"Anyone can report to VAERS" - Page 2 - Mothering Forums

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#31 of 45 Old 07-17-2013, 08:00 PM
 
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Originally Posted by prosciencemum View Post

People are studied. Serious reactions just happen so rarely though...

Yikes. Guess someone forgot to inform my daughter that reactions are so rare that she shouldn't have had them.  And I did report them - to the pediatrician, and to VAERS myself because I don't trust a doctor to go and report something that they don't believe exists.  As a longer term reaction, my daughter developed a nasty sensitivity/borderline allergy to oats, following her last vaccines.  Covered head to toe in hives, eyes swollen, body red hot, I was told she couldn't possibly be having a food reaction - it  was labled a "non-specific viral illness".  No one's been knocking down my door to study my child.

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#32 of 45 Old 06-17-2015, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Bumping.

Happy Throwback . . . Wednesday??

Post 16 addresses the ridiculousness of the Incredible Hulk filing a VAERS report.
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“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines.” - Marcia Angell, M.D., former NEJM Editor
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#33 of 45 Old 06-17-2015, 07:37 AM
 
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It's Wednesday!!! At least I hope it is or DS has missed his flight to Indianapolis.

Carry on.....
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#34 of 45 Old 06-17-2015, 07:45 AM - Thread Starter
 
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LOL!!! Edited!
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#35 of 45 Old 06-17-2015, 07:55 AM
 
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It nearly gave me a heart attack when I read throwback Thursday, I thought I had messed up big time!!!!
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#36 of 45 Old 09-28-2015, 10:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Bump. See Post 16 for a response to the Incredible Hulk nonsense.
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#37 of 45 Old 09-28-2015, 12:27 PM
 
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Pers, I'm not sure where you get the idea that my first and second points are in any way connected. They are separately mentioned flaws of an all-too-common argument. I continually hear from pro-vax-schedule people that VAERS lacks credibility because "anyone" can report to it.

With 87%+ of the reports are coming from health care, public health, and pharmaceutical professionals . . . yes, I do think it's a good thing. It means they're ethical, vigilant, and doing their job. Would that more relevant professionals reported to VAERS! It lends more credibility to VAERS than the anyone-can-report critics would have us believe.

My second point questions the "anyone" aspect. Who is this "anyone" that we're not supposed to believe? The mother who watched her daughter faint after a Gardasil dose? The father who was awake in the wee hours because his toddler reacted to that fourth DTaP dose with a febrile seizure?

Dinahx mentioned an online troll who submitted a VAERS report as the Incredible Hulk to prove...to prove what, exactly? That non-physician reporters were as credible as the *In*credible Hulk? That there's a vast conspiracy of non-vaxxers and anti-vaxxers trying to foil the system by crashing it with outrageous false reports? Who knows? The point is that the anyone-can-report people take the patronizing and accusatory assumption that health care consumers are lying when they file a VAERS report. Rather than generalize from a distance, perhaps these nay-sayers could point us to specific reports that they believe are lies?
Very well put! Thank you.
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#38 of 45 Old 09-28-2015, 06:19 PM
 
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The Incredible Hulk report beggars belief.

The CDC states:
Quote:
The Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) is a national program that monitors the safety of vaccines after they are licensed. VAERS is managed by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)
So here we have the government setting up a program to receive reports of AEs in order to monitor the safety of products that the government recommends (or mandates). One might think that their intention was to show its citizenry that "hey we take this seriously and we've got your back".

And then a pro-vaxxer posts a fictitious report to prove what? That the government really isn't doing a good job looking out for the safety of its citizens?

And this encourages people to vaccinate how?
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#39 of 45 Old 09-28-2015, 06:34 PM
 
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The dumping on VAERS is a sign that the pro-vaccine commenting team is out of control. Obviously, if you want people to trust vaccines you try to convince them of the following:

1) Vaccines are safe and problems are rare
2) However, problems do occur (rarely) and the government and the doctors are on top of these problems, know how to spot vaccine reactions, make sure they get counted and that the families involved are supported and eventually compensated and helped.

Instead we get:

1) vaccines are safe and problems are so rare we can pretend they don't exist at all
2) the system we have for counting vaccine reactions doesn't work right and cannot be taken seriously, especially if someone points to high rates of problem reports from a vaccine we are pushing a lot (see HPV).
3) If anyone is stupid enough to try to claim that there was a vaccine reaction we will fight them really hard, etc.

And then these crazies wonder why some parents don't trust vaccines!

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#40 of 45 Old 10-03-2015, 05:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Taximom5 View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by BeckyBird

So why aren't people studied after they suffer reactions? Unless they are, and I'm just missing something?


That's exactly what should happen, particularly the autistic children whose parents reported seizure reactions to vaccines.

Researchers should be approaching the parents and asking for permission to screen the whole family for mitochondrial disorders, for vitamin deficiencies, for autoimmune markers, for signs of inflammation. They should be looking at other environmental factors in those families--does a particular diet predispose towards a vaccine reaction? (Hell, we KNOW formula-fed infants are far more likely to end up with autism diagnoses!) How about living near high-voltage cables or near electricity plants? Is there possibility of heavy metal exposure to the parents, that could have had an effect on the baby in utero?

But what's happened so far is that people with vaccine reactions--with or without autism as a result--are ignored.
Exactly the same system of ignoring reactions has occurred with the HPV vaccines. I think they are hoping that the parents of sick kids will eventually give up and go away.

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#41 of 45 Old 10-13-2015, 11:10 AM
 
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Pers, I'm not sure where you get the idea that my first and second points are in any way connected. They are separately mentioned flaws of an all-too-common argument. I continually hear from pro-vax-schedule people that VAERS lacks credibility because "anyone" can report to it.

With 87%+ of the reports are coming from health care, public health, and pharmaceutical professionals . . . yes, I do think it's a good thing. It means they're ethical, vigilant, and doing their job. Would that more relevant professionals reported to VAERS! It lends more credibility to VAERS than the anyone-can-report critics would have us believe.

My second point questions the "anyone" aspect. Who is this "anyone" that we're not supposed to believe? The mother who watched her daughter faint after a Gardasil dose? The father who was awake in the wee hours because his toddler reacted to that fourth DTaP dose with a febrile seizure?

Dinahx mentioned an online troll who submitted a VAERS report as the Incredible Hulk to prove...to prove what, exactly? That non-physician reporters were as credible as the *In*credible Hulk? That there's a vast conspiracy of non-vaxxers and anti-vaxxers trying to foil the system by crashing it with outrageous false reports? Who knows? The point is that the anyone-can-report people take the patronizing and accusatory assumption that health care consumers are lying when they file a VAERS report. Rather than generalize from a distance, perhaps these nay-sayers could point us to specific reports that they believe are lies?
Very well put! Thank you.

And oops, ancient post brought back up that I never got around to responding too!

Better late than never?

IIRC, I think this was around the time that I was seeing a number float around here that was one-hundred-and-some-number I can't remember deaths from gardasil according to VAERS. So I went and searched VAERS, and sure enough, I got the same number, but then I actually started reading them...

A lot of them were from doctors or parents who were first hand sources. But along with those there were also a few third hand cases of "I heard from another nurse about a patient in their practice," or I think one might have been from a dentist or dental assistant who heard from a patient about a relative or friend? (I can't remember exactly, and not searching again right now). Then there were a few even worse cases of "I saw on the news," or "I read in a magazine about" and even, I believe, one "I saw someone post on the Internet," that were reported to VAERS (I think these were the ones that came with a note that multiple reports were submitted by the same person). There were also a number of cases that seem extremely unlikely to actually be connected to VAERS, such a case where illness that lead to death didn't show up until a year or so after the vaccine, and I distinctly remember one case where the cause of death was falling down a well

And yet, the number found in VAERS was being circulated as if Gardasil had killed each and every one of them, no question about it.

Now, most of the deaths were reported by doctors/parents with first person accounts, and seem possible that Gardasil could have played a part as far as timing goes. But even before Gardasil, people would become mysteriously strangely ill and die on occasion. Sure, it's very rare, but give millions of doses of a saline injection each year over the course of several years and you are going to find a number of these mysterious illnesses and deaths that happen soon after it just by the rule of large numbers.

So yeah, while I roll eyes that the small number of third hand/read about it reports, I believe most people are honestly reporting what they saw, but that doesn't mean cause and effect can be taken as fact in all cases.
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#42 of 45 Old 10-13-2015, 11:25 AM
 
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2) the system we have for counting vaccine reactions doesn't work right and cannot be taken seriously, especially if someone points to high rates of problem reports from a vaccine we are pushing a lot (see HPV).
VAERS is NOT a system for counting vaccine reactions. See my previous response about it's limitations. Just because something is reported to VAERS, even with the majority of reports being honest accounts, doesn't mean it was caused by the vaccine.

This is true even for known side effects. Consider above where I was asked about a mother who saw her daughter faint after Gardasil. Was Gardasil actually the cause? Pretty certainly. Fainting is a known side effect.

But people do faint for other reasons too. I had a friend faint out of nowhere for no known reason (ended up blaming it on it being a pretty hot day, but it wasn't extremely so, and she never did again so long as I knew her) when we were fifteen or sixteen-ish. With no other obvious cause, if Gardasil had been around then and she'd had it that morning, bet we would have been sure of the cause, but really it would have happened anyway!

So, if you were to find and report every single case of fainting after Gardasil, you would know that most of them would have been caused by it, but mixed in there would be a very small number of people who would have fainted anyway, and there is no way to tell for sure which ones those are.

And, as we know, VAERS reporting is not perfect, both with a lot adverse events not being reported and some types of them being more likely to be reported than others.

It is not meant to be a count of how many reactions there are. It is meant to be surveilance of adverse events following vaccination, with serious ones supposed to be followed up on for further information, and unusual patterns serving as a warning flag.

Take rotavirus vaccine and intussusception. Was this problem found from VAERS? I don't actually know, but I suspect it might have been. An unusual number of reports to VAERS following the introduction of the vaccine should have raised a flag that "hey, something might be going on here, we need to look closer at this." That's how it is supposed to work.

VAERS could never have told us that the vaccine was actually causing the intussusception though since intussusception has always happened on rare occasion to infants for no known reason. In order to determine that there was an actual relationship, they had to actually do more research and look at the numbers and compare them to find out that the rate in infants vaccinated for rotavirus was actually meaningfully higher than the background rate of how often it happens.
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#43 of 45 Old 10-13-2015, 02:17 PM
 
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VAERS is NOT a system for counting vaccine reactions.
No one counts, none really happen! See how that works!

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#44 of 45 Old 10-13-2015, 04:05 PM
 
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An unusual number of reports to VAERS following the introduction of the vaccine should have raised a flag that "hey, something might be going on here, we need to look closer at this." That's how it is supposed to work.
Do you know what also works to raise red flags?

Using an inert substance for the control group in the clinical trials instead of using other vaccines or vaccine ingredients.

Quote:
It is not meant to be a count of how many reactions there are. It is meant to be surveilance of adverse events following vaccination, with serious ones supposed to be followed up on for further information, and unusual patterns serving as a warning flag.
Can you give us a reason why reporting by medical personnel is not mandatory following a report of an adverse event? We've read where parents report that doctors have denied that the reaction was due to the vaccine. Pretty doubtful the doctor then reported it to VAERS. If they really wanted to know about reactions, there would be a report for parents to fill out to hand in to their doctor who would then in turn report it and have to give the parent a file number so the parent could follow up. Surely if the police can give you a file number when someone breaks into your car and steals the loose change left on the console a parent is entitled to a file number for something that has happened to their child.

Unfortunately, VAERS doesn't look like it was intended to be a serious attempt at surveillance. It looks more like pretending to do something. But whatever it is or is not, it isn't the fault of the patient or their caregivers. It is the fault of the government. And that's what the eejits (and their admirers) mocking vaccine injured people and making false reports to VAERS are too thick to understand.
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#45 of 45 Old 10-13-2015, 05:02 PM
 
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I wonder how the adverse event reporting system in Japan works?

They withdrew the recommendation for the HPV vaccines because the rate of reaction after these vaccines was noticeably higher than for the other vaccines introduced at the same time.

Apparently coincidences happen more often after HPV. Perhaps that could be turned into an advertisement!

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