LOL - Now its perfumes that cause autism - Mothering Forums

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#1 of 54 Old 04-15-2013, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Anything but vaccines.......

 

 

 

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We hypothesize that perfumes and cosmetics may be important factors in the pathogenesis of ASD. Synthetic perfumes have gained global utility not only as perfumes but also as essential chemicals in detergents, cosmetics, soap, and a wide variety of commonly used items, even in food flavoring to enhance product taste. Here we provide evidence that a majority of perfumes are highly mutagenic at femtomolar concentrations, and cause significant neuromodulations in human neuroblastoma cells at extremely low levels of concentration, levels that are expected to reach a developing fetal brain if the pregnant mothers are exposed to these chemicals.

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23578362?dopt=Abstract

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#2 of 54 Old 04-15-2013, 12:40 PM
 
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I do find it amusing that anything else environmental would be at least considered to play a role in or be a contributing factor in the development of ASD - except vaccines. 

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#3 of 54 Old 04-15-2013, 02:01 PM
 
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I don't really understand why anyone would find that amusing.

Part of the reason most people don't think vaccines can cause significant problems (except in very rare cases) is their tiny sizes compared to other environmental exposure.

Like a drop of water in the ocean.

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#4 of 54 Old 04-15-2013, 05:23 PM
 
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I don't really understand why anyone would find that amusing.

Part of the reason most people don't think vaccines can cause significant problems (except in very rare cases) is their tiny sizes compared to other environmental exposure.

Like a drop of water in the ocean.

Yet, unused vaccines must be disposed of as hazardous waste:  http://denr.sd.gov/des/wm/hw/documents/Thimerosal.pdf

 

 

"Based upon calculations (50 ppm mercury/5 mL vial) and test results (40 ppm and 43 ppm/5 mL vial), the department determined the level of mercury in multidose thimerosal-containing vaccines tested exceed the 0.2 ppm TCLP standard for mercury. With the information provided by the manufacturer and results from the TCLP analyses, unused multidose vials containing thimerosal that are destined for disposal need to be managed as a hazardous waste. Consequently, unless a manufacturer or generator has information or a TCLP analysis performed on a vaccine that documents otherwise, unwanted vaccines containing thimerosal should be managed as hazardous waste that exhibits the characteristic of mercury toxicity."

 

Sounds like that they are only worried about thimerosal-containing vaccines--but wait:

 

"The term preservative- or thimerosal-free can be utilized if the manufacturer further purified the product, leaving only trace amounts (less than or equal to 1 microgram/0.5 mL) per dose. Even at this level, calculations indicate mercury would exceed the TCLP standard; therefore these vaccines, if deemed unusable, should be managed as hazardous waste as well.?

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#5 of 54 Old 04-15-2013, 05:28 PM
 
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Perfumes are something children are exposed to everyday multiple times a day. They lay their little new born faces on skin washed with perfumed soap or sprayed with perfume. They wear clothes washed in perfumed detergent. They are washed with perfumed soaps. Heck they even make perfume for babies. These are the kinds of exposures I worry about for my child far more than the occasional exposure to small amounts of various substances in vaccines.
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#6 of 54 Old 04-15-2013, 07:57 PM
 
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Like a drop of water, in the ocean, injected into your body! ProVax rhetoric can't understand this basic SCIENCE concept ever it seems: inGESTion is not inJECTion . . . They are different. Very much so! (Obviously this does not apply to OPV and Rota)

 

I think the general tone of Vax research is a) blame the victim (look for obscure genetic variations) and b) blame the mother (pull in fathers occasionally so you don't get accused sexism)

 

However, whatever, sure, Perfuming could be characterized as a mainstream parenting practice that NL types almost totally avoid, so that could explain the lower incidence of ASDs in the children of Environmentally conscious mamas . . . (The same types also likely to delay or skip or reject). (Which I freely admit is my own hypothosis based on years on Mama boards where my NL friends weren't reporting ASDs but my mainstream friends were).

 

Because the same 'science based' thinkers that tell us that there is nothing wrong with a little Thimerisol or a little Aluminum also tell us that we shouldn't be scared of synthetic fragrances or Triclosan . . .

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#7 of 54 Old 04-15-2013, 07:58 PM
 
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The liver is actually really great @ dealing with pollution, the lungs less so. But the best way to bypass these defenses is, IDK, use a needle?

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#8 of 54 Old 04-15-2013, 08:07 PM
 
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I have mixed feelings about the OP's article.

 

I am truly glad they are searching for environmental causes for the increase in autism.  As such, hey, have at it. 

 

The parental part of me is offended, however, that they will consider a slew of things yet dismiss the many, many parental reports of "my child received a vax and was never the same afterward."  I am sure someone will come on and say "but they did consider vaccines!" but whether they have studied them well enough is up for debate, IMHO, and not something I feel like rehashing for the zillionth time.  

 

With regards to autism triggers  (such as perfume), it is getting to the point where I think parents will just be overwhelmed, think everything is toxic, throw up their hands…and maintain the status quo. This is good for those who promote vaccination, as vaccines are the status quo. 

 

This following might be a skeptic site, so proceed with caution if you are not in the mood - but it has a great list of things that are linked to autism and illustrates my point about how parents may just throw up their hands and go "to hell with trying to prevent autism - anything can cause it"

 

http://biologyfiles.fieldofscience.com/2011/10/this-just-in-being-alive-linked-to.html


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#9 of 54 Old 04-15-2013, 08:27 PM
 
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It's not so much injestion as what gets absorbed through the skin that concerns me. There have been several projects done by different authors lately where thy monitored their blood levels of various toxins (bpa, pthalates, etc) after "normal" exposure, such as using a plastic container to reheat food. The levels of these chemicals in their blood sky rocketed very quickly. These are real forms of exposure to some serious chemicals that we all get to some extent or another, no matter how Eco concious we are. I'm not sure why the "ha ha look how desperate they are" attitude.
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#10 of 54 Old 04-15-2013, 09:13 PM
 
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It is just paradoxical to worry about absorbing BPA from reheated food but not getting injected with Aluminum is NBD, given their relative idividual toxicities.

 

Also, something like Fluoride is supposed to be totally benign at .7ppm, which is something that ProVax types tend to assert, and that is injested every single day, then Perfume & BPA are not actually consumed into the body on PURpose, kwim?

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#11 of 54 Old 04-15-2013, 09:36 PM
 
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I'm wondering about the different autism rates from country to country, and whether there is a difference in the amount of perfumes used in those countries?

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#12 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 04:33 AM
 
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There's a big difference in the amounts involved, and one exposure is chronic and the other is not. A vaccine doesn't measurably raise the level of aluminum in blood. Consuming food packed in a bpa lined can or he like does. And if you're exposed to it every day your body doesn't get the chance to detox from it.
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#13 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 04:34 AM
 
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Lately I'm more convinced that the difference in autism rates among developed countries is about diagnosis and definition than a real difference in rates. Perfumes are also only one chemical substance that we're chronically exposed to.
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#14 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 07:09 AM
 
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Dalia me too. When I grew up all the cosmetics had the worst ingredients (parabens, perfumes) and they were instructed to bathe and lotion us daily. And my parents did. Our detergents and Co were just as chemical laden (and color additives too) yet autism was unheard of.

 

That set aside, those chemicals are horrible. We don't use cosmetics with parabens, colors, perfumes and so on. Our detergent is harmless too. As many posters here we made a huge effort to get our house bad-chemical clean. So yes, my kids aren't exposed to perfumes/parabens/Al (like in deo)/you name it.... As for my friends and family back home, all of them use only natural stuff (even those otherwise not concerned with eating organic - my private little survey showed midwives suggested the natural products for babies, and since they do up to 6 postpartum visits and help with breastfeeding it does have an impact). It seems more mainstream in Europe - we live in a small military town here and I'm being laughed at for not slapping Johnson&Johnson baby wash on the kid and wash everything with cheapest Walmart detergent.....

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#15 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 07:30 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel View Post

Perfumes are also only one chemical substance that we're chronically exposed to.

The thing that bothers me about the perfume exposure (aside from the migraines) is that they're so unnecessary.  I'm pretty darned cautious about vaccines, but those at least have an allegedly useful purpose.  "Bold" scented dryer sheets, not so much.  While the perfume exposure is only one part of the pollution problem, it's a particularly pointless part.  Also, it's easier to opt out of vaccines than perfumes.  Even if I stay home, I've still got dryer-sheet stink coming in from the neighbour's house.  Even if the chances are really small that perfume exposure is contributing to autism, we're not really gaining anything by keeping them around at the current levels.

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#16 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 09:25 AM
 
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Citation on 'Vaccines don't raise the level of Aluminum in the blood'? I do not believe that children have EVER been systematically tested for blood aluminum level following vaccination. Also aluminum levels vary WIDELY from brand to brand even within the same Vax . . .
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#17 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 09:26 AM
 
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If EATING a food that has come in contact with BPA raises the level in the blood but being injected directly with Aluminum does not, I would be, as they say 'shocked & chagrined'
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#18 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 09:45 AM
 
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Citation on 'Vaccines don't raise the level of Aluminum in the blood'? I do not believe that children have EVER been systematically tested for blood aluminum level following vaccination. Also aluminum levels vary WIDELY from brand to brand even within the same Vax . . .

I'll try to find a citation for you when I have a chance.
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#19 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 09:47 AM
 
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The thing that bothers me about the perfume exposure (aside from the migraines) is that they're so unnecessary.  I'm pretty darned cautious about vaccines, but those at least have an allegedly useful purpose.  "Bold" scented dryer sheets, not so much.  While the perfume exposure is only one part of the pollution problem, it's a particularly pointless part.  Also, it's easier to opt out of vaccines than perfumes.  Even if I stay home, I've still got dryer-sheet stink coming in from the neighbour's house.  Even if the chances are really small that perfume exposure is contributing to autism, we're not really gaining anything by keeping them around at the current levels.

I completely agree. The typical American basically douses themselves with pthalates several times a day for literally no gain. I'm very sensitive to smells, maybe just because we almost always use non scented at home, and they really are everywhere out in public!
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Unfortunately this is only a secondary source.
Quote:
Indeed, the quantity of aluminum in vaccines is so small that even after an injection
of vaccines, the amount of aluminum in a baby’s blood does not detectably change.

http://www.chop.edu/export/download/pdfs/articles/vaccine-education-center/aluminum.pdf

The difference, again, is a very tiny amount of aluminum vs a much larger amount of bpa, an chronic exposure vs occasional exposure. I don't sweat the occasional can of tomatoes with bpa lining for my family. We otherwise avoid it and we eat a healthy diet. Our bodies eliminate the injested bpa. If we were eating contaminated food (or rubbing cosmetic products with questionable ingredients on our skin, etc) everyday I would expect to see more negative results.
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#21 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 10:41 AM - Thread Starter
 
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New study on the pathway of INJECTED aluminum from muscle to brain.

 

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/11/99

 

 

 

Quote:

Results

Intramuscular injection of alum-containing vaccine was associated with the appearance of aluminum deposits in distant organs, such as spleen and brain where they were still detected one year after injection.

 

 

 

 

 

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Conclusion

Nanomaterials can be transported by monocyte-lineage cells to DLNs, blood and spleen, and, similarly to HIV, may use CCL2-dependent mechanisms to penetrate the brain. This occurs at a very low rate in normal conditions explaining good overall tolerance of alum despite its strong neurotoxic potential. However, continuously escalating doses of this poorly biodegradable adjuvant in the population may become insidiously unsafe, especially in the case of overimmunization or immature/altered blood brain barrier or high constitutive CCL-2 production.

 

 

Heidi Stevenson's commentary on the study is here.

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#22 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 10:45 AM
 
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Unfortunately this is only a secondary source.
http://www.chop.edu/export/download/pdfs/articles/vaccine-education-center/aluminum.pdf

The difference, again, is a very tiny amount of aluminum vs a much larger amount of bpa, an chronic exposure vs occasional exposure. I don't sweat the occasional can of tomatoes with bpa lining for my family. We otherwise avoid it and we eat a healthy diet. Our bodies eliminate the injested bpa. If we were eating contaminated food (or rubbing cosmetic products with questionable ingredients on our skin, etc) everyday I would expect to see more negative results.

 

That is clearly just an opinion statement, likely from Paul Offit, because it comes from CHOP. The 'small' amount of aluminum is a subjective statement. 

Not trying to be mean, I just think it is relatively unstudied and that his opinion is based mostly on conjecture . . . 

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#23 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 10:50 AM
 
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Though all of the aluminum present in vaccines enters the bloodstream, less than 1 percent of aluminum present in food is absorbed through the intestines into the blood. 

 

 

 

This statement is particularly bizarre: the reason less than 1% of aluminum in food enters the bloodstream is because the molecule is relatively large and is thought not to bypass the membranes . . . That is reassuring if you are tossin back some Tums or baking with Double Acting Baking Powder, however it has roughly nothing to do with Vaccines and Adjuvants @ all. I have even been called stupid for discussing the two together in the past (like listing all possible sources of exposure) because I am supposed to understand that the salt used in Vaxes is *totally* different from the type used in food . . .

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#24 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 11:13 AM
 
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I think it is plausible perfumes are a trigger or linked to autism. Why not? There is some nasty stuff in them…..
 
I don't think saying perfumes are a plausible link because they are chronic while vaccines are not plausible because they are not chronic, holds.
 
1.  Vaccines, and usually multiple vaccines, are given at birth, 2, 4, 6, 12, 15 and 18 months.  That might not be chronic - but it certainly is not infrequent exposure, either.  They may even get the flu and DTaP in utero.
 
2.  It is not only chronic exposure to things that are bad for us that is a problem in our world, single but intense exposure is as well.  With children, timing of exposure could mean a lot.  This has big implications in pregnancy, but it would not surprise me if infancy was also a time when we are more likely to rewired, health-wise.  
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#25 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 11:13 AM
 
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Hm, it doesn't read at all like an opinion statement to me, Dinah. There are sources at the end of the piece.

I'm not sure what's bizarre about the second statement? I think it's an important statement when comparing aluminum exposure from diet vs vaccines.
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#26 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I can see chemical exposure, and perfume being one, as a mechanism for epigenetic change  which could result in a susceptibility to autism, but I have a hard time coming to grips with an exposure to perfume alone would triggering autism. I also agree that the argument that exposure to perfume is chronic while the exposure to vaccine ingredients doesn't fly.


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#27 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 12:05 PM
 
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I just want to point out that when they say perfume they don't mean stuff that comes in a glass bottle and you dab on your wrists. They're referring to a whole family of chemicals that are in a wide variety of products we encounter everyday, including food.

I don't think there's one trigger for something like autism, personally. But perfumes make up one major component of the chemical soup a typical person in the developed world lives in.
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#28 of 54 Old 04-16-2013, 12:07 PM
 
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I'm interested in research on what kinds of substances commonly encountered are dangerous in a single exposure at low levels, or even a handful of exposures spaced months apart. I'm not sure how you would quantify "intense exposure," but I would not consider vaccines a source of intense exposure to aluminum.
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#29 of 54 Old 04-17-2013, 11:14 AM
 
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I don't think there's one trigger for something like autism, personally. But perfumes make up one major component of the chemical soup a typical person in the developed world lives in.

So do vaccines.  And vaccine-induced brain damage (including autism) has been proven, as well as admitted and compensated by the US, Italian, Finnish, and Australian  governments.

 

Hey, if there's a perfume-trigger for autism, yes, by all means, investigate it, and thoroughly.

 

But don't use it as an excuse to deny the vaccine-autism link.

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#30 of 54 Old 04-17-2013, 01:04 PM
 
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But don't use it as an excuse to deny the vaccine-autism link.

 

That's fine. Well just use all the peer reviewed science which says there's no link between autism and vaccines. 

 

Like this: http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=13164

 

"It finds that while no vaccine is 100 percent safe, very few adverse events are shown to be caused by vaccines. In addition, the evidence shows that vaccines do not cause several conditions. For example, the MMR vaccine is not associated with autism or childhood diabetes. Also, the DTaP vaccine is not associated with diabetes and the influenza vaccine given as a shot does not exacerbate asthma."

 

and this: http://summaries.cochrane.org/CD004407/using-the-combined-vaccine-for-protection-of-children-against-measles-mumps-and-rubella

 

 

 

 

Quote:

We could assess no significant association between MMR immunisation and the following conditions: autism, asthma, leukaemia, hay fever, type 1 diabetes, gait disturbance, Crohn's disease, demyelinating diseases, or bacterial or viral infections. The methodological quality of many of the included studies made it difficult to generalise their results.

 

(these are both comprehensive reviews of other peer reviewed published studies, there are others by different groups too)

Oh, and you could also use all the different studies published at the Autism Science Foundation: http://www.autismsciencefoundation.org/autismandvaccines.html which they use to conclude no link. 


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