) is metabolized and passed through the body much more quickly than methylmercury. This suggests that most of the mercury that might be detected in humans is due to exposure to environmental methylmercury rather than ethylmercury.

 

 

Study 6 actually says: "This study demonstrates clearly and unequivocally that ethyl mercury, the kind of mercury found in vaccines, not only ends up in the brain, but leaves double the amount of inorganic mercury as methyl mercury, the kind of mercury found in fish. This work is groundbreaking because little is known about ethyl mercury, and many health authorities have asserted that the mercury found in vaccines is the “safe kind.” This study also delivers a strong rebuke of the Institute of Medicine’s recommendation in 2004 to no longer pursue the mercury-autism connection."
 
Study 7 concludes:  "The identities of the reactive glial cells and the implications for the long-term function and survivability of the neurons due to changes in the glial population following subclinical long-term exposure to mercury are discussed."
 

 

 

 

Several of the 30 studies measured mercury levels in subjects without regard for their sources (studies 2, 3, 9, 10, 12, 14, 20, 21, 22, 23, 29)

 

 

Did you actually read those studies?  These studies validate anecdotal evidence that, prior to those studies, had been categorically denied by the scientific community (and, I might add, by some posters here).  Your assertion suggests that you were hoping nobody here would bother to read the studies, as your assertion has....well, nothing whatsoever to do with the studies you specified.

 

Study 2:  "These data implicate environmental toxicity in childhood autistic disorder."

 

study 3:   "Autism could result from more than one cause, with different manifestations in different individuals that share common symptoms. Documented causes of autism include genetic mutations and/or deletions, viral infections, and encephalitis following vaccination. Therefore, autism is the result of genetic defects and/or inflammation of the brain. The inflammation could be caused by a defective placenta, immature blood-brain barrier, the immune response of the mother to infection while pregnant, a premature birth, encephalitis in the child after birth, or a toxic environment."

 

study 9:  "Autism has been modeled as a brain-based, strongly genetic disorder, but emerging findings and hypotheses support a broader model of the condition as a genetically influenced and systemic. These include imaging, neuropathology and psychological evidence of pervasive (and not just specific) brain and phenotypic features; postnatal evolution and chronic persistence of brain, behavior and tissue changes (e.g. inflammation) and physical illness symptomatology (e.g. gastrointestinal, immune, recurrent infection); overlap with other disorders; and reports of rate increases and improvement or recovery that support a role for modulation of the condition by environmental factors (e.g. exacerbation or triggering by toxins, infectious agents, or others stressors, or improvement by treatment)."

 

Study 10:  "This study demonstrates how Thimerosal inhibits methylation, a central driver of cellular communication and development. Excerpt:

 
“The potent inhibition of this pathway [methylation] by ethanol, lead, mercury, aluminum, and thimerosal suggests it may be an important target of neurodevelopmental toxins.”
 
Study 12:  "Excerpt: “We have reanalyzed the data set originally reported by Ip et al. in 2004 and have found that the original p value was in error and that a significant relation does exist between the blood levels of mercury and diagnosis of an autism spectrum disorder. Moreover, the hair sample analysis results offer some support for the idea that persons with autism may be less efficient and more variable at eliminating mercury from the blood.”
 
Study 14:  "Shows a potential link between mercury and the autopsied brains of young people with autism. A marker for oxidative stress was 68.9% higher in autistic brain issue than controls (a statistically significant result), while mercury levels were 68.2% higher."
 
Study 20:  "This study demonstrated the correlation between environmental mercury and autism rates in Texas."
 
study 21:  Excerpt: “Our results suggest a potential association between autism and estimated metal concentrations, and possibly solvents, in ambient air around the birth residence.”
 
Study 22:  This study reviewed the case histories and medical profiles of nine autistic children and concluded that eight of the nine children were mercury toxic and this toxicity manifested itself in a manner consistent with Autism Spectrum Disorders.
 
Excerpt: “…these previously normally developing children suffered mercury toxic encephalopathies that manifested with clinical symptoms consistent with regressive ASDs. Evidence for mercury intoxication should be considered in the differential diagnosis as contributing to some regressive ASDs.”
 
Study 23:  This study demonstrates that blood mercury levels are higher in children with ADHD.
 
Excerpt: “There was significant difference in blood mercury levels between cases and controls, which persists after adjustment for age, gender and parental occupational status. The geometric mean blood mercury level was also significantly higher in children with inattentive and combined subtypes of ADHD. High blood mercury level was associated with ADHD. Whether the relationship is causal requires further studies.”
 
study 29:  "We suspect that persistent low-dose exposures to various environmental toxicants, including mercury, that occur during critical windows of neural development among genetically susceptible children (with a diminished capacity for metabolizing accumulated toxicants) may increase the risk for developmental disorders such as autism. Successfully identifying the specific combination of environmental exposures and genetic susceptibilities can inform the development of targeted prevention intervention strategies."

 

Yes, I would agree that the "30 studies" article has a non-vax bias and that other web articles have a pro-vax bias. But being biased and dishonest aren't necessarily the same thing. This particular article attempts to persuade dishonestly. That's why I labeled it as propaganda.

 

You have failed to show anything dishonest in the "30 studies" article..  However, your own statements appear to be dishonest..

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Old 04-04-2013, 03:47 PM
 
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Old 04-04-2013, 04:08 PM
 
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:11 AM
 
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http://www.examiner.com/article/scientific-evidence-15-pubmed-studies-show-a-link-between-vaccines-autism

 

 

To see all fifteen studies go to:http://www.regardingcaroline.com/pubmed

Quote:
Scientific Evidence: 15 PubMed studies show a link between vaccines & autism
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Old 04-05-2013, 09:54 AM
 
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This is the thread in "Beginning to Research" which Taximom branched off from: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1377182/the-truth-about-vaccines-at-last/

 

I thought glowby did a great job reviewing the 30 studies there, and answered all of Taximom's questions to me perfectly, so I didn't feel the need to add anything more. 


Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences) and I'm pro-vaccine.

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Old 04-05-2013, 10:09 AM
 
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I found a lot of information by googling the name of the first five studies or so. I didn't get any further than that, though.
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Old 04-05-2013, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

This is the thread in "Beginning to Research" which Taximom branched off from: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1377182/the-truth-about-vaccines-at-last/

 

I thought glowby did a great job reviewing the 30 studies there, and answered all of Taximom's questions to me perfectly, so I didn't feel the need to add anything more. 

Prosciencemum  I think all of us who are questioning/criticizing vaccine safety would really appreciate it if you would provide direct and simple answers to my specific questions.  Glowby's "review" of the studies was at best, biased, and at worse, contained outright lies; in addition, they simply were not direct answers to my questions.  Besides, I asked YOU.  Please have the courtesy to respond as requested, instead of trying to avoid answering the questions.

 

  Here, I'll repost them again for you.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

Many of those studies correlate autism with environmental toxins. Or they talk about metallic mercury. It's easy to get confused by stuff like that, but it's just not what Mirzam, or the link she posts, says it is. It is not 30 studies showing links between autism and vaccines.

prosciencemum, could you please tell us exactly how many studies listed here DO show links between autism and vaccines?   You see, I didn't think the "stuff like that" was confusing at all. However, I found your post to be confusing; on first reading, I thought you were stating that none of the studies support a thimerosal-vaccine connection.  On closer re-reading, I realized that you may have meant something like, "only 29 studies (out of the 30 listed) actually support a thimerosal-vaccine connection."  But it's very hard to tell, since you were never specific.  
 

Could you specify exactly which studies correlate autism with environmental toxins, and could you please explain how an infant injected with several thimerosal-preserved and/or aluminum-adjuvanted vaccines in one day has NOT been exposed to environmental toxins via vaccination?

 

Could you also please tell us how many of these studies DO correlate autism with thimerosal?  Please note, I didn't say "prove that thimerosal causes autism." We are discussing the CORRELATION of autism with thimerosal, right?

 

So how many of these mainstream medical, peer-reviewed studies concluded that there may be a plausible correlation between thimer

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Old 04-05-2013, 04:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

This is the thread in "Beginning to Research" which Taximom branched off from: http://www.mothering.com/community/t/1377182/the-truth-about-vaccines-at-last/

 

I thought glowby did a great job reviewing the 30 studies there, and answered all of Taximom's questions to me perfectly, so I didn't feel the need to add anything more. 

 

Glowby is doubtlessly very bright, and able to make points, however she took it too far when she suggested that the author of the article posted was being dishonest.

 

She could ( and did) say she find the links tenuous, the authors of some of the studies circumspect, etc….but to say the author of the article was deliberately lying is libel.  She cannot know if the author is being deliberately dishonest (and posting links you disagree with =/=dishonest) and there is no evidence to suggest she is.  

 


libel:

 

 

li·bel  

/ˈlībəl/
 
Noun
A published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation; a written defamation.

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 04-05-2013, 04:22 PM
 
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That is hilarious considering how often that accusation gets thrown around by posters here.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:23 PM
 
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OMG, including in the post directly above yours!!!!! Why take glowby to task and not taxi?
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:45 PM
 
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If y'all want to discuss glowby and/or what does or does not qualify as slander maybe start a new thread.
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Old 04-05-2013, 07:17 PM
 
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*ahem* it's libel when it's a written statement.

Carry on!

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Old 04-05-2013, 07:28 PM
 
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*ahem* it's libel when it's a written statement.

Carry on!

libel, then wink1.gif . Edited.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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Old 04-05-2013, 07:35 PM
 
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If y'all want to discuss glowby and/or what does or does not qualify as slander maybe start a new thread.

 

 

Why? This is a spin-off of the thread she heavily participated in, and really, it is her conclusions around the author being dishonest that I have issues with.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

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Old 04-05-2013, 07:42 PM
 
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Quote:
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OMG, including in the post directly above yours!!!!! Why take glowby to task and not taxi?

I read Taxi's post in question. 

 

Here is the line that jumps out at me:

 

"Glowby's "review" of the studies was at best, biased, and at worse, contained outright lies"

 

A few thoughts

 

1.  Taxi left the door open to the idea that glowby was not lying

2.  glowby started it (yeah, mature on my part, lol)

3.  and this is the important one…..Glowby is a user name.  Taxi casting aspersions on a anonymous person is not as bad as someone casting aspersions on a non-anonymous person.  The author of the article is listed.  

 

(and if I am being totally honest, I don't tend to read non-vaxxers statement with as critical an eye as I could - and I am less likely to take them to task  Not great, but true.  It is unfortunately the climate here, and pro-vaxxers certainly do it, too.  I will offer up as evidence the time a bunch of pro-vaxxers decided to completely mock parents who believe their children suffered from vaccine injury - and not one pro-vaxxer told them to knock it off - or even offered up an apology when they were given the opportunity to do so.   There is a fair bit of toxic crap here)

 

and with that…bonne nuit.


There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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Old 04-05-2013, 07:52 PM
 
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What a joke.
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Old 04-05-2013, 08:03 PM
 
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nm.  

There is a battle of two wolves inside us.  One is good and the other is evil.  The wolf that wins is the one you feed.

 

Book and herb loving mama to 1 preteen and 2 teens (when did that happen?).  We travel, go to school, homeschool, live rurally, eat our veggies, spend too much time...

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Old 04-06-2013, 10:47 PM
 
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wow.

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