Nasal Mist Pertussis Vax coming? - Mothering Forums

 
Thread Tools
#1 of 17 Old 07-09-2013, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
 
emmy526's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,816
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 35 Post(s)

http://www.plospathogens.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.ppat.0020065

 

Quote:

 

To induce strong protective immunity in neonates, we have developed BPZE1, a live attenuated Bordetella pertussis strain to be given as a single-dose nasal vaccine in early life.

applejuice likes this.
emmy526 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
#2 of 17 Old 07-09-2013, 11:59 AM
 
teacozy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Hogwarts
Posts: 2,185
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1065 Post(s)

Sounds promising! Thanks for sharing! smile.gif


“What do you think science is? There's nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. Which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?” ~ Steven Novella
teacozy is offline  
#3 of 17 Old 07-09-2013, 02:58 PM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,346
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)

A nasal mist vaccine would be a live-virus vaccine.  Live virus flu vaccine is contraindicated in infants under 6 months.  I wonder how many cases of pertussis will be caused (and spread) by a live-virus pertussis vaccine.

applejuice likes this.
Taximom5 is offline  
#4 of 17 Old 07-09-2013, 03:13 PM
 
fruitfulmomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Between the Rockies and a Flat Place
Posts: 4,253
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)

That sounds like a swell idea. More live bacteria floating around in the air. Yay! eyesroll.gif

applejuice likes this.
fruitfulmomma is offline  
#5 of 17 Old 07-09-2013, 04:03 PM
 
fruitfulmomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Between the Rockies and a Flat Place
Posts: 4,253
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Quote:
A further concern, as for any live vaccine, is the potential release of the vaccine strain into the environment, and the consequences of such a release. B. pertussis is predominantly a human pathogen, and there is no known animal vector or reservoir. Moreover, unlike B. bronchiseptica, survival of wild-type B. pertussis in the environment is extremely limited [36]. Pertussis is usually spread by coughing individuals, and there appears to be limited asymptomatic carriage [37]. Coughing cannot be assessed in the mouse models used in this study. However, due to the nature of the genetic alterations in BPZE1, in particular the strong reduction of TCT and the genetic inactivation of PTX, this strain would not be expected to induce coughing. Active PTX has been shown to be required for cough induction in a coughing rat model, although the mechanism is not known [38]. If the vaccine strain were nevertheless to be transmitted to non-vaccinated individuals, this would at worst result in increased vaccine coverage. The consequences of each of these potential hazards can thus be graded as negligible and can easily and rapidly be controlled by antibiotic treatment if necessary.

Bolding mine - not okay with this at all. I would hardly call accidental vaccination negligible when pertussis vaccines have a history of some of the worst side effects of them all. Will people who are vaccinated without their consent via air transmission have access to the vaccine courts to sue for damages??? (Yeah, seriously doubt that, just throwing it out there.)

applejuice and BeckyBird like this.
fruitfulmomma is offline  
#6 of 17 Old 07-09-2013, 07:29 PM
 
japonica's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Canada-->Australia
Posts: 1,045
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)

I find the bolded part slightly ironic. Parents who do not vaccinate and whose kids are perceived to be disease spreaders are often vilified by the media and on discussion boards for being irresponsible, dangerous, and a threat to society.

 

Using a live virus vaccine that may potentially infect others necessitating antibiotics apparently has no downsides though because it supposedly means increased vaccine coverage. eyesroll.gif Aside from the degree of potential illness (vaccine vs natural infection) that I'm sure some will argue is a no brainer positive for the vaccine, the issue remains that by using a live virus vaccine with the potential capability to infect others, aren't some parents doing what they criticise other parents for and second, perhaps other families and children don't want to be part of this free "increased vaccine coverage." 


Mother to DD#1  s/b @40w 2003 for unknown reasons; DD#2   10.5 years old; DS  7 years old 
  A personal choice--your son's!
 
 
 
  
japonica is offline  
#7 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 12:27 AM
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,933
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Uhh. It should be noted though it sound be s live bacteria vaccine since b pertussis is a bacteria. Had there ever been a live bacteria vaccine? Not that I know of. I shall read the full text of the link later.
applejuice likes this.
nia82 is offline  
#8 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 03:08 AM
 
fruitfulmomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Between the Rockies and a Flat Place
Posts: 4,253
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)

Uh, yeah you're right. Edited my first post to correct.

applejuice likes this.
fruitfulmomma is offline  
#9 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 03:31 AM
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,933
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry for typos. Darn phone!
nia82 is offline  
#10 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 04:14 AM
 
Taximom5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,346
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Canine bordetella (bordetella bronchiseptica) is usually give to dogs as nasal mist.
applejuice likes this.
Taximom5 is offline  
#11 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 07:29 AM
 
fruitfulmomma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Between the Rockies and a Flat Place
Posts: 4,253
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 44 Post(s)
Quote:
To reduce the incidence of pertussis in the very young and most vulnerable age groups, early immunization, possibly at birth, would thus be highly desirable.

 

So then we are to understand that the goal of this project is to get it into the hands of nurses on the l&d floor so newborns can be vaxxed immediately at birth. And it is live and they admit that it could spread, resulting in forced vaccination of an unwilling (and possibly at-risk/contraindicated) patient and/or symptoms requiring antibiotics. And pertussis is most deadly in children at this age. This doesn't at all sound like a disaster in the making to me. duh.gif

fruitfulmomma is offline  
#12 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 12:55 PM
 
mama24-7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: with the dust bunnies
Posts: 2,600
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 55 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by fruitfulmomma View Post

 

So then we are to understand that the goal of this project is to get it into the hands of nurses on the l&d floor so newborns can be vaxxed immediately at birth. And it is live and they admit that it could spread, resulting in forced vaccination of an unwilling (and possibly at-risk/contraindicated) patient and/or symptoms requiring antibiotics. And pertussis is most deadly in children at this age. This doesn't at all sound like a disaster in the making to me. duh.gif

One more reason NOT to birth in a hospital.

 

Sus

applejuice likes this.

Baby the babies while they're babies so they don't need babying for a lifetime.
mama24-7 is offline  
#13 of 17 Old 07-10-2013, 11:08 PM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom (have lived previously in the USA).
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Sounds like really great news to me (although if still in animal studies many years off being implemented). Given most pertussis deaths are in newborns, being able to protect newborns from this diseases is fantastic.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences). Vaccines save lives.
prosciencemum is online now  
#14 of 17 Old 07-12-2013, 08:46 AM
 
dinahx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: earth
Posts: 2,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Right but what about newborns in the hospital whose parents choose not to get a live vaccine> Could L&D floors become a place an infant is LIKELY to catch pertussis if his parents choose not to have them get a totally new vaccine that is essentially in a stage 4 trial?

BeckyBird and kathymuggle like this.
dinahx is offline  
#15 of 17 Old 07-12-2013, 11:41 AM
 
prosciencemum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: United Kingdom (have lived previously in the USA).
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
This vaccine seems very far from release so a bit of a straw man to get upset about.

It'd be weakened version of pertussis designed to trigger an immune response without making you sick - that's how vaccines work - so extremely unlikely to spread actual pertussis.

Mother of two living in UK. Daughter (2007) born in USA, son (2010) born here. I'm pro natural birth, midwife care, breastfeeding, co-sleeping, baby wearing and a keen advocate of cloth diapering. I'm a full time working research scientist (physical sciences). Vaccines save lives.
prosciencemum is online now  
#16 of 17 Old 07-12-2013, 11:54 AM
 
dinahx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: earth
Posts: 2,062
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)

Okay, can we understand @ this point that we ALL understand how vaccines 'work' in this forum? :head desk:

 

I am not upset, I was just seeing your 'excitement' and raising you a 'concern'.

 

OPV and FluMist are both known to occasionally spread the disease they 'attenuate' and are not allowed to be given around the immunocompromised. If there is any place you find the 'immunocompromised' it is an L&D ward . . . 

dinahx is offline  
#17 of 17 Old 07-12-2013, 01:53 PM
 
minerva23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: down by the riverside
Posts: 590
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 27 Post(s)
Quote:
A further concern, as for any live vaccine, is the potential release of the vaccine strain into the environment, and the consequences of such a release. B. pertussis is predominantly a human pathogen, and there is no known animal vector or reservoir. Moreover, unlike B. bronchiseptica, survival of wild-type B. pertussis in the environment is extremely limited [36]. Pertussis is usually spread by coughing individuals, and there appears to be limited asymptomatic carriage [37]. Coughing cannot be assessed in the mouse models used in this study. However, due to the nature of the genetic alterations in BPZE1, in particular the strong reduction of TCT and the genetic inactivation of PTX, this strain would not be expected to induce coughing. Active PTX has been shown to be required for cough induction in a coughing rat model, although the mechanism is not known [38]. If the vaccine strain were nevertheless to be transmitted to non-vaccinated individuals, this would at worst result in increased vaccine coverage. The consequences of each of these potential hazards can thus be graded as negligible and can easily and rapidly be controlled by antibiotic treatment if necessary.

OT: highlighted mine in red

 

What the heck is a coughing rat model? Can rats cough?

 

And NO this live vaccine does not sound good at all. Would it be a whole-cell-vaccine since it is a live vaccine? What about the side effects esp. neurological ones since that was mainly the reason the whole-cell-vaccine was taken off the market in the industrialized nations?

 

And it is also another B. pertussis vaccine - what about the culprit responsible for all the outbreaks recently - I would have thought the next vax to come out would be a B. parapertussis covering one. Does anybody here have news on that?

applejuice and BeckyBird like this.

“The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
―Socrates

minerva23 is offline  
Reply


User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Online Users: 15,472

140 members and 15,332 guests
1babysmom , 1blueheron , 1love4ever , 4thtimemama , A&A , acupuncturemomma , agilesheltie , Ajbaby , AlaskAnne , angeebaby , autumngrey , AvitalHirschhorn , bananabee , BarefootBrooke , bexbex , blissful_maia , bluefaery , bren94 , Brittee , bruna , carnelianlight , chickabiddy , chkpea , Chloe'sMama , chuord , clar5108 , cocoheart , crittersmom , curiouscelestial , Daffodil , Dawn's mom , easttowest , elliha , ErinMomma , erratum , ess3 , frugalmama , funfunkyfantastic , FyerFly , gooseberry , gorgorita , greenemami , happydaze , happymamasallie , Havingababy1 , heyxxmcfly , hillymum , hopeful22 , ian'smommaya , Iron Princess , JayaSky , jojobean , joycef , junipermuse , katelove , Katie8681 , l3anne25 , Leelee577 , LeLuna , lightheartedmom , lilgreen , lilmissgiggles , LiLStar , Linda on the move , loba , maia71 , mama2004 , MamaLeti , mamamargo , mariamadly , maryeb , micaelvis , Michelle42 , Milk8shake , Mirzam , MissMuffet , mommyhood , Monk Monk , monkeyscience , moominmamma , MylittleTiger , neenamommy , Nemi27 , newmamalizzy , oaksie68 , Peony , philomom , prosciencemum , Proxi , pumabearclan , rcb215 , RollerCoasterMama , RosemaryV , rubelin , salr , samaxtics , sarafl , Selena Hoffman , shantimama , Shmootzi , sidrajedi , simmy1 , smilingprego , Smokering , sofreshsoclean , springersw , Springshowers , stegenrae , SummerStorm22 , Swolemates , TBallman , TheBugsMomma , thtr4me , Tigerle , Tracy , TrishWSU , Turner58800 , typebug , Viola P , wassernixe , WhiteRose , Wild Rose
Most users ever online was 449,755, 06-25-2014 at 12:21 PM.